Nashville Yards, 15 acres/4 million sq. ft./ $1 billion, Phase I: Grand Hyatt Hotel (25 stories), Phase II: Amazon (26 & 22 stories), Phase III: AEG District (4 K theater, 34 & 35 story apts); Phase IV: Pinnacle Tower (35 stories), Amazon 3 (43)

[Guest]

I appreciate all of the expert information given as to why tall buildings are so rare in Nashville.  Lord knows I'm nothing more than an armchair critic, so information like what NoChesterHester just shared is eye-opening.  It really does shine a light on the issue and show how much more daunting a feat it is to build that high.  That being said though, at the risk of sounding like a whiny little child... all the other cities get to have big tall buildings despite all those issues... why can't we??!  [emoji14]

Residential and hotel buildings are about 10' floor to floor. That means you need around 45-50 stories to break the 500' height. That's a ton of density.

Office buildings are about 14-15' floor to floor meaning you need 34-37 stories to break the 500' height

A 35 story office building would be about 875,000 SF. The total downtown office market is about 11,000,000 SF. That means to break the barrier you would be taking a huge risk by adding 8% to the overall market in one building. We just aren't a big enough market yet to justify that without a major new user coming to town.

A typical residential tower building has about 12 units per floor. So at 47 floors you have over 560 units to rent or sell. That would be by far the largest single building in town, and also another huge risk when we have a grand total of about 3,000 people in the CBD.

We will get there, but we still have a ways to go as a market. That's why.

[titanhog]

^^This is why a true mixed-use tower would be great.  Hotel on the bottom...office in the middle...condo/apartments up top.

[Guest]

^^This is why a true mixed-use tower would be great.  Hotel on the bottom...office in the middle...condo/apartments up top.

There is a good reason you don't see many of those. Very difficult to finance (next to impossible). Lending is still set up in silos and not really ready for those kinds of arrangements. The Multifamily lender is terrified that a big office vacancy will put his building in foreclosure. Reverse is true of office.

[LA_TN]

7 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

I appreciate all of the expert information given as to why tall buildings are so rare in Nashville.  Lord knows I'm nothing more than an armchair critic, so information like what NoChesterHester just shared is eye-opening.  It really does shine a light on the issue and show how much more daunting a feat it is to build that high.  That being said though, at the risk of sounding like a whiny little child... all the other cities get to have big tall buildings despite all those issues... why can't we??!  

Der is 3-4 story honky tonks now and some'm newins gonna b 5-6 stories. Boy, i say, boy, how tall ya reckon is nuff stairs to carry up a gitar???

[markhollin]

Nashville Post's coverage of the Nashville Yards announcement, which includes some larger version of renderings:

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20864893/nashville-yards

 

[Jamie Hall]

Big update on this project in the Tennessean on Monday's cover:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/06/19/large-music-venue-movie-theater-part-planned-1-b-nashville-yards-project/401950001/

Includes potential 4,000-seat music venue, multi-screen Regal movie theater and additional entertainment and dining spots. All under the AEG umbrella.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Jamie Hall

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, Jamie Hall said:

Big update on this project in the Tennessean on Monday's cover:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/06/19/large-music-venue-movie-theater-part-planned-1-b-nashville-yards-project/401950001/

Includes potential 4,000-seat music venue, multi-screen Regal movie theater and additional entertainment and dining spots. All under the AEG umbrella.

Under Los Angeles-based AEG's plans, the music venue would anchor a mixed-use entertainment district on a four-acre portion of the overall 15-acre former LifeWay Christian Resources campus. AEG's plans for the land under contract with Nashville Yards' master-developer Southwest Value Partners also calls for an 850-seat Regal Cinemas theater complex, a 600-700-capacity live entertainment club and a 240-room boutique hotel with other entertainment and up to a dozen food and beverage offerings.

Overall, Nashville Yards is expected to include more than 4 million square feet of new retail, hospitality, office, residential and entertainment uses worth more than $1 billion. Southwest Value has partnered with Dallas-based Lincoln Property Co. as its main development partner for office, retail and multifamily buildings on two parcels with Dimension Development Co. to co-develop a 23-story, 600-room Hyatt Regency hotel.

[markhollin]

Some more crisper renderings from today's Tennessean:

 

 

The first Master Plan diagram.  Wish the copy was larger...very difficult to read.  Will work on finding a better version.

