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clt29301

The State of DT Greenville Office Space

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Assuming the GADC website is updated, there seems to be a decent amount of office space vacant in DT Greenville.  Just looking at the big blocks of space in 7 buildings, including 100,000 sq ft for sublease in One, the DT vacancy rate is right at 15% using just 7 buildings.  If you branch out to include others, the rate will increase.  At an absorption rate of 125,000 annually, there is about 3 years worth of space for lease in DT Greenville.  If you include the old Liberty Building on Wade Hampton, close to DT, the number goes a lot higher due to the 145,000 sq feet available (this space is very cheap with rates as low as $13/per sq foot). 

 

http://www.greenvilleeconomicdevelopment.com/office-buildings.php

 

The questions are......what is being done to fill the space?

 

Almost 50% of the space at One is for lease, that is not a good sign for the newest and best building in Greenville. 

 

Will the Greenville News site be built in phases, not sure the office portion is needed.  If the rental market starts to slip, this project may not work mathematically.....at least until TC get the tax credits.

 

 

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Assuming the GADC website is updated, there seems to be a decent amount of office space vacant in DT Greenville.  Just looking at the big blocks of space in 7 buildings, including 100,000 sq ft for sublease in One, the DT vacancy rate is right at 15% using just 7 buildings.  If you branch out to include others, the rate will increase.  At an absorption rate of 125,000 annually, there is about 3 years worth of space for lease in DT Greenville.  If you include the old Liberty Building on Wade Hampton, close to DT, the number goes a lot higher due to the 145,000 sq feet available (this space is very cheap with rates as low as $13/per sq foot). 

 

http://www.greenvilleeconomicdevelopment.com/office-buildings.php

 

The questions are......what is being done to fill the space?

 

Almost 50% of the space at One is for lease, that is not a good sign for the newest and best building in Greenville. 

 

Will the Greenville News site be built in phases, not sure the office portion is needed.  If the rental market starts to slip, this project may not work mathematically.....at least until TC get the tax credits.

 

The city is actively working on filling that space now specifically.

 

I won't worry so much about Camperdown for a good chunk of that will be filled by the Gville News.

 

Personally, it might be to the city's best interest to move some of their off-city hall office space back downtown to fill some of the space.

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Assuming the GADC website is updated, there seems to be a decent amount of office space vacant in DT Greenville.  Just looking at the big blocks of space in 7 buildings, including 100,000 sq ft for sublease in One, the DT vacancy rate is right at 15% using just 7 buildings.  If you branch out to include others, the rate will increase.  At an absorption rate of 125,000 annually, there is about 3 years worth of space for lease in DT Greenville.  If you include the old Liberty Building on Wade Hampton, close to DT, the number goes a lot higher due to the 145,000 sq feet available (this space is very cheap with rates as low as $13/per sq foot). 

 

http://www.greenvilleeconomicdevelopment.com/office-buildings.php

 

The questions are......what is being done to fill the space?

 

Almost 50% of the space at One is for lease, that is not a good sign for the newest and best building in Greenville. 

 

Will the Greenville News site be built in phases, not sure the office portion is needed.  If the rental market starts to slip, this project may not work mathematically.....at least until TC get the tax credits.

 

Gosh, that's horrible compared to a forward-thinking city like Charlotte which has virtually no available office space and tons of pent-up demand.  What is Charlotte doing that little 'ol Greenville can learn from?

 

Let's not kid ourselves and think that Greenville is attracting any business interest, because based on these numbers, it is clearly not - especially compared to the thousands of faster-growing metros in the southeast.  After looking at how far behind Greenville is, and what a poor job the city is doing, maybe Greenville should just stop trying...

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Why....... No I won't do it. You guys fell for the bait huh. And this was really obvious.

Edited by MAJIKMAN

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The city is actively working on filling that space now specifically.

 

I won't worry so much about Camperdown for a good chunk of that will be filled by the Gville News.

 

Personally, it might be to the city's best interest to move some of their off-city hall office space back downtown to fill some of the space.

