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222 2nd Ave. South, 25 Stories|305 Feet, 391,000 sq. ft., $100 million


Paramount747

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Dozens of those pre-war masonry high rises are being demo'd in Manhattan... the latest is a project on the corner just across Vanderbilt Place from the south entrance of Grand Central Station... I think that's 42nd Street.  Anyway... it's a pair of early 20th Century buildings.  Parts of NYC are already so so so bland... and I'm not referring just to the stretch of Avenue of Americas west of Rockefeller Center (actually technically a part of R.C.). 

 

The project to which you're referring is 1 Vanderbilt - 63 stories, 1.5M sf, 1,500 ft in height, designed by KPF.

 

To get the project approved the developer is pitching in approx. $220M in public improvements, mostly to improve the subway station at Grand Central Terminal.  As Nashville continues its growth, it is possible this could be a model (albeit on a smaller scale) for how to pay for some transit improvements downtown.

 

More information can be found at these links:

 

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/05/27/city_council_green_lights_1500foot_one_vanderbilt.php

http://ny.curbed.com/places/one-vanderbilt

http://therealdeal.com/blog/tag/1-vanderbilt/

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Since it has been well past 60 days since the announcement that a rendering was forthcoming, does anyone have any doubts about this project especially since Michael never got his low rise project started up the street?

 

Since CB Ragland was a food distributor and subsequently a real estate holdings company that has not been a developer before, is this project to bold for a first project? 

 

Since the aforementioned low rise project never started, what is the chance of this actually happening?

 

Thoughts?

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I'm not saying that I think this is a slam dunk by any means, but having to wait a month or two for a rendering is absolutely no reason to begin calling this project into question.  For all I know it may be in jeopardy.  But there is nothing I know of that would suggest that thus far. 

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Really?

 

We'd be gushing 'ooo's and 'ahhh's all over this thing if we got a building like that in Nashville. I think it looks great.

 

Are we talking about the same building ? One of the commenters described it as "(San Francisco's) TransAmerica Pyramid's retarded cousin." I wouldn't want that monster here or anywhere without a major redesign from top to bottom.

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Are we talking about the same building ? One of the commenters described it as "(San Francisco's) TransAmerica Pyramid's retarded cousin." I wouldn't want that monster here or anywhere without a major redesign from top to bottom.

 

This thing, right?

 

1-Vanderbilt1.png

 

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I fail to see why any of us would oppose it. There's enough flat-tops being built in town these days that one with a crown like this would have our members dancing in the streets!

 

Now, if they had settled on this previously proposed design, I could better understand the negativity...

 

5086d8e128ba0d6e9f000007_final-vision-fo

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No.

There is another tenant I believe that is not been announced. I think that will be the anchor. The parking lot will be closed in August, per folks in the Liggett building.

John, two months is nothing. Good lord, be patient.

This has nothing to do with being patient Ron, it's the reality that Michael has never done a development in Nashville, and he failed to get his low rise building done. Nothing personal, just facts.

 

Yes, he has Hines, and Gresham Smith, and he also has other tenants in line that will service Bridgestone. The other unannounced tenant I have heard is a Bridgestone supplier. I know people in the Liggett Building. The Liggett Building is home to Qualifacts the Medical Software Company. I know the HR Director. They have been made aware of some possible start dates.

 

The bond market had a slight correction yesterday. Interest rates up to 4.1% up form 3.25%, so we will see what kind of paper they need to carry to get this done.

Edited by Paramount747
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John, so far you have given more reasons why this project is likely to happen than not.  I don't know Mr. Hayes, however I'm pretty sure his firm has been a property manager for some time now.  Basically, it would seem that they have the expertise assembled to build this tower.  I'm aware of many towers built by a team with far less experience. Of course, it all boils down to getting $... but I would expect that would be easier for an entity that owns the site already (assuming free-and-clear). Ron is right about being patient. 

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This thing, right?

 

1-Vanderbilt1.png

 

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I fail to see why any of us would oppose it. There's enough flat-tops being built in town these days that one with a crown like this would have our members dancing in the streets!

 

Now, if they had settled on this previously proposed design, I could better understand the negativity...

 

5086d8e128ba0d6e9f000007_final-vision-fo

 

While I believe the upper image (more recent rendering) to be more appealing, the bottom (previous) one is not really that bad, except for it looking like a broke-off obelisk with tacky-ass keloids and moles growing out the sides.  If is going to have simplistic but non-vertical lines, then at least it should be made clean and linear without clutter.  I suspect that the previous one was nothing more than the product of a conceptual brain-storm (or brain-poot).  The good thing about the more recently rendered design is that its set-back style is more complementary, as well as "complimentary" (flattering), to existing high-rises (except for perhaps the former Pan-Am building [Met-Life], and former Bear Stearns [383 Madison Ave]).

-==-

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This thing, right?

 

1-Vanderbilt1.png

 

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I fail to see why any of us would oppose it. There's enough flat-tops being built in town these days that one with a crown like this would have our members dancing in the streets!

 

Now, if they had settled on this previously proposed design, I could better understand the negativity...

 

5086d8e128ba0d6e9f000007_final-vision-fo

 

Yes, that's the one. I just flat-out don't like it. It looks amateurish and the unfinished top is ghastly. The earlier design I like... IF they got rid of those ridiculous balcony protrusions (as Roozkie pointed out). I don't understand this fetish in recent years to design these abstract/surrealist monsters (the failed Louisville Museum Plaza comes to mind). Once built, they'll only produce a sense of puzzlement by residents and visitors alike as to why they were ever allowed to go up in the first place. More class, less crass.

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Hines is one of the most accomplished developers in the world. I'll be shocked if they signed on to do a project like this and it doesn't happen. And... two months is nothing.

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Given the track record for recent developments that are U/C or completed, I think we should be used to anywhere between 6 months and a few years between the announcement and when it actually breaks ground. That's not to mention that the design could change 2-3 times.

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My concern is not necessarily the time frame, but really are we building too much too fast? When is the bubble? And how much architectural integrity are we losing by building so much so quick?

 

Right now construction is like the AM Top 40. Put as much out there as possible so the public will buy it up.

 

I just hope this is a nice piece. I am very hesitant to accept this as just going to be another box rater than art. Any building this close to the river needs to be worthy of being near the river.

 

I have a feeling this will be no more than another Hyatt Place or Hilton Garden Inn.

 

It does not have to be tall to have some amazing architectural features.

Edited by Paramount747
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  • 1 month later...

I guess we will have some announcements soon? Ron and WW will let us know, but I get the feeling we should hear a few things soon. Would be nice to get this started by fall, and Qualifacts is moving out of the Liggett Building. They are going to the L&C Tower, so I wonder if the Liggett Building will stay, or be incorporated into this building?

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