 

Some larger versions of these renderings from the NasvhilleYards.com website:

[smeagolsfree]

All of the following plus the above TN story was information that was embargoed until today. I figured there would be push back about the Sullivan tower which will probably surprise the developers, but Nashville historic is always too little, too late. Reactionary instead of working with developers and others to preserve buildings. Two item of interest;  the fact that AEG, Lincoln, and Dimension will have financial stakes in the project. And, the major thing that I spoke to William about is the fact that the time table is way too aggressive. They are looking at a 5 to 7 year build out. So that means they want to fill 4 million SQ.FT. of retail, office, hotel, entertainment space, and living space in a short time. Pretty ambitious for any city.

My fear is that they start demolition of all of the property at the same time and in the middle of the project the economy falls through the bottom and we have 15 acres of rubble and vacant land for years to come.

 

I am just trying to raise a few legitimate concerns. All of these projects including the Lifeway project is around 200 acres of development within two miles of the core.

Below are the large projects proposed.

Can Nashville absorb this much space with the following also in the works?????

River North 125 acres

5th + Broad / office, retail, entertainment, residential

Hensler/Eakin on Rolling Mill Hill/ retail, office, residential

One City, 18 acres/ hotel, retail, office, residential

Capitol View/ multi acre project/ office, retail, hotel, residential

Second and Demonbreun/ retail, hotel, residential

WES, we all know the story there. who knows what will happen with this.

Demonbreun Hill, 5 acres or so/ office, residential, retail, hotel

12th and Demonbreun/ retail, residential, office

There could be more on the way!

Nashville Post take

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20865053/massive-downtown-project-will-be-significant-on-many-levels

NBJ take.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2017/06/18/entertainment-giant-targets-regal-concert-venue.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2017/06/18/inside-billion-dollar-nashville-yards-project.html

 

[smeagolsfree]

One other item is this.

 

The Hyatt Regency will not start until late this year or January of next year.

[nashwatcher]

5 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

One other item is this.

 

The Hyatt Regency will not start until late this year or January of next year.

In terms of whether we can absorb all of this development, is it really a problem if it all gets built and it takes a while to absorb it? Might hurt the developers bottom line a bit but seems like it would be great for the city to have all these assets around the core? 

[smeagolsfree]

I would hate to see a bunch of empty high-rises around town. I think the market will dictate what will happen, and some of these projects simply will not happen, at least in the timeline that has first been set.

[dmillsphoto]

34 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I would hate to see a bunch of empty high-rises around town. I think the market will dictate what will happen, and some of these projects simply will not happen, at least in the timeline that has first been set.

I think the best thing to do is start looking at who has money and who doesn't. Of the list above, only 3 have enough money (that has been published, at least) to get their projects out of the ground. As much as we want something like 2nd Ave partners to come to fruition, I think that's going to be hard given that we don't know what the financials look like. Hensler/Eakin has legs. 5th & Commerce is obviously a go, as is Capitol View & One C1ty (these two shouldn't even be in comparison to the rest due to the different markets they intend to serve). The rest are pies in the sky at this point, in my opinion.

[markhollin]

I agree with dmillsphoto. It's all about who can get their's off the ground first.  Southwest Ventures has deep pockets.  They wouldn't have invested $125 million in the purchase of the land if they weren't serious. Now bringing AEG into the mix makes them even more aggressive.  The latter wants to get a serious slice of the ever-growing Nashville tourist/entertainment dollar, and all of the elements like the huge theater, club, cinemas, and a boutique hotel in this complex will most certainly help them do that.

Along with the Hyatt Regency and the entertainment elements, my guess is that the mid-rise office and smaller-sized residential structures will be built early on. The tall office tower and two tall residential buildings will come later in the schedule as the demand grows.  If the economy slows, or there is a glut of office/residential downtown, then they can scale back their designs accordingly. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they didn't buy the Southern Baptist HQ which is now available, as well as the other 1.5 acres that borders the LifeWay plot that is now reportedly available. 

There is no doubt these guys are as serious as a heart attack in their approach.  They are "all in" getting this thing on the move.  Will be interesting to see how River North, KVB One (Mainland), Demonbreun Hill, and Second Avenue Partners respond.  This may also scare off One World Hotel (which also planned a large theater as part of the proposal), WES, and 12th & Demonbreun from proceeding further at this point. OneC1TY and Capitol View seem to be rolling along pretty well already, and should be filled-out within the next several years.  

