Jump to content

The State of DT Greenville Office Space

clt29301

By clt29301
in Greenville

Recommended Posts

vicupstate Metropolitan Area

vicupstate

Posted
Posted

Why don't YOU enlighten us CLT90210? Anyone can state the obvious, since you live in a real city, let's hear your ideas.

BTW, the ONE vacancy is already included in the figures, so why will there be an increase in vacancy, are you expecting another recession?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 49
  • Created
  • Last Reply
MAJIKMAN Hamlet

MAJIKMAN

Posted
Posted

Stop using the one buildings as examples because I have already started that the company from Spartanburg is coming to take a large amount of that space.

But I am a realist. There are a few places thiat would probably have to be mentioned. A lot of the Wells Fargo building has a lot of office space available. Even with it being renovated a few years back. Clt could be right on the prospect of no new buildings coming after the Greenville News (Camperdown) project is completed. It could happen for a few after completion. But that's still at least three years out. So anything could happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Greenville City

Greenville

Posted
Posted

Why has every thread turned into a discussion about Charlotte, lately?

 

I don't know, especially since it's not like Charlotte is anything special.  It's a nice mid-sized city, and I like it fine, but there isn't much unique about it compared to its peer cities.  It certainly has more people and more amenities than Greenville, but it's importance is mostly restricted to the southeast.  Even then, it is overshadowed by much larger cities like Atlanta and Miami which offer a lot more in terms of jobs, diversity, world class shopping, etc.

 

If I'm choosing a city for Greenville to emulate, it certainly wouldn't be Charlotte.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I don't know, especially since it's not like Charlotte is anything special.  It's a nice mid-sized city, and I like it fine, but there isn't much unique about it compared to its peer cities.  It certainly has more people and more amenities than Greenville, but it's importance is mostly restricted to the southeast.  Even then, it is overshadowed by much larger cities like Atlanta and Miami which offer a lot more in terms of jobs, diversity, world class shopping, etc.

 

If I'm choosing a city for Greenville to emulate, it certainly wouldn't be Charlotte.

 

Actually, I think Charlotte is exactly what Greenville should look towards for a number of reasons...............First, Charlotte is not a true national city, it is a regional power but not on the scale of Atlanta.  Will it get to be  a national city, sure....most likely within the decade.   Although, there is a lot unique about Charlotte compared to its peer cities but, that is for another thread.

 

Why should Greenville look towards Charlotte.........Greenville is nothing outstanding in its peer grouping.  It has a nice Main Street but lacks the sophistication of a Charleston or the true "coolness" of Asheville.  It lacks the university/historical presence of Columbia and the historical aspects of Savannah. The south is full of small to medium sized town like Greenville that have a nice niche and a lot of these cities can point to a great "fill in the blank" as a source of pride.  Greenville has a nice DT area but outside of this small footprint, it is absolutely nothing special.  Greenville badly trails its peer cities in education, investable assets, and income levels.  And, based on this thread, it trails in the DT vacancy rate levels.

 

Like Charlotte, Greenville will have to create something without a historical basis from which to build.  How Charlotte went from being a smallish metro of around 1m in the early 1990's to a national financial center of 2.5m residents with 7 fortune 500 company headquarters 20 years later, more than any of its peer cities & top 10 nationally, would be a good blueprint for Greenville.  Greenville will never have a top 10 airport like CLT but the lessons on how to  attract business (outside of manufacturing) is important.  Like Charlotte, Greenville does not have a major research university.  Clemson is in metro Greenville but it is 30 miles away and the impact in minimal on a day to day basis.  UNCC is a little larger than Clemson but it is on the fringes of the city of Charlotte.  Charlotte is linking UNCC with light rail and Greenville is trying to deepen the ties with Clemson.  But, for both cities, the small presence of a research university is evident.  How did Charlotte overcome this to become one of the fastest growing cities (top 10 nationally).... it attracts a ton of young folks.  The city is within 150 miles of great schools like UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, and USC.  It is a very popular city on a national scale in attracting the younger crowd.  How it attracts the younger crowd should be some thing Greenville could learn from.  Learning from Charlotte how to attract good jobs will help in raising the income levels in Greenville. 

