GRDadof3

New projects in Monroe North

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9 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Those were Section 8 public housing.  They were/ are administered by HUD.   Section 8 housing still exists  albeit in less brutalist form.  I believe the development near Division and Delaware is section 8.  I think I will need to be corrected on the proper application of this but I believe some private owners can participate in renting through the program in the form of a voucher system.   But it's highly regulated by the government and there is little to no say on what tenants can move in. 

LIHTC  are run by private developers and they are allowed  a small level of discretion on their tenant base.  LIHTC residents can be as much college students, or low income earning adults, as they can be impoverished families.  In my experience the resident bases living in LIHTC  were more trendy young urban adult types finishing college ect.

It doesn't really matter to me what their employment status is or whether they're students or not, what matters to me (and has been shown in many studies) is that you need a healthy mix of income levels. Most college students do not have incomes to support local retailers, restaurants, etc..  And seriously, once you get out of college or start working in a skilled trade, you very quickly bust the $23,000/year level. I think the average food server makes $18,000 - $23,000 a year. I was a food server in college, I was broke. The only thing I spent money on was school and cheap beer. 

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12 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

It doesn't really matter to me what their employment status is or whether they're students or not, what matters to me (and has been shown in many studies) is that you need a healthy mix of income levels. Most college students do not have incomes to support local retailers, restaurants, etc..  And seriously, once you get out of college or start working in a skilled trade, you very quickly bust the $23,000/year level. I think the average food server makes $18,000 - $23,000 a year. I was a food server in college, I was broke. The only thing I spent money on was school and cheap beer. 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I think you make good points.  I was just pointing out the differences between Cabrini Green and say the Klingman Lofts.   

I also think you are right about the profitability end of it.  My concern is that if the tax credits are taken away developers will simply stop renovating/building in the city until market rate developments produce the same returns.   Almost all of the current construction is coming out of the 2014-16 announcement boom.   From everything I can see there will be a significant drop off in activity come the 2nd half of 2020-21.   The city is still attracting educated professionals at the same rate it has been, I don't see that changing with additional income restricted units planned.  I understand that a 300 unit conversion to LIHTC will like move the needle in that area very little.  At the same time it helps sustain local construction jobs ect.  Unless you are aware of more projects in the pipeline. 

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3 hours ago, MJLO said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I think you make good points.  I was just pointing out the differences between Cabrini Green and say the Klingman Lofts.   

I also think you are right about the profitability end of it.  My concern is that if the tax credits are taken away developers will simply stop renovating/building in the city until market rate developments produce the same returns.   Almost all of the current construction is coming out of the 2014-16 announcement boom.   From everything I can see there will be a significant drop off in activity come the 2nd half of 2020-21.   The city is still attracting educated professionals at the same rate it has been, I don't see that changing with additional income restricted units planned.  I understand that a 300 unit conversion to LIHTC will like move the needle in that area very little.  At the same time it helps sustain local construction jobs ect.  Unless you are aware of more projects in the pipeline. 

I don't think my short term wish to see more construction projects should usurp the overall long-term health of the community. :) Plus, if you do a project with LIHTC and market rate split, you can still capture some of the tax credits. The city should actually make it a mandate. In other bigger cities, and even in Boulder and Madison WI, it's the other way around: developers are being forced to include affordable housing at a certain percentage. Here we haven't quite ripened that much on the market rate side, so developers use the LIHTC to help pad their pro-forma's.  Something's not right if it's more profitable to build low income housing than market rate housing, by getting government subsidies/kickbacks. 

We're talking these projects being locked into income restricted for 30 years, no ifs, ands or buts down the road. What if higher paid professionals in 10 years way outnumber the low income people (which should be a goal of the city anyway, smdh), all the new ones will have to venture out to the burbs because there won't be anything for them. I'm already hearing some of that now, that the pickings for the middle incomes are very slim in the city. 

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On 4/10/2019 at 4:30 PM, GRDadof3 said:

I don't think my short term wish to see more construction projects should usurp the overall long-term health of the community. :) Plus, if you do a project with LIHTC and market rate split, you can still capture some of the tax credits. The city should actually make it a mandate. In other bigger cities, and even in Boulder and Madison WI, it's the other way around: developers are being forced to include affordable housing at a certain percentage. Here we haven't quite ripened that much on the market rate side, so developers use the LIHTC to help pad their pro-forma's.  Something's not right if it's more profitable to build low income housing than market rate housing, by getting government subsidies/kickbacks. 

We're talking these projects being locked into income restricted for 30 years, no ifs, ands or buts down the road. What if higher paid professionals in 10 years way outnumber the low income people (which should be a goal of the city anyway, smdh), all the new ones will have to venture out to the burbs because there won't be anything for them. I'm already hearing some of that now, that the pickings for the middle incomes are very slim in the city. 

The project is a 50/50 mix with market rate and LIHTC and some commercial.

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7 hours ago, Dj Augustine said:

The project is a 50/50 mix with market rate and LIHTC and some commercial.

Great to hear! Thanks for the intel! 

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On 4/10/2019 at 5:30 PM, GRDadof3 said:

.:)  Plus, if you do a project with LIHTC and market rate split, you can still capture some of the tax credits. The city should actually make it a mandate. In other bigger cities, and even in Boulder and Madison WI, it's the other way around: developers are being forced to include affordable housing at a certain percentage. 

Mandating a percentage of affordable housing in a development is also known as "inclusionary zoning."   While i also think it sounds like a great idea,  it is  illegal in the state of Michigan.  State law would need to change to have something like in Boulder. 

Also, from   what i understand with the point system that is used to allocate LIHTC grants, it is MUCH easier for a developer to do 40 units of low income all in one building than to do a mix of low income and market rate.  It sound like this is one of the few projects where that extra effort was put in.

 

 

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13 hours ago, uncus said:

Mandating a percentage of affordable housing in a development is also known as "inclusionary zoning."   While i also think it sounds like a great idea,  it is  illegal in the state of Michigan.  State law would need to change to have something like in Boulder. 

Also, from   what i understand with the point system that is used to allocate LIHTC grants, it is MUCH easier for a developer to do 40 units of low income all in one building than to do a mix of low income and market rate.  It sound like this is one of the few projects where that extra effort was put in.

 

 

Inclusionary zoning can't be mandatory (right now anyway), but it can be part of incentive packages doled out by the city. And usually LIHTC projects also layer up with other incentives like Brownfield, etc. that have to be approved by the city. 

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