Jump to content

Baton Rouge Inner Loop


richyb83

Recommended Posts

You clearly don't use the bridge as often as I have.

I see this as a way to provide an alternate route around the 10/110 split while opening up areas in northern East Baton Rouge to investment, distributing and controlling outlying development in a way that keeps downtown, mid city, and the airport closer to the center of population in the metro instead of a book end.

I am also confident that, if done correctly, a limited access freeway with adequate feeder roads would contribute enough to traffic counts in northern Baton Rouge to improve the retail amenities there and possibly redevelop the Cortana mall and EKL area.

Franlkly, the only other plan that makes sense to me is the northern leg of the initial proposed loop and the west side expressway (which I think is critical for the entire southern part of the state).

I don't like routes that are too far from the city center, which should be downtown despite leadership's best effort to push people farther down I-10 and I-12.

Okay you make a good case, but at the end of the day everyone is still going to have to get onto I-10 or I-12 and use that one bridge. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Okay you make a good case, but at the end of the day everyone is still going to have to get onto I-10 or I-12 and use that one bridge.

People passing through won't, and people committing in the north-south direction in EBR can avoid the 10-12 split altogether if we can make the Airline Highway route more efficient.

The local economy won't completely shut down when some meth'd out trucker carrying hazardous cargo does something incredibly stupid that shuts down I-10.

Have you ever tried going north-south (or vice versa) at rush hour? It's a disaster. This would alleviate that to some degree and serve the people of EBR well.

It would have to be done very carefully along Airline. It's critical that it is done in a way that serves both commuters and the locals well. We must rebuilt the retail amenities in that section.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You clearly don't use the bridge as often as I have.

I see this as a way to provide an alternate route around the 10/110 split while opening up areas in northern East Baton Rouge to investment, distributing and controlling outlying development in a way that keeps downtown, mid city, and the airport closer to the center of population in the metro instead of a book end.

I am also confident that, if done correctly, a limited access freeway with adequate feeder roads would contribute enough to traffic counts in northern Baton Rouge to improve the retail amenities there and possibly redevelop the Cortana mall and EKL area.

Franlkly, the only other plan that makes sense to me is the northern leg of the initial proposed loop and the west side expressway (which I think is critical for the entire southern part of the state).

I don't like routes that are too far from the city center, which should be downtown despite leadership's best effort to push people farther down I-10 and I-12.

I never use the bridge honestly. I never have a reason to.

 

I love the investment, but I have very little faith in our leaders to make sure this will be designed in the best way possible. I have little confidence in the impact on north Baton Rouge, the demographics just aren't there to support anything significant yet.

 

What I imagine is 5-6 years of construction work, and a year of improved traffic flow, after that it will revert back to the same current situation. Just like I-10.

 

I like the extra freeway miles, but don't market it as some sort of bypass because it won't act as that. It'll be like using I-610 in Houston as a bypass, or I-210 in Lake Charles. It may help if there's a wreck during non-rush hours but during rush hour Airline will be bumper to bumper like it is today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree. The only reason to widen a highway or to add freeway miles is to increase capacity or to provide an alternative route. The inner loop project checks both of those boxes.

Airline is a neglected 4 lane road (it still has at-grade railroad crossings!!!) that can only move so many cars over a period of time. Growth in the northern part of the city and parish are limited by access. More lanes means a higher traffic count, which means more attractive land to retail development.....not to mention a viable alternative route in case an accident occurs on I-10.

It's justified.....it has been justified for decades.

I think that it would be a great thing if done correctly (with surface feeder lanes, U-turn lanes, sidewalks, and protected bus stops).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree. The only reason to widen a highway or to add freeway miles is to increase capacity or to provide an alternative route. The inner loop project checks both of those boxes.

Airline is a neglected 4 lane road (it still has at-grade railroad crossings!!!) that can only move so many cars over a period of time. Growth in the northern part of the city and parish are limited by access. More lanes means a higher traffic count, which means more attractive land to retail development.....not to mention a viable alternative route in case an accident occurs on I-10.

