The Dillon: Kane's first downtown mixed use project

[JeffC]

fyi, construction webcam at:

https://app.oxblue.com/open/clancytheys/thedillon

 

[Jones_]

Like InitialD was saying, you can really see it sticking up from unexpected places...now looks more imposing IRL...but here is another angle nonetheless. 

[Merthecat]

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/08/15/kane-signs-local-shop-as-the-dillon-s-second.html

Heirloom Brewshop to open in The Dillon.

[JeffC]

This town cannot possibly support all these brew places...I'm guessing a lot of available retail space will come on the market when the brew shop craze blows over.  Remember the cigar bar craziness about 10 years ago?  How many of those places are left?

[Justin6882]

So this brewshop is coffee, tea, and sake. Different kind of brew. 

[JeffC]

1 hour ago, Justin6882 said:

So this brewshop is coffee, tea, and sake. Different kind of brew. 

So caffeinated beverages and Japanese whiskey?  OK, so I'm guessing that's not a crowded market segment.  A weird combination, but certainly unique...

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Now working on 16 of 17... the end is in sight.... sad! But it adds so much in so many ways...Happy!

[Jones_]

1 hour ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

Now working on 16 of 17... the end is in sight.... sad! But it adds so much in so many ways...Happy!

I was sad too until I realized there should be a nice staggered construction of buildings to keep me entertained..next up One Glenwood (will check out Boylan Flats in the meantime wince it is concrete it looks like), then I guess 400H. Perhaps another hotel will start during one of those too. Nice steady filling in is good on a lot of fronts, particularly my mental one. It was pretty boring on walks from about 2009-2011 or so

[Merthecat]

I'm actually glad this building isn't any taller than it is.  I think 17 floors is about the maximum height appropriate for the Warehouse District.  What I'd really like to see is additional development in the surrounding blocks, featuring more mixed-use structures and bringing people to this part of the downtown.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I think that through the years most people will come to view that the number of floors will change with the lenses of the times....so athough 17 floors today is good, 25 floors is good in say 20 years and then 40 floors is good in 40 years... just like 2 floors was good in 1920 and 5 floors good in 1950...and so on...imho 

[InitialD]

The top of it is either the floor of the 16th floor or the floor of the 17th floor if you skip the 13th. 

 

But yeah, why not just make it 20 floors instead of 17? Have the top floor be a fine dining restaurant and bar. With killer views.

Edited August 24, 2017 by InitialD

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, InitialD said:

The top of it is either the floor of the 16th floor or the floor of the 17th floor if you skip the 13th. 

 

But yeah, why not just make it 20 floors instead of 17? Have the top floor be a fine dining restaurant and bar. With killer views.

Because the developer made a deal with the area councilor Crowder to not exceed 17 stories and not include a bar in this project. Another example of how the city council is deliberately trying to limit Raleigh's growth in a number of ways.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/raleigh-report-blog/article30356016.html

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by RALNATIVE

[KJHburg]

That is a shame the market should have decided that within reason. That area is not a single family home area and it mostly older warehouses and smaller buildings. Wonder what Kane would have built if not restricted to 17?  How come at North Hills Midtown 18-19 stories are allowed and there is single family homes very close by. 

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

That is a shame the market should have decided that within reason. That area is not a single family home area and it mostly older warehouses and smaller buildings. Wonder what Kane would have built if not restricted to 17?  How come at North Hills Midtown 18-19 stories are allowed and there is single family homes very close by. 

This is why when I say things about the city hampering growth I do so, because there is justification behind it. There are several homeowners at my condo bldg, which is around the corner from the Dillon, that opposes any thing resembling highrise construction in our area. They literally fight it tooth and nail. They were the driving force behind Crowder's opposition.

They don't seem to understand that they live in the downtown district of a booming city, and things like late night noise and early morning construction are going to happen. They are mostly empty nesters who left their quiet and safe suburban lifestyles, and now want to bring that lifestyle downtown.

[ctl]

The "empty nesters who left their quiet and safe suburban lifestyles, and now want to bring that lifestyle downtown" tend to have enough money in their pockets to pay cash for downtown living -- an important consideration after the post-2008 tightening up of the mortgage sector. I'm not surprised that empty nesters have a (possibly disproportionate) influence, both directly through politics and indirectly as a principal target market for the developers of downtown residential. Money talks.    

[Jones_]

I think it's a mischaracterization to say they are trying to "limit" development, but rather they are trying to shape and direct it....just like other folks want to shape it taller, and direct it all downtown. My own version of shaping and directing results in something entirely different and mostly hinges on gridding out downtown south and north of the current area...eliminating highway-style roads in and near downtown and vastly improving the mass transit infrastructure and pedestrian environment..and things of that nature. 