 

The DT area is another area from which Greenville could learn from Charlotte.  Charlotte has been terrific at centering the entire region around the DT area.  People want to live DT, stores like Whole Foods are coming to DT Charlotte, great diverse restaurants are opening everywhere, new parks are opening at a great rate,  and the growth is staggering (over 12 high rises will be under construction by year end with another wave to follow).  Light rail connects neighborhoods like NODA with DT and the street car will continue this connection with Elizabeth and Central Avenue.  DT Charlotte has been such a success that Atlanta studied Charlotte in addition to Dallas as rival southern cities which have grown faster than Atlanta are now attracting folks faster.  Why.....because DT Charlotte has a large employment base of over 100k employees, a growing resident population, many nodes of transportation, world class entertainment venues for sporting events and the arts and.....it is connecting the DT area with true greenways (not trails) to the immediate ring neighborhoods  and to South Carolina's  greenways.  Greenville has created an nice atmosphere but it does not have the corporate presence or connection with neighborhoods around the city or further out.  Instead of feeling like a city, Greenville still has the feel of a large "day trip" town.  Transit in Greenville is terrible and the city/county defeated the .01 sales tax.  Greenville could learn from Charlotte how to pass this tax in order to implement a transit system that not only moves people but helps to develop neighborhoods like Southend. 

 

Actually, after writing about all of the top 10 national positions that Charlotte holds, it is the perfect city for Greenville to look towards, and shows that Charlotte is more than just a southeastern city. After all, Atlanta studied what Charlotte is doing so well within the past month or two.......If it is good enough for an international city like Atlanta, a small place like Greenville could learn something as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StrangeCock Hamlet

StrangeCock

Posted
Posted

I certainly hope Greenville never becomes like Charlotte. If you got magically teleported into downtown Charlotte, it would take you 20 minutes to figure out which city you were in. It's corporate, soulless, and could pass for any other random large city. There is no character or unique charm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'd rather see Greenville remain small and have charm than see it become a sprawling, unsustainable dinosaur like Charlotte Metro.

Charlotte is much more sustainable than Greenville......by a wide margin.

DT Greenville is nice but you are claiming Charlotte sprawls while implying Greenville s compact and small. That simply is not reality. Greenville sprawls a least as much as Charlotte if not more considering Greenville County has a larger land area than Meck County with less than half the people.......with no transit and a population that is not highly educated, not a good combination for sustainability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I certainly hope Greenville never becomes like Charlotte. If you got magically teleported into downtown Charlotte, it would take you 20 minutes to figure out which city you were in. It's corporate, soulless, and could pass for any other random large city. There is no character or unique charm.

Do you think anyone would know you are in Greenville looking at the Hyatt or the Church St Bridge? The arena? The old Daniel building? Academy St? Washington St?

Charm and character are subjective but numbers aren't. DT Charlotte simply has a ton happening. If it were as sterile as you claim, people would not be spending the time DT that you see or you would not see 50 story apartment buildings at capacity. People simply want to live DT Charlotte in large numbers.....enough so that HT s DT, Whole Foods is moing as is Publix.....with more retail to follow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StrangeCock Hamlet

StrangeCock

Posted
Posted

If it were as sterile as you claim, people would not be spending the time DT that you see or you would not see 50 story apartment buildings at capacity. People simply want to live DT Charlotte in large numbers.....enough so that HT s DT, Whole Foods is moing as is Publix.....with more retail to follow.

 

"50-story apartment buildings, large numbers, Whole Foods, Publix"...aaaaaand thank you for proving my point that Charlotte is a bland, interchangeable, faceless metropolis overfilled with people and chain stores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Greenville City

Greenville

Posted
Posted

Actually, I think Charlotte is exactly what Greenville should look towards for a number of reasons...............First, Charlotte is not a true national city, it is a regional power but not on the scale of Atlanta.  Will it get to be  a national city, sure....most likely within the decade.   Although, there is a lot unique about Charlotte compared to its peer cities but, that is for another thread.

 

Why should Greenville look towards Charlotte.........Greenville is nothing outstanding in its peer grouping.  It has a nice Main Street but lacks the sophistication of a Charleston or the true "coolness" of Asheville.  It lacks the university/historical presence of Columbia and the historical aspects of Savannah. The south is full of small to medium sized town like Greenville that have a nice niche and a lot of these cities can point to a great "fill in the blank" as a source of pride.  Greenville has a nice DT area but outside of this small footprint, it is absolutely nothing special.  Greenville badly trails its peer cities in education, investable assets, and income levels.  And, based on this thread, it trails in the DT vacancy rate levels.

 

Like Charlotte, Greenville will have to create something without a historical basis from which to build.  How Charlotte went from being a smallish metro of around 1m in the early 1990's to a national financial center of 2.5m residents with 7 fortune 500 company headquarters 20 years later, more than any of its peer cities & top 10 nationally, would be a good blueprint for Greenville.  Greenville will never have a top 10 airport like CLT but the lessons on how to  attract business (outside of manufacturing) is important.  Like Charlotte, Greenville does not have a major research university.  Clemson is in metro Greenville but it is 30 miles away and the impact in minimal on a day to day basis.  UNCC is a little larger than Clemson but it is on the fringes of the city of Charlotte.  Charlotte is linking UNCC with light rail and Greenville is trying to deepen the ties with Clemson.  But, for both cities, the small presence of a research university is evident.  How did Charlotte overcome this to become one of the fastest growing cities (top 10 nationally).... it attracts a ton of young folks.  The city is within 150 miles of great schools like UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, and USC.  It is a very popular city on a national scale in attracting the younger crowd.  How it attracts the younger crowd should be some thing Greenville could learn from.  Learning from Charlotte how to attract good jobs will help in raising the income levels in Greenville. 