It's justified.....it has been justified for decades.

I think that it would be a great thing if done correctly (with surface feeder lanes, U-turn lanes, sidewalks, and protected bus stops).

But this won't be an alternate route, it'll be more capacity only. It is much more capacity, I will give it that.

 

I'm not as optimistic about the whole plan, I don't think they will have all those features, there's not a ton a room in north Baton Rouge along the ROW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree. The only reason to widen a highway or to add freeway miles is to increase capacity or to provide an alternative route. The inner loop project checks both of those boxes.

Airline is a neglected 4 lane road (it still has at-grade railroad crossings!!!) that can only move so many cars over a period of time. Growth in the northern part of the city and parish are limited by access. More lanes means a higher traffic count, which means more attractive land to retail development.....not to mention a viable alternative route in case an accident occurs on I-10.

It's justified.....it has been justified for decades.

I think that it would be a great thing if done correctly (with surface feeder lanes, U-turn lanes, sidewalks, and protected bus stops).

There is still no gaurentee this will spur growth, especially when other areas of the city are still growing and are much more attractive developmental areas *cough* SEBR *cough* downtown *cough* . You need more than an interstate to spur growth in some of the most violent and poorest neighborhoods in the nation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is still no gaurentee this will spur growth, especially when other areas of the city are still growing and are much more attractive developmental areas *cough* SEBR *cough* downtown *cough* . You need more than an interstate to spur growth in some of the most violent and poorest neighborhoods in the nation. 

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

No project is a guarantee to induce growth or reinvestment, look at Catfish Town. It's just there's no destination that I can see people traveling to that will cause that much of a traffic spike to convince retailers to open up. No major employers, no large suburb, no shopping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand people being pessimistic about this. Certainly this state doesn't give a whole lot of reason for optimism, especially when it come to transportation issues. Consider this though, is doing nothing the best option? I think we all agree that nothing is not the best option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand people being pessimistic about this. Certainly this state doesn't give a whole lot of reason for optimism, especially when it come to transportation issues. Consider this though, is doing nothing the best option? I think we all agree that nothing is not the best option.

Nothing is not the best option but neither is this. We shouldn't just do something for the sake of doing something. 

 

BR needs a loop, but I don't think this is the right route for it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand people being pessimistic about this. Certainly this state doesn't give a whole lot of reason for optimism, especially when it come to transportation issues. Consider this though, is doing nothing the best option? I think we all agree that nothing is not the best option.

 

Doing nothing is certainly not the best option. However, was spending 5 years on I-10 the best option? Traffic is still heavy on weekends and nothing appears to have changed for rush hour commuters. Should have been 10-lanes from the split to Highland.

 

The idea isn't so bad but to say it will replace the loop is absolutely discouraging and one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about Louisiana's future. This is NOT a loop and it will NOT act as a loop. Even as a purely local traffic project, I have little faith in the state going about this correctly. It will probably be a 4 or 6 lane freeway with no feeders, it doesn't address commuters to Central, Baker, or Zachary, and it doesn't acknowledge traffic that begins in Ascension Parish by having the connector in EBR.

 

I don't like it, prove me wrong!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody seems to want the Outer-loop in the surrounding area...Central; Livingston, Ascension, etc & Brusly didn't want the new bridge

 

Since Airline Hwy is most of this so-called Inner-loop...figured i'd post this article here...

 

Moving on down the road: Companies along Airline Highway are migrating south. What does it mean for those left behind?

 

Fifty years ago, Bon Marche on Florida was a retail hotspot and businesses surrounded the shopping mecca. However, it shuttered not long after Cortana Mall opened in 1976 and is now an office park. The Cortana Mall replaced Bon Marche as a shopping hub. It was centrally located between Florida Boulevard and Airline Highway and minutes from the heavily populated subdivisions, Sherwood Forest, Broadmoor and Tara. Car dealerships lined Florida Boulevard and Airline Highway, and Woman’s Hospital was located between it all.

