New projects in Monroe North

[Guest]

I agree it looks really good from the ground floor.  I like the spiral lighting fixtures that hang down.  Also, that stone wrapped fountain has a pretty cool fire element to it that I saw them working on the other day.

I was curious as to when they are opening......  

Quote

Embassy Suites by Hilton Grand Rapids Downtown will be open soon. We're accepting reservation for arrivals on or after 18 Apr 2019.

 

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I've driven by a couple of times in the last week and it looks pretty awesome. The lobby is top notch, and I think it's going to bring a lot of traffic to the area. It also looks like it'll have a lot of meeting space. It's a pretty impressive development.

I think I counted 57 TVs.  The outdoor patio should be pretty nice in the summer.

Joe

Oh man I thought it was 58. I'm going to have to go back and count... 

[organsnyder]

13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Oh man I thought it was 58. I'm going to have to go back and count... 

Just because one TV was showing footage of a crane doesn't mean you get to count it twice.

[joeDowntown]

Noticed a sign for white water cafe at Embassy Suites. Turns out, this is a new project from Rowsters. Should be a good addition for that area!

Joe

[GRDadof3]

30 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

Noticed a sign for white water cafe at Embassy Suites. Turns out, this is a new project from Rowsters. Should be a good addition for that area!

Joe

They're hiring Joe!

Ribbon cutting for the hotel April 11th:

https://www.grandrapids.org/business-services/ribbon-cuttings/ribbon-cutting-embassy-suites-by-hilton-grand-rapids-downtown/

Some picture of the inside:

https://www.facebook.com/EmbassySuitesGR/posts/2087317361315305?__xts__[0]=68.ARCgRpngUTHORyKEKHdYLr0qceH_RPdMlPAfXNaxlxI-0tngVFDeL7IM4Pq81ItMvnUxPKs4jLNpKxErEQxy8j800PUkj4kyRByMkuHEwgm2kEmOTKkVkNBynqX3iUE85cHtrxv4_bi1889f_KlcPdW-S2Z9eoLCnUwj-8HxiqkrScefUebtB2CyPRJUhiaxdOfu8SFLVuViYvl02er-l0WXJm1vHabtDjdzBqM6xxKj9tvf9uIM5PKDZw2hlL_mZAOhwmLx0Fh2QNPJ4VzrnIsxyyyUDNw7O-CGXEpUIDPvbpcD3tF4SJiWxCNTOUhvhfVMgPynzLI58pIc9yNe49GGkGkC8aFDdmlSfPkBlv0dhwgUyOf4RECknOwUX9x8jMk56t0Hz-6NSXWftWNyLq7aRHPgHVzGcwgjtxJFhIJbyhItTtX1iekAT9QMls79WDKE5qAsyqdfueDNLXaXhozEpw0PImSTA3BXppyGo5KVoArsQVXQ3EOHzV9CH6jOnk9Wn-iiEL_J5zHCVzUx7pLXvjW3qjg6B7oQWijPI_DS2-7DGDRSmSNbL1OK9KY10B7f0fZG6ZPEUg&__tn__=-R

 

[Winston1206]

3 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Noticed a sign for white water cafe at Embassy Suites. Turns out, this is a new project from Rowsters. Should be a good addition for that area!

Joe

That's a great addition! Do you have a source that it's a Rowster project? I can't find anything about it online. On the Embassy Suites website they list the "Sixth Street Bridge Coffee Shop". 

[EastownLeo]

2 hours ago, Winston1206 said:

That's a great addition! Do you have a source that it's a Rowster project? I can't find anything about it online. On the Embassy Suites website they list the "Sixth Street Bridge Coffee Shop". 

 

[GR_Urbanist]

Maybe with the residential + hotel population in the area now, maybe some convenience retail can finally come to the area?

I know I always appreciated in DC, Seattle, and NYC having little CVS type stores that are just a short walk in well-lit and populated places that stayed open late. Staying in a hotel where you have to drive for the simplest stuff seems like a chore for an out-of-towner that may not have rented a car.

 

I suppose there is the Old North Boundary strip mall, but maybe not someplace I would want to walk to at night in a strange city.

[GR8scott]

4 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Maybe with the residential + hotel population in the area now, maybe some convenience retail can finally come to the area?

I know I always appreciated in DC, Seattle, and NYC having little CVS type stores that are just a short walk in well-lit and populated places that stayed open late. Staying in a hotel where you have to drive for the simplest stuff seems like a chore for an out-of-towner that may not have rented a car.

 

I suppose there is the Old North Boundary strip mall, but maybe not someplace I would want to walk to at night in a strange city.

I have been saying for years downtown needs a cvs/Walgreens/7-11/circle k ect. Like many large cities have on just about every corner, honestly with the amount of hotel, residential and office now I’m sure downtown could easily support 2 or 3 of them

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Maybe with the residential + hotel population in the area now, maybe some convenience retail can finally come to the area?