Yep...I can see the News taking some of that space.

 

And, I agree, if the city has people housed around the city, it would be a good time to take some of the available space.  Or, they could take at large chunk of the Wade Hampton space at $13/sq ft. 

 

Did Certus vacate this space at One? 

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Gosh, that's horrible compared to a forward-thinking city like Charlotte which has virtually no available office space and tons of pent-up demand.  What is Charlotte doing that little 'ol Greenville can learn from?

 

Let's not kid ourselves and think that Greenville is attracting any business interest, because based on these numbers, it is clearly not - especially compared to the thousands of faster-growing metros in the southeast.  After looking at how far behind Greenville is, and what a poor job the city is doing, maybe Greenville should just stop trying...

 

Why would you write something like this?  I posted actual information about Greenville sourcing the information from your own development corp.  They are honest questions, these are large chunks of space for a small market.

 

As for Charlotte, since you asked, the vacancy rate is under 10%....class A space is a lot lower than that.  If you are looking for a large block of space, it is hard to find at this point.  A couple of events will put more space on the market......a new 25 story office tower under construction (50% pre lease with Babson Capital as the anchor) with two more to start this year, and the relocation of AT&T from DT to the suburbs.  But, absorption rates are close to 2m sq feet annually so a lot of what is out there, if it is quality, will be taken off the market.  There will be around 12 towers under construction DT Charlotte by the end of 2015...hotel, office, apartment, one with a While Foods at the base of the tower.    This does not take into account what is happening at SouthPark or Ballantyne.

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Dear clt29301,

 

Just one question...... who in Greenville ran over your dog?  I've never heard anyone with more hate for Greenville than you.  please just go back to your perfect city and let us talk about our little city in peace.

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Dear clt29301,

 

Just one question...... who in Greenville ran over your dog?  I've never heard anyone with more hate for Greenville than you.  please just go back to your perfect city and let us talk about our little city in peace.

Hey darw100,

 

Don't you dare pick on clt blah blah blah, he is the coolest guy EVARR!!!1!  ALL the girls love him (especially Charlotte) because he's well-endowed from being smart enough to live in the best city EVARR!!!1!

 

And he knows the TRUTH about Greenville, that we'll be a forgotten ghost town by next Thursday (this is undeniable because Charlotte has a CHEESECAKE FACTORY, and EVERYONE knows that you can't be a world class city without a CHEESECAKE FACTORY!).

 

Hopefully I'll be able to sell my house before it's bulldozed to make way for the Golden Boulevard that will lead from every crappy village in America to the utopian mecca of Charlotte, NC. Clt etc. knows that North Carolina is best Carolina, and that makes him better than you and me. Maybe someday I can live in Charlotte and clt whatever and I can look down on all you plebs stuck in Loserville (I mean Greenville).

 

All of us Greenvillians are just too thick to recognize the genius of clt yada yada's Charlo-centric jingoism. Wake up sheeple, Greenville is a lost cause, we're circling the drain... I just hope we can all survive without the endorsement of clt something or other.

 

Keep Calm and Greenville on...

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You know what you just did. You fed the cat. Now he'll never go away.

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If we are going to continue with this thread, lets make it legitimate. I will say this. Clt did make a good point of asking a relevant question about the absorption rate of office space in Greenville. For me a lot of the space will be taken over the course of the year by relocations, like the proposed move of the engineering company from Spartanburg to One building, and new company's in general moving in. But I am not that worried it though. We always see a reshuffling of companies to new office space here in the past. I think this year will not be any different. Many cities go through it.

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Why would you write something like this?  I posted actual information about Greenville sourcing the information from your own development corp.  They are honest questions, these are large chunks of space for a small market.

