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Tayfromcarolina

Brier Creek in Raleigh

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I took a drive past the Brier Creek area in extreme northwest Raleigh yesterday. I think that for the most part that the area there is growing in a great direction. There are already tons of stores with more coming. Including a Target Greatland, Dicks sporting goods, and Superwalmart. Also great resturants such as Red Robin, Jonny Carrinoes, and Soon the new Carolina Ale house.

Also I noticed there is a midrise coming on the left hand side of highway 70 coming from the city. I think this area has great potential for future growth. Hopefully all will be planned with consideration to the needs of the community. There are murmerings of an elementary school in the works. :lol:

Also has anyone seen that huge structure off of T.W. Alexander and Highway 70. It's brick with bright orange and yellow paint. I think it's some kind of Go-Cart, golfing andRecreational center, similar to a Adventure landing or Celebration Station. Anyone else seen it?

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it sorta reminds me of a poorly planned version of ballantyne in south charlotte. both are new, extremely upscale districts located far from any urban center. i think briar creek is about 18 miles from downtown raleigh. there isnt even bus service there yet.

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it sorta reminds me of a poorly planned version of ballantyne in south charlotte. both are new, extremely upscale districts located far from any urban center. i think briar creek is about 18 miles from downtown raleigh. there isnt even bus service there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the urban sprawl nazis should really like this one. I think that the best sprawl for the Triangle area is to fill inward towards its center (the area around RTP between Raleigh and Durham). I'm not, however, anti-sprawl either so growth in any direction is ok with me (though I do favor growing up rather than out).

I have yet to get to ballantyne in CLT, how is it planned?

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Brier Creek isn't bad for a boom town. The main shopping area actually has a very nice layout with more of a traditonal street grid in its center. it's a work in progress, though.

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I know it does very well for Raleigh, but basically it's just big box sprawl. There's a Super Wal-Mart on one side, Target Greatland on the other with a country club right outside the outerbelt. BTW- It's certainly not 18 miles from DT Raleigh. It's 9 miles, 18 miles and you'd be in Durham. But anyway, some people will love it and some people will say "just another sprawlburb." :)

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I spend a lot of time in Brier Creek, as I work just down Alexander on the other side of Miami Blvd. There are a huge number of stores and restaurants there--it is insane.

Brier Creek is a big disappointment IMO. For one thing the retail component is split across a very busy major divided road (US70/Glenwood Ave), and traffic is horrible. Forget being a pedestrian--the only sane way to utilize both sections is to get in your car, choose one of the 50 lanes available, then sit with everyone else spewing hydrocarbons into the atmosphere at a long traffic light so you can go less than a quarter mile. Niiiice!

Most of the shopping center isn't even visible from the roads or sidewalks (what few exist)--especially the long side of the western section (the largest portion), so it doesn't really integrate at all with the surroundings.

All the residential components are separated from the shopping center to the point that they might as well not even share the name "Brier Creek". It really is just an embryotic Ballantyne.

The development is entirely automobile-centric. Try walking around that development--very high stress and inconvenient. It offers absolutely nothing more than any other strip mall with cookie cutter crap surrounding it--it is simply more of the same. Only its layout is different--which gives it a "wow this is so neato!" impression to first time visitors safely strapped into their cars. Once you leave the place, the only thing that comes to mind is "wow, what a monster."

Brier Creek could've been so much more--it could've been a "town center" for a new edge city (not really an "edge" though when you consider the nature of the metro area). It could've really changed the pattern of development. Instead it is just a supersized version of the same old crap. And instead of having an giant open ocean sized parking lot, the parking lot is filled with standalone buildings, so it gives this fake grid feeling, but really just makes it more overwhelming for someone who is on foot.

I do support the idea of containing the sprawl within the core counties, and Brier Creek is smack in the middle of the metro area. I can deal with growth in areas like this because they just take advantage of land that is already defined by two urban centers.

On the other hand, I don't like the sprawl that's taking place in eastern Wake, Johnston County, etc--they are doing nothing but pushing the metro area farther out. Fortunately there is a HUGE quantity of undeveloped land in the defined MSA, so I doubt the Triangle will gain any more official land area for quite a while. This makes our density numbers look better.

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I'll start off by saying that I've never been to Brier Creek, since I don't have a car and the bus doesn't go there. The people who designed the place probably don't care, but I know they've lost at least one potential customer because of that.

Something that I've noticed in the Triangle is that rather than having density fall off as you move away from the urban center of the region, it actually increases.

In particular, take a look at Cary. Inside the Maynard "Beltline," it's a surprisingly well layed-out, organic, and pleasant town of mostly single-family homes. Between Maynard and the Cary Parkway "Outer Beltline" you find a lot more apartment complexes, closely packed starter homes, and cookie cutter subdivisions. Once you're outside of Cary Parkway, in particular along the NC55 corridor, you'll be startled by how dense things get. At every single intersection with a stoplight you'll find a strip mall under construction, to be anchored by a Harris Teeter, each with parking lots of enormous proportions. In between, there are huge numbers of 3 to 4-story, half-completed 500+ unit apartment complexes and fields of snout-garage townhomes completely isolated from everything (EXCEPT the din of the highway) with crappy sidewalks and one point of entry.