[RALNATIVE]

2 hours ago, ctl said:

The "empty nesters who left their quiet and safe suburban lifestyles, and now want to bring that lifestyle downtown" tend to have enough money in their pockets to pay cash for downtown living -- an important consideration after the post-2008 tightening up of the mortgage sector. I'm not surprised that empty nesters have a (possibly disproportionate) influence, both directly through politics and indirectly as a principal target market for the developers of downtown residential. Money talks.    

My post has nothing to do with which demographic can afford to live downtown and has a nest egg built up, but since you raise that point, I truly don't think that this has anything to do with it. There are many 20 and 30 year olds who live downtown that have high incomes and are the largest patrons of the downtown bars, restaurants, etc. that the city most desperately needs to keep downtown vibrant. If anything, this group should theoretically have the most leverage in terms of influencing development downtown. I honestly think that the people who have the most influence in Raleigh are the ones that 1) have lived here the longest, 2) are the most engaged in Raleigh politics, and 3) know how to play the game, regardless of age or wealth.

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, Jones_ said:

I think it's a mischaracterization to say they are trying to "limit" development, but rather they are trying to shape and direct it....just like other folks want to shape it taller, and direct it all downtown. My own version of shaping and directing results in something entirely different and mostly hinges on gridding out downtown south and north of the current area...eliminating highway-style roads in and near downtown and vastly improving the mass transit infrastructure and pedestrian environment..and things of that nature. 

ok...they are trying to shape and direct it in such a way that prevents too many businesses of certain types and certain heights in areas where they live, which happens to be downtown. by default, this limits development and hence growth.

[ctl]

I don't think you want to start political war between the under-35s and the over-50s. Each group needs the other. My point was to defend the over-50s from an implied attack, which your position on who throws around money at bars and restaurants continues to make. Engaged in politics is one thing, powerful in politics is something else. The person who makes a $250 campaign contribution has a lot more clout than the person who spends $250 on a restaurant tab tonight. I've spent too much time in Democratic Party meetings to see it differently. And giving influence to people who've lived here the longest is a quirky way of looking at things, given how much the city has grown and hopes to continue growing. One could say that the most important resident of Raleigh is the next one who moves here. 

[RALNATIVE]

3 hours ago, ctl said:

I don't think you want to start political war between the under-35s and the over-50s. Each group needs the other. My point was to defend the over-50s from an implied attack, which your position on who throws around money at bars and restaurants continues to make. Engaged in politics is one thing, powerful in politics is something else. The person who makes a $250 campaign contribution has a lot more clout than the person who spends $250 on a restaurant tab tonight. I've spent too much time in Democratic Party meetings to see it differently. And giving influence to people who've lived here the longest is a quirky way of looking at things, given how much the city has grown and hopes to continue growing. One could say that the most important resident of Raleigh is the next one who moves here. 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend anything. My statements are not meant to be an attack on any group of people. I've just stated my opinion, which should not be considered an attack. Maybe you have been spending way too much time in Democratic party meetings.

[DPK]

Can all ya'll just shutup about politics on here.  I come here for development talk, not people's political aspirations.

[ctl]

No one here has political aspirations that I know of, and no one here (I think) wants to turn this forum into a political one. But surely you recognize that citizenry input on development and lifestyle issues rolls up into political positions, which in turn define how the city influences and regulates the development you're interested in. It will be interesting to see what the candidates for mayor articulate in the remaining 45 days before the municipal election. 

[DPK]

36 minutes ago, ctl said:

No one here has political aspirations that I know of, and no one here (I think) wants to turn this forum into a political one. But surely you recognize that citizenry input on development and lifestyle issues rolls up into political positions, which in turn define how the city influences and regulates the development you're interested in. It will be interesting to see what the candidates for mayor articulate in the remaining 45 days before the municipal election. 

Fair point.  It was late and politics in general has been an annoying topic for me lately.

[Jones_]

On 8/25/2017 at 2:39 PM, RALNATIVE said:

ok...they are trying to shape and direct it in such a way that prevents too many businesses of certain types and certain heights in areas where they live, which happens to be downtown. by default, this limits development and hence growth.

I'll attempt this positive twist...a floor not built at the Dillion is a floor that gets built somewhere else..assuming the 'market' is downtown and firms that want to be downtown will find a way (meaning the loss of a floor at Dillion doesn't cause a firm to go to say Weston). Perhaps if enough things get capped at 20, or chopped to 17, then, say, the N&O site, starts to be able to support 50 instead of 40. 

[KJHburg]

Is this topped out? From their webcam this afternoon