 

As for Charlotte, since you asked, the vacancy rate is under 10%....class A space is a lot lower than that.  If you are looking for a large block of space, it is hard to find at this point.  A couple of events will put more space on the market......a new 25 story office tower under construction (50% pre lease with Babson Capital as the anchor) with two more to start this year, and the relocation of AT&T from DT to the suburbs.  But, absorption rates are close to 2m sq feet annually so a lot of what is out there, if it is quality, will be taken off the market.  There will be around 12 towers under construction DT Charlotte by the end of 2015...hotel, office, apartment, one with a While Foods at the base of the tower.    This does not take into account what is happening at SouthPark or Ballantyne.

 

LOL.

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I'm trying to keep this playground civilized folks. So can we get serious again.

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I'm trying to keep this playground civilized folks. So can we get serious again.

 

I appreciate you doing this.  Is the old Lockwood Greene moving to Greenville?

LOL.

 

I would not be laughing after seeing the Greenville numbers.  If you understood, you would not be either.

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Again the city is working specifically on this issue. I assume the company moving from Spartanburg is part of that. And giving how well the ED department works at the city, they will find a meaningful amount for the rest. You'll never get to 100% of course. 

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Truth be told, the DT vacancy rate has bounced between 16 and 20% for as long as I can remember. It is still in that range. That is not great but it is typical for many cities.

The vast majority of the space in ONE is being subleased, so rent is still being paid on it.

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Again the city is working specifically on this issue. I assume the company moving from Spartanburg is part of that. And giving how well the ED department works at the city, they will find a meaningful amount for the rest. You'll never get to 100% of course.

You won't get to 100%, the closest I saw was Charlotte with about a 2% vacancy rate DT. The 10% range is a healthy rate for a large market because it leaves you enough space to attract new entrants to the city.

What is the city doing to fill the space? Seeing One with so much space is concerning, that is the best space in town. Hughes is happy but for the city, it is not good to have your prime space on sublease for half the building.

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CBRE is being proactive in finding tenants to fill the space. Ernst and Young will be moving into some of the space soon.

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The upside to having a large amount of space in a new building is that it allows the city to pitch turnkey space that is immediately available.  No construction time lag to deal with. In some instances that can be a significant advantage. That is no doubt a reason why TD decided to consolidate some functions at their campus here and take the space off the market. 

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The upside to having a large amount of space in a new building is that it allows the city to pitch turnkey space that is immediately available.  No construction time lag to deal with. In some instances that can be a significant advantage. That is no doubt a reason why TD decided to consolidate some functions at their campus here and take the space off the market. 

 

That is a true statement.  But, you need to attract companies from other places and not just move people around Greenville.  If the Greenville News site is built, you will see vacancy rates go over 20% which should stop new office construction for a while.....without a company relo.  I would bet apartment construction will taper off over the next 12 - 15 months as well. 

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What exactly is the point of this thread anyways? :dontknow: And don't worry clt29301. Greenville will survive. It will be okay. I promise. Nobody is going to hurt you.  :console:

Edited by gman430

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What exactly is the point of this thread anyways? :dontknow:

 

I think the name of the thread is fairly clear, the state of DT Greenville office space. 

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I think the name of the thread is fairly clear, the state of DT Greenville office space. 

 

So our CBD has a high vacancy rate. You told us so what's next? Where do we go from here clt29301? Are we doomed? Am I gonna have to pack up and move?  :scared: I'm scared. Help me. 

Edited by gman430

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So our CBD has a high vacancy rate. You told us so what's next? Where do we go from here clt29301? Are we doomed? Am I gonna have to pack up and move?  :scared: I'm scared. Help me. 

 

If you want to move, then move.  Come to Charlotte, I will show you around.

 

What's "next" Is part of the thread......what is being done to attract companies.  A few posters have provided some insight into what the city is doing.  But, while it is fun to watch construction and post pictures of cranes, if the fundamentals are not there, you are sitting on a bubble.  One has roughly 50% of the space available for lease a couple of years after opening, and, they gave away 70,000 sq feet.  When you look at those facts, it tells me that the DT Greenville office market is not strong.  But, there may be things that are happening which will reverse the course, if so, post it here.

 

So, the questions are, will Greenville be a bubble market?  How do you avoid that? 

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