IBruton raises a valid point; anyone can see that Raleigh, Cary, and Durham are going to sprawl together at some point. At the rate we're paving it over, however, I predict that all the land will be gone within a decade (I kid you not. Go for a drive on NC55 and see what you think.) I think that's a bit too fast.

Things might be somewhat less bleak if there were something to provide some structure and a real focal point to some of that development. Something more significant than the Super Wal-Mart at Brier Creek or a farm-to-market road on steroids (NC55).

Something like, say, the TTA rail line?

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BTW- It's certainly not 18 miles from DT Raleigh.  It's 9 miles, 18 miles and you'd be in Durham.

Actually if you take Glenwood into downtown from Brier Creek, it is right around 15 miles. Air miles may be less, but on the asphault it is bit longer.

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Actually if you take Glenwood into downtown from Brier Creek, it is right around 15 miles. Air miles may be less, but on the asphault it is bit longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

true...

I think one more thing you have to keep in mind with Brier Creek's comparisions to Ballantyne is that Ballantyne doesn't have any large power centers. Ballantyne has two main shopping centers and a few strip centers but that's about it, there's nothing 'super' and the Target is just a regular target in Ballantyne. If you want a power center you'd have to get on the freeway and drive a few miles to Pineville (Carolina Pavillion, The Centrum) or Matthews (Sycamore Commons, Windsor Square).

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I know it does very well for Raleigh, but basically it's just big box sprawl.  There's a Super Wal-Mart on one side, Target Greatland on the other with a country club right outside the outerbelt. BTW- It's certainly not 18 miles from DT Raleigh.  It's 9 miles, 18 miles and you'd be in Durham. But anyway, some people will love it and some people will say "just another sprawlburb." :)

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Whatchamacallit is actually right. There's no way its only 9 miles from downtown. It's more like 15 miles. I've driven up there many times via Glenwood Ave and Glenwood goes in a straight line. Also, that area is where Raleigh and Durham almost meet lol. Just go 3 more miles down 70 lol.

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Where is Brier Creek?

Is that the really nice subdivsion(if thats what ya want to call it) over on the NW side of Raleigh off of the new beltline, with the golf course? Then there is a huge strip mall of restaurants and stores mostly for the people living in the subdivision? If thats it I have been there. I went a little over 1 year ago when the shopping area was being built. There was just a few stores at that time. It really looked as if it was going to be sprawlly to me.

I did not like it. Raleigh is building the same things everywhere. I am so sick of it! We have the same things on every intersection. It just goes on forever and ever. I would not live in Brier Creek for anything. My choice would be downtown Raleigh or in the country. I currently live in Fuquay Varina, which sadly is growing like a vine. I do not live in a subdivision though. (I hate them) They are building all around me though. I live kinda between Fuquay and Holly Springs. At least it kind of still looks like the country....not for long though. Fuquay Varina and Holly Springs and Cary is the fastest growing area in the state!

Anyone want to see some real sprawl? Jump on 401 and drive through Fuquay Varina. Especially if you have not been here in like 5 years. The traffic during rush hour is off the charts. There are so many people driving back into Fuquay from work at one time that the traffic goes nowhere. There is already serious traffic issues here. I can't imagine what they are going to do to solve this. The roads are all 2 lane in Fuquay with the exception of 401. With the population boom there is going to be real problems in 5-10 years. I can't imagine what they will do to solve this. The DOT did turn 55 into a 4 lane road over to Holly Springs. But it only turns into a 4 lane once you get a mile west of Fuquay Varina. It's going to be interesting to say the least.

Imagine this....start on 401(Capitol) in Wake Forest and drive south to Harnett County. There is only one small space on that stretch that has not been built up. That strectch is only like 2 miles. From Wake Tech to the Food Lion at the Fuquay city limits sign. We are talking 30 or more miles of sprawl going down one highway. :wacko:

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Raleigh's suburban sprawl is a mess, I hate it. It pivots everything on these crowded multilane surface routes and nothing is well integrated with the surroundings.

Bear in mind that Raleigh's sprawl looks nice--it isn't run down or architectually ugly... it is "classy" most of the time. The problem is the scale and the infrastructure.

Inside the Beltline is the only really neat area of Raleigh IMO (fortunately it covers a lot of ground). Parts of west Raleigh (Rex Hospital area) aren't too shabby either. Once you get out to Crabtree Valley as well as anywhere north or east of the Beltline, I cringe.

Cary is a sprawling mess for sure, but I like how a lot of it is smaller scale and integrated better. Granted it is still a mess, but I think their planning is superior to most of which found in Raleigh. Despite Cary's ~116k population, it has the feeling of a smaller town because of the convenience model they use.

If Raleigh's mess was accessible by more than just a car, it would be fantastic.

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Raleigh is an example of what not to do. I can't believe they continue to perpetuate this type of souless sprawl.