 

The DT area is another area from which Greenville could learn from Charlotte.  Charlotte has been terrific at centering the entire region around the DT area.  People want to live DT, stores like Whole Foods are coming to DT Charlotte, great diverse restaurants are opening everywhere, new parks are opening at a great rate,  and the growth is staggering (over 12 high rises will be under construction by year end with another wave to follow).  Light rail connects neighborhoods like NODA with DT and the street car will continue this connection with Elizabeth and Central Avenue.  DT Charlotte has been such a success that Atlanta studied Charlotte in addition to Dallas as rival southern cities which have grown faster than Atlanta are now attracting folks faster.  Why.....because DT Charlotte has a large employment base of over 100k employees, a growing resident population, many nodes of transportation, world class entertainment venues for sporting events and the arts and.....it is connecting the DT area with true greenways (not trails) to the immediate ring neighborhoods  and to South Carolina's  greenways.  Greenville has created an nice atmosphere but it does not have the corporate presence or connection with neighborhoods around the city or further out.  Instead of feeling like a city, Greenville still has the feel of a large "day trip" town.  Transit in Greenville is terrible and the city/county defeated the .01 sales tax.  Greenville could learn from Charlotte how to pass this tax in order to implement a transit system that not only moves people but helps to develop neighborhoods like Southend. 

 

Actually, after writing about all of the top 10 national positions that Charlotte holds, it is the perfect city for Greenville to look towards, and shows that Charlotte is more than just a southeastern city. After all, Atlanta studied what Charlotte is doing so well within the past month or two.......If it is good enough for an international city like Atlanta, a small place like Greenville could learn something as well.

 

Looks like I hit a nerve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

"50-story apartment buildings, large numbers, Whole Foods, Publix"...aaaaaand thank you for proving my point that Charlotte is a bland, interchangeable, faceless metropolis overfilled with people and chain stores.

If you stopped trying to use every word to make a point that does not exist, you would understand that numerous grocery stores are the result of people living close to town. I am glad to see Whole Foods coming, it adds to the 24 hour live/work/play city. 50 story apartment buildings are not interchangeable. However, almost all of DT Greenville is duplicated in other cities......single A baseball stadiums, local shops with high turnover rates, 4-5 story wood framed apartment buildings.....etc. what is unique to Greenville is a high DT vacancy rate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ausrutherford Burg

ausrutherford

Posted
Posted

ICAR has not developed in the 10 years to suggest that it will become a large college anchor. Greenville is trying to tap into an industry that is just not going to happen in SC.

 

ICAR is expanding, Proterra is expanding, BMW is expanding. We have Bosch, ZF, and countless other suppliers. Daimler is building a plant in Charleston and we are in the running for the JLR plant.

 

Pretty sure we are doing well is relation to the region...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

ICAR is a research campus not a college anchor.

If you read up a couple of posts, I answered a post who claimed it to be a college anchor. Whatever you want to call it, the campus has not been a great success story. It has trended a lot like the global trans park in Kinston NC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clt29301 Whistle-Stop

clt29301

Posted
  • Author
Posted

ICAR is expanding, Proterra is expanding, BMW is expanding. We have Bosch, ZF, and countless other suppliers. Daimler is building a plant in Charleston and we are in the running for the JLR plant.

Pretty sure we are doing well is relation to the region...

ICAR is not generating a lot of growth. Proterra is a science experiment for companies like GM who want the technology more than selling a bus for $1m. The financials for Proterra are terrible. BMW will expand more but at lower rates. BMW is expanding in Mexico as well and will grow that more than the Spartanburg plant.

The JLR plant will be small wherever it is built, neither manufacturer is large enough to get excited over.....both are niche player in the auto world.

Yes, Greenville is growing, not as fast as other parts of SC and southeast, but it is growing. However, the list of challenges facing Greenville is also very long. You are not going to meet the challenges by having an arrogant attitude as seen on this board by boasting that "we don't want to be city X, it is bland, unsustainable and not Greenville". Greenville is not in a position to be arrogant, it simply has too many shortcomings to be arrogant. It still is a manufacturing based economy and depends on government assistance for a lot of projects in the city. The area needs to go after higher wage industries if it will be sustainable long term. What happens if BMW has some slippage in sales....or if, as expected, Proterra never makes a profit and the technology is the only thing remaining....it will go the way of Certus. BMW is sustainable but the constant historical expansion at the plant is behind you, especially with Mexico.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.