 

But with the gradual decline of public schools in East Baton Rouge Parish, along with available land and cheaper housing in the southern part of Baton Rouge and in Ascension and Livingston parishes, and the Mall of Louisiana opening in 1997, people began to move south and east, and big box retailers, restaurants and business followed. Cortana Mall is still open but is more of an inner-city shopping mall, lacking vibrant anchors and the suburban shoppers it once hosted. There are booming box stores in its perimeter, like Walmart; Sam’s Club; Bed, Bath and Beyond; and Old Navy, but there are also three shuttered restaurants with boarded-up windows that face Airline Highway.

 

When Woman’s Hospital announced plans to open a new location south of the Interstate on Airline Highway in 2012, retailers on north Airline Highway say they were nervous about the impact on business.

 

While the population is slightly higher within five miles of the Cortana Mall than it is within five miles of the new Woman’s Hospital, the average household income is greater for those living closer to Woman’s.

 

Littlefield says while Cortana isn’t the most popular shopping center in town, he notes that big box retailers like Bed, Bath and Beyond, Shoe Carnival and Old Navy continue to thrive. He acknowledges the growing population in the southeastern section of Baton Rouge, but says there is also a growing trend for young people who are frustrated with an increased commute time in Ascension Parish who are moving back to Baton Rouge and settling in established neighborhoods like Broadmoor, Tara and Sherwood Forest to raise their families.

 

“We have just as many young people and new people coming in as we do have old people moving out,” Littlefield says. “People who live here have a genuine desire to live in older established neighborhoods. There are enough residents around to support restaurants and businesses in this area.”

 

*rest of article

http://www.businessreport.com/business/moving-road-companies-along-airline-highway-migrating-south-mean-left-behind

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody seems to want the Outer-loop in the surrounding area...Central; Livingston, Ascension, etc & Brusly didn't want the new bridge

 

Since Airline Hwy is most of this so-called Inner-loop...figured i'd post this article here...

 

Moving on down the road: Companies along Airline Highway are migrating south. What does it mean for those left behind?

 

Fifty years ago, Bon Marche on Florida was a retail hotspot and businesses surrounded the shopping mecca. However, it shuttered not long after Cortana Mall opened in 1976 and is now an office park. The Cortana Mall replaced Bon Marche as a shopping hub. It was centrally located between Florida Boulevard and Airline Highway and minutes from the heavily populated subdivisions, Sherwood Forest, Broadmoor and Tara. Car dealerships lined Florida Boulevard and Airline Highway, and Woman’s Hospital was located between it all.

 

But with the gradual decline of public schools in East Baton Rouge Parish, along with available land and cheaper housing in the southern part of Baton Rouge and in Ascension and Livingston parishes, and the Mall of Louisiana opening in 1997, people began to move south and east, and big box retailers, restaurants and business followed. Cortana Mall is still open but is more of an inner-city shopping mall, lacking vibrant anchors and the suburban shoppers it once hosted. There are booming box stores in its perimeter, like Walmart; Sam’s Club; Bed, Bath and Beyond; and Old Navy, but there are also three shuttered restaurants with boarded-up windows that face Airline Highway.

 

When Woman’s Hospital announced plans to open a new location south of the Interstate on Airline Highway in 2012, retailers on north Airline Highway say they were nervous about the impact on business.

 

While the population is slightly higher within five miles of the Cortana Mall than it is within five miles of the new Woman’s Hospital, the average household income is greater for those living closer to Woman’s.

 

Littlefield says while Cortana isn’t the most popular shopping center in town, he notes that big box retailers like Bed, Bath and Beyond, Shoe Carnival and Old Navy continue to thrive. He acknowledges the growing population in the southeastern section of Baton Rouge, but says there is also a growing trend for young people who are frustrated with an increased commute time in Ascension Parish who are moving back to Baton Rouge and settling in established neighborhoods like Broadmoor, Tara and Sherwood Forest to raise their families.