I know I always appreciated in DC, Seattle, and NYC having little CVS type stores that are just a short walk in well-lit and populated places that stayed open late. Staying in a hotel where you have to drive for the simplest stuff seems like a chore for an out-of-towner that may not have rented a car.

 

I suppose there is the Old North Boundary strip mall, but maybe not someplace I would want to walk to at night in a strange city.

That parcel at the South end of 820 Monroe (where there was going to be a restaurant) would be great for that. I mean perfect. It would even have parking behind the building. Heck, if they insisted on a drive through you could probably squeeze one in. 

[joeDowntown]

Third Coast wants to turn the Display Pak building on Monroe into affordable housing:

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/developers-seek-tax-credits-to-transform-grand-rapids-industrial-building

Joe

[GRDadof3]

13 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Third Coast wants to turn the Display Pak building on Monroe into affordable housing:

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/developers-seek-tax-credits-to-transform-grand-rapids-industrial-building

Joe

They call it "mixed income" but it's not, it sounds like it's 100% income restricted units, all 310 of them. 

I hope the city tells them they have to literally mix it up: 1/2 income restricted 1/2 market rate (or some similar ratio). 

[MJLO]

49 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

They call it "mixed income" but it's not, it sounds like it's 100% income restricted units, all 310 of them. 

I hope the city tells them they have to literally mix it up: 1/2 income restricted 1/2 market rate (or some similar ratio). 

I hope they go through with this.  This is really the first big project announcement in a while.  It's more  dead space being turned into living spaces.  More infill, more density.  The city needs to keep moving forward

[ironyisadeadscene]

6 minutes ago, MJLO said:

I hope they go through with this.  This is really the first big project announcement in a while.  It's more  dead space being turned into living spaces.  More infill, more density.  The city needs to keep moving forward

This would really extend the vibrancy of North Monroe. Maybe light rail down Monroe that can transport people from here to the BOB with stops in between to connect everything? I can dream, right?

[GR_Urbanist]

It is certainly located in a highly under-rated area between Riverside Park and DT (N.Monroe)

Putting that many people down there, even if some of the units are more of these rent restricted deals, will certainly support retail options from Ann St. to the south, and could facilitate at least a DASH bus if the need arises.

 

The 250 space parking lot is a bit too much of a punt even though this isnt a central city location. I'd rather see Monroe lined with townhouses to block the parking from view. I cant really tell what the full plans are from the rendering in the article.

Edited April 9, 2019 by GR_Urbanist

[whitemice]

21 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

nd could facilitate at least a DASH bus if the need arises.

The DASH bus is already right there, across Leonard.  Also not far from the RAPID#11 or the interstate.  The RAPID#7 is an easy walk.  Plus there are already bike lanes. This is an excellent location for lots of housing.
Very excited to see 310 housing units ... 250 parking spaces; very much a move in the right direction.

Aside: this is on my daily commute, I pass it 2 - 4 times a day. It is a big blank space, I personally look forward to having something potentially useful there.

[GRDadof3]

Am I the only one who doesn't think these should all be income-restricted? That's locked in for 30 years. I don't think any of us could get into that place if we wanted to, assuming 60% of the local AMI (or about $23,000/year in household income).  Besides the fact that it's 310 households with no disposable income. 

[MJLO]

15 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think these should all be income-restricted? That's locked in for 30 years. I don't think any of us could get into that place if we wanted to, assuming 60% of the local AMI (or about $23,000/year in household income).  Besides the fact that it's 310 households with no disposable income. 

Do you think it's a sign that market rate demand has cooled off for them moment?   I think it'll be mid-2020ish before all the new inventory gets absorbed. 

As an aside perhaps this will motivate the DeVries to upgrade that 1980s hack job of an office  conversion they own across the street 

[GRDadof3]

15 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Do you think it's a sign that market rate demand has cooled off for them moment?   I think it'll be mid-2020ish before all the new inventory gets absorbed. 

As an aside perhaps this will motivate the DeVries to upgrade that 1980s hack job of an office  conversion they own across the street 

No I think LIHTC pays better to the developer.  ie, the projects are more profitable. 

[thebeerqueer]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think these should all be income-restricted? That's locked in for 30 years. I don't think any of us could get into that place if we wanted to, assuming 60% of the local AMI (or about $23,000/year in household income).  Besides the fact that it's 310 households with no disposable income. 

Nope, I'm right there with you. Some of the more exciting projects currently going up have a mix of income restricted and market rate housing. I feel like for such a large project making the whole thing income restricted sets it up for long range problems (even though it may be more profitable for developers). I'm sure the ICCF could provide lots of data/reports of mixed income housing being beneficial versus all income restricted. 

[Prankster]

4 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think these should all be income-restricted? That's locked in for 30 years. I don't think any of us could get into that place if we wanted to, assuming 60% of the local AMI (or about $23,000/year in household income).  Besides the fact that it's 310 households with no disposable income. 