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I always appreciate someone who goes trolling for a flamewar by making general and vague statements. No, wait, I don't...

...I don't need to spend any more effort defending Raleigh against flamebait like that. Thank you, good night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that Dudepussi's avatar speaks for it itself, orulz :lol:

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Raleigh is a by-product of the modern age. People want to live in cul-de-sacs hidden between 10 lane boulevards with the same 12 big box retail stores repeating themselves every 3 miles. They want a city with two beltways that has a major east-west interstate hwy bisecting it. They want to be able to drive 20 miles and STILL be in the city limits of the same city. They want a city of 350,000 people to have the skyline of a city the size of Durham. Sad as it may be, it's reality. I hope Raleigh has seen Atlanta's mistakes and chooses to plan more wisely in order to avoid them.

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Raleigh is a by-product of the modern age.  People want to live in cul-de-sacs hidden between 10 lane boulevards with the same 12 big box retail stores repeating themselves every 3 miles.  They want a city with two beltways that has a major east-west interstate hwy bisecting it.  They want to be able to drive 20 miles and STILL be in the city limits of the same city. They want a city of 350,000 people to have the skyline of a city the size of Durham.  Sad as it may be, it's reality.  I hope Raleigh has seen Atlanta's mistakes and chooses to plan more wisely in order to avoid them.

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Having been to places like, Chicago, L.A. and D.C. and Dallas/Ft. Worth, would you really think that Raleigh has a sprawl problem? I think Raleigh is right on track for growing out and a bit behind on growing up. The city's about the right size geographically for its population. Now, if we can just make it denser and let the suburbs truly become suburban (As they are mostly rural-suburban, except for Cary and Garner).

I would like to see Clayton, Knightdale, and Wake Forest blend seamlessly into Raleigh. Perhaps some sort of green buffer (similar to Portland) could be enforced on the east side of I-95 and the West side of I-85. This would allow infill along commuting routes and ensure that there would be enough density for TTA Rail, Eastrans, and the merged bus system. With Raleigh already sporting one of the nation's best green-way systems we could be a model of healthy sprawl by extending the greenways throughout all of the suburbs. This way the region is still available to the soccer moms and the urbanite.

Just a thought....

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Maybe somebody can answer this question for me. What is that huge structure off of T.W. Alexander and Highway 70. It just down the road on 70 from The Brier Commons Shopping Center with Dicks Sporting Goods and Target. It's Red brick with bright orange and yellow paint. I think it may be some kind of Go-Cart, golfing or maybe Recreational Center, similar to a Adventure landing or Celebration Station.

Anyone else seen it? :huh:

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Maybe somebody can answer this question for me.  What is that huge structure off of T.W. Alexander and Highway 70. It just down the road on 70  from The Brier Commons Shopping Center with Dicks Sporting Goods and Target.  It's Red brick with bright orange and yellow paint. I think it may be some kind of Go-Cart, golfing or maybe Recreational Center, similar to a Adventure landing or Celebration Station.

Anyone else seen it?  :huh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't been up there in a while, but I remember those apartments near it are also multi-colored so whatever it is i'm sure it's there to match. lol

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Maybe somebody can answer this question for me.  What is that huge structure off of T.W. Alexander and Highway 70. It just down the road on 70  from The Brier Commons Shopping Center with Dicks Sporting Goods and Target.  It's Red brick with bright orange and yellow paint. I think it may be some kind of Go-Cart, golfing or maybe Recreational Center, similar to a Adventure landing or Celebration Station.

Anyone else seen it?  :huh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it's a frankies fun park.

kinda like an adventure landing.

http://www.frankiesfunpark.com/

i wonder which of the features they'll have (bumper boats or bungee jump maybe?)

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I agree. This is one of the recent developments in Raleigh that makes me very disappointed in the City Council. This previously undeveloped area of the county was an opportunity to build smarter, and less sprawling. Instead the area is one of the most sprawling parts of Raleigh. If anyone has been reading comments on Mayor Charles Meeker, his focus on the outlying places of our city are in fact his weakness. Our next mayor should have a healthy focus and vision for Raleigh as a whole, which involves both strengthening our downtown, developing better methods of transportation, and building reducing sprawl with smarter growth strategies.

That's my take.

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Our next mayor should have a healthy focus and vision for Raleigh as a whole, which involves both strengthening our downtown, developing better methods of transportation, and building reducing sprawl with smarter growth strategies.

but don't forget the city council. when's the next election?

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Brier Creek is a far cry from North Hills, but it's hardly the worst development in Raleigh. At least the current portion is pretending to go in a more walk-able direction. My girlfriend and I have been there on several occasions and find that certain areas actually aren't that bad for walking around. Of course you can't cross the major arterial roads, but if you stay within a certain area (such as the major section with the restaurants, Dick's, Borders, etc.) then it's not half bad for Raleigh.

It's far and away better than Triangle Towne Centre, that's for sure. And if the rest of the forthcoming development can improve on what's already there, I suspect Brier Creek will be a decent place. Not great, but decent.

Remember - it IS out past the airport. It would be foolish to expect much better all the way out there.

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