 

“We have just as many young people and new people coming in as we do have old people moving out,” Littlefield says. “People who live here have a genuine desire to live in older established neighborhoods. There are enough residents around to support restaurants and businesses in this area.”

 

*rest of article

http://www.businessreport.com/business/moving-road-companies-along-airline-highway-migrating-south-mean-left-behind

EBR school system didn't have problems in the 1990's failure didn't happen to the 2000's. Most people left due to white flight  that which everybody know it. People try to denied it Baker population was mostly white through most of the of 1990's. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EBR school system didn't have problems in the 1990's failure didn't happen to the 2000's. Most people left due to white flight  that which everybody know it. People try to denied it Baker population was mostly white through most of the of 1990's. 

Our Parish is to segregated that have to change if we want to grow. One of the reason I'm against St George. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From an outsiders view Airline Hwy/Florida Blvd is waste land and that fact that people in this city that live in that area are ignorant to this shows how much help this city needs.

 

The whole state sucks for infrastructure planning, probably always will be.

The only thing this state is good at is throwing party's and exploiting culture. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EBR school system didn't have problems in the 1990's failure didn't happen to the 2000's. Most people left due to white flight  that which everybody know it. People try to denied it Baker population was mostly white through most of the of 1990's. 

Thanks for the article link...I thought there were some very good points though it's obvious that "big box" retail has moved south and south east. What the article regretfully leaves out are many non-retail oriented developments that have moved into the area around the new police HQ and Cortana. Vivid INK, StarMount / Alway's care, Orion Instruments, A major CarQuest Distribution center, Emeco Tech to name a few. Someone is even breaking ground on a large site Across from WalMart on Oak Villa right now.

 

I don't think I need to point out the high income levels in the areas between i12 and Florida that support many high end stores and restaurants.  And yes there are still areas in Broadmoor and Sherwood with very high household income. Tara, old Goodwood, Capitol Heights, Westdale area, mid-city, garden district are absolutely blowing up or at least trending up right now. I can't speak 100% for the area just north of Florida, but there are many working and middle class buffer neighborhoods that are not as bad as people think.   

 

My point is I would put good money on the South Mid-city area remaining healthy regardless of where some car dealership or furniture store moves. BR is still relatively small so it's not really an issue to go a little bit further to reach a busy retail center. I doubt Baker experienced an influx of high income home buyers and boutique businesses or had a Whole Foods and Leblanc's frais marche move in prior to its turn for the worse.

 

In my own personal experience the area between Florida Blvd and i12 is so convenient to everything in BR I would never leave it (unless I left the state). There are several very good private schools in the area and even some good public schools like Sherwood Middle, LaSalle (gifted), Westdale Magnet, BR High...Many people would rather pay for private school than commute every day. Gas (idling in traffic, etc), maintenance costs, lost time with family, etc will cost you about the same as putting 1-1.5 kids through a good private school. I've done the commute thing and the math and it's a no brainer for me. 

 

Now I might be wrong this may all change one day, but so might the future of any area in EBR parish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the state is willing to spend 700 million to 1 billion on the inner loop they might as well spend on the loop that been plan for years. Maybe something else could be done to Airline Hwy like adding more lanes.

I agree with this statement.  Although to my knowledge the state wouldn't be spending the money, it's a private company.  The fact is the infrastructure already exists (people can go drive it right now) so why spend that much to bring more traffic into the city? If they want to build something let them build a loop that routes traffic around the city. It will have to be done eventually anyway...

 

I would also ask what is the cost of the infrastructure currently? It's got to be in the billions of dollars when you factor in cost of original planning, right of way purchases, current land values, widening and the additions of lanes and intersection improvements (see sherwood/siegen) over the past 40 years.  Even with a private developer spending $700mil on this, what does the tax payer get in return? Do we just hand over billions in public infrastructure? Even if they leased it for 100 years we wouldn't recoup that money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Wanted to revisit this thread as I'm sure this "inner loop" talk will pop up again at some point.  I wasn't sure how to link just the specific article so I will copy and paste it here. Sorry, it's long and there are no pretty pictures, but it really is great insight to the downside of the sweetheart deals (or one night stands) we (sometimes unknowingly) make to private companies, especially in regards to our infrastructure, to satisfy our instant gratification. The blog I pulled this from is great btw and can be found here: http://www.urbanophile.com. The blog author is Aaron Renn (urban analyst) and he keeps it very non-biased IMO. 