Having all income restricted housing does nothing for a building. Isn’t that what the high rise projects that were reviled and tore down in larger cities, to be replaced by mixed income developments, were?

[MJLO]

25 minutes ago, Prankster said:

Having all income restricted housing does nothing for a building. Isn’t that what the high rise projects that were reviled and tore down in larger cities, to be replaced by mixed income developments, were?

Those were Section 8 public housing.  They were/ are administered by HUD.   Section 8 housing still exists  albeit in less brutalist form.  I believe the development near Division and Delaware is section 8.  I think I will need to be corrected on the proper application of this but I believe some private owners can participate in renting through the program in the form of a voucher system.   But it's highly regulated by the government and there is little to no say on what tenants can move in. 

LIHTC  are run by private developers and they are allowed  a small level of discretion on their tenant base.  LIHTC residents can be as much college students, or low income earning adults, as they can be impoverished families.  In my experience the resident bases living in LIHTC  were more trendy young urban adult types finishing college ect.

[GRDadof3]

9 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Those were Section 8 public housing.  They were/ are administered by HUD.   Section 8 housing still exists  albeit in less brutalist form.  I believe the development near Division and Delaware is section 8.  I think I will need to be corrected on the proper application of this but I believe some private owners can participate in renting through the program in the form of a voucher system.   But it's highly regulated by the government and there is little to no say on what tenants can move in. 

LIHTC  are run by private developers and they are allowed  a small level of discretion on their tenant base.  LIHTC residents can be as much college students, or low income earning adults, as they can be impoverished families.  In my experience the resident bases living in LIHTC  were more trendy young urban adult types finishing college ect.

It doesn't really matter to me what their employment status is or whether they're students or not, what matters to me (and has been shown in many studies) is that you need a healthy mix of income levels. Most college students do not have incomes to support local retailers, restaurants, etc..  And seriously, once you get out of college or start working in a skilled trade, you very quickly bust the $23,000/year level. I think the average food server makes $18,000 - $23,000 a year. I was a food server in college, I was broke. The only thing I spent money on was school and cheap beer. 

[MJLO]

12 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

It doesn't really matter to me what their employment status is or whether they're students or not, what matters to me (and has been shown in many studies) is that you need a healthy mix of income levels. Most college students do not have incomes to support local retailers, restaurants, etc..  And seriously, once you get out of college or start working in a skilled trade, you very quickly bust the $23,000/year level. I think the average food server makes $18,000 - $23,000 a year. I was a food server in college, I was broke. The only thing I spent money on was school and cheap beer. 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I think you make good points.  I was just pointing out the differences between Cabrini Green and say the Klingman Lofts.   

I also think you are right about the profitability end of it.  My concern is that if the tax credits are taken away developers will simply stop renovating/building in the city until market rate developments produce the same returns.   Almost all of the current construction is coming out of the 2014-16 announcement boom.   From everything I can see there will be a significant drop off in activity come the 2nd half of 2020-21.   The city is still attracting educated professionals at the same rate it has been, I don't see that changing with additional income restricted units planned.  I understand that a 300 unit conversion to LIHTC will like move the needle in that area very little.  At the same time it helps sustain local construction jobs ect.  Unless you are aware of more projects in the pipeline. 

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, MJLO said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I think you make good points.  I was just pointing out the differences between Cabrini Green and say the Klingman Lofts.   

I also think you are right about the profitability end of it.  My concern is that if the tax credits are taken away developers will simply stop renovating/building in the city until market rate developments produce the same returns.   Almost all of the current construction is coming out of the 2014-16 announcement boom.   From everything I can see there will be a significant drop off in activity come the 2nd half of 2020-21.   The city is still attracting educated professionals at the same rate it has been, I don't see that changing with additional income restricted units planned.  I understand that a 300 unit conversion to LIHTC will like move the needle in that area very little.  At the same time it helps sustain local construction jobs ect.  Unless you are aware of more projects in the pipeline. 

I don't think my short term wish to see more construction projects should usurp the overall long-term health of the community.  Plus, if you do a project with LIHTC and market rate split, you can still capture some of the tax credits. The city should actually make it a mandate. In other bigger cities, and even in Boulder and Madison WI, it's the other way around: developers are being forced to include affordable housing at a certain percentage. Here we haven't quite ripened that much on the market rate side, so developers use the LIHTC to help pad their pro-forma's.  Something's not right if it's more profitable to build low income housing than market rate housing, by getting government subsidies/kickbacks. 

We're talking these projects being locked into income restricted for 30 years, no ifs, ands or buts down the road. What if higher paid professionals in 10 years way outnumber the low income people (which should be a goal of the city anyway, smdh), all the new ones will have to venture out to the burbs because there won't be anything for them. I'm already hearing some of that now, that the pickings for the middle incomes are very slim in the city.