 

 

More Privatization Pain For the Public in North Carolina

Privatization done right can be a great boon. Done poorly, it can harm the public for decades. We see another example of the latter ongoing in North Carolina (h/t @mihirpshah). TheCharlotte Observer reports:

The N.C. Department of Transportation’s contract with a private developer to build toll lanes on Interstate 77 includes a controversial noncompete clause that could hinder plans to build new free lanes on the highway for 50 years.

 

The clause has long been part of the proposed contract. But it was changed in late 2013 or early 2014 to also include two new free lanes around Lake Norman – an important $431 million project supported by local transportation planners.Some area officials were surprised that under the contract with I-77 Mobility Partners, the developer would likely collect damages if the state added two new general-purpose lanes from Exit 28 to Exit 36 at the lake.Many of these long term privatization contracts are loaded with “submarine” clauses like non-competes that lurk underwater ready to rise up torpedo the public without warning.

 

Did the people of North Carolina know that they were signing away their right to make public policy for the next 50 years when they did this deal?

What raises serious a red flag is that the clause that incorporated the I-77 added lanes project was added late in the game, which suggests that the current impact were not an accident: Bill Coxe, a transportation planner with Huntersville, said he doesn’t know who lobbied for the revision. The new language wasn’t part of the draft contract from 2013, but it was added before the final deal was signed in June. “We saw that late in the game,” he said. “We aren’t sure who modified that.”

Mooresville’s representative on an advisory committee that helps make transportation recommendations said she didn’t know about the change to the contract with the developer. Neither did Andrew Grant, a Cornelius assistant town manager who helps shape regional transportation policy.

So many of these deals have less to do with bringing in private capital to finance infrastructure improvements than they do contractually creating a decades long stream of monopoly rents for the contractor. Chicago got burned when an arbitrator ruled it owed $58 million to the group that leased the city’s lakefront parking garages. The city had promised it would not allow anyone else to build a garage open to the public to compete with the lessee. But it did anyway and they had to pay damages.

 

Contra the claim in the article that these clauses are necessary to attract investment, simply look around and see that businesses take huge investment risks every single day in markets with no barriers to entry for competitors. You don’t see Walgreens going to city governments and telling them they won’t open a store unless the city promises not to approve a CVS within a two mile radius, for example. We often see retail competitors right across the street from each other. 

 

But why invest in the actual marketplace when you can sign a sweetheart deal that grants you a five decade monopoly?

 

In this case, it appears to be free lanes and toll lanes side by side on the same facility. So there’s some justification for some sort of agreement on the state’s plans for the free lanes. But given that the free lane expansion was already on the books and supported by transportation planners, to have the project de facto killed through a clause slipped into a private contract in a way that does not appear to have been vetted by the public is dubious. If the residents of the area had known the free lane project they were banking on would be basically taken off the table for 50 years, it might have created protests that could potentially derail the contract. So by simply adding a non-compete clause, the state and contractor could do the same thing without stirring up the public until it was too late. It’s all the more reason why there needs to be much, much more scrutiny on the terms of these deals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Thanks for the graphic....I will be curious to see what exactly they will do for the "Urban Renewal Zone"?  They are currently in the process of demolishing the EKL Hospital..kind of sad....Wonder what might be built in it's place?

 

What happened to the south-connection from Airline Hwy to I-10 near Pecue Lane?  That will be a challenge to exactly how they are going to pull that off? Upgrade Pecue?  Build a new highway paralleling Pecue?...On- & Off Ramps/Flyovers near the new Woman's Hospital...etc

 

 

BUMPmap.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.