 

[timmay143]

Build it and they will come.  I definitely think Nashville can absorb it.  So far we have nothing like it.  I think you're going to need pockets of similar type developments like these, if you want truly dense and walkable areas.  I think Nashville can handle it.  It already does to some extent.  Having multiple areas of activity is part of what is making Nashville boom right now.  With the new residential coming online, they are going to need practical things nearby to properly thrive.  These developments do that plus some for vistors and residents in other areas of the city.  Now we just need to figure out the best way to connect intercity.  I don't think all these happen.  I see at least Mazda, Lifeway, and of course the old NCC.  Would love to see the Easy Bank get a crazy development like these.  That would be another game changer and another level for Nashville.  It's not my late 90s early 2000s Nashville I grew up in for sure!

[Ingram]

I don't think many if any will be scared off. If developers tucked tail and ran everytime someone else said they were going to build something the developer would never get anything built. They would also have wasted all of the time, focus, effort, and money already invested into the development. Plus developers are narcissists. They want to build as many monuments as possible as symbols of their achievement.

It is more a matter of getting financed and if necessary getting the minimum amount of tenants or presales required.

[urbanplanet17]

Being from Detroit, where similar projects (few and far between) have been pure fantasy at best, I personally like to take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. Until a shovel hits the ground, I assume it's nothing more than a pipe dream and not happening. That way, you don't get your hopes up and you can be pleasantly surprised if it does eventually happen.

That being said, Nashville's in a unique situation where there's fairly rapid (for its size) population growth AND a severe lack of desirable residential / office space. Thus, while I would normally agree with some of the concerns raised here, there's enough reason to be cautiously optimistic in most of these proposals eventually coming to fruition in some form. It's more so a matter of the national economy not going in the crapper, which is something none of us can control.

If there are any projects I would be worried about, it would be more hotels (I.E. The Joseph, One World, Hyatt Regency, etc.) given all of the rooms coming on line right now.

Edited June 19, 2017 by urbanplanet17

[titanhog]

Gotta believe it will now be quite a while before someone is willing to buy the Tennessean site and build something there.  I bet it's another 10 years before we see something developed on that land.

I do wonder about the 2nd Ave Partners project and Buckingham Gulch (two of my favs).  Gotta believe those are now iffy.

[markhollin]

As exciting as Nashville Yards is overall as far as variety of elements and walkability, I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the actual look of the renderings so far.  Extremely boxy, with mostly grey and light blue glass walls. In fact, the western side of the Hyatt Regency when approaching across the Broadway Viaduct is downright ominous---and not in a good way.

At least some of the other buildings have some indentations and and balconies...but still, I wish there were more than just 90 degree angles everywhere.  Maybe when more renderings become available there will be some additional creativity.  

[markhollin]

Here is a slightly crisper version of the site diagram:

 

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, titanhog said:

Gotta believe it will now be quite a while before someone is willing to buy the Tennessean site and build something there.  I bet it's another 10 years before we see something developed on that land.

I do wonder about the 2nd Ave Partners project and Buckingham Gulch (two of my favs).  Gotta believe those are now iffy.

You never know as the TN site is close to the hot areas like Nashville Yards, The Gulch and Capitol View. If I were going to invest in property, that is a chunk I would be looking at right now instead of 10 years down the road. Who knows what real estate prices will look like then.

[titanhog]

2 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

You never know as the TN site is close to the hot areas like Nashville Yards, The Gulch and Capitol View. If I were going to invest in property, that is a chunk I would be looking at right now instead of 10 years down the road. Who knows what real estate prices will look like then.

Yeah...I guess I could see someone buying it now...but actually building something on it soon seems like a long shot.  Will be fun to see what happens with it, though.

[smeagolsfree]

8 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Yeah...I guess I could see someone buying it now...but actually building something on it soon seems like a long shot.  Will be fun to see what happens with it, though.

It depends if the price is right. W e ae not sure how much Gannett is asking, but I am sure it is not cheap. The going rate is somewhere between 125 and 150 a square Foot. Some areas a little less, some areas a little more. The block that the Smithfield project was going to go on at 6th and Ash was 150 a Sq Ft, and I think they were way too ambitious asking that price there. The land in which the Embassy Suites will sit, I believe was north of 400 a sq. ft.

[titanhog]

40 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

It depends if the price is right. W e ae not sure how much Gannett is asking, but I am sure it is not cheap. The going rate is somewhere between 125 and 150 a square Foot. Some areas a little less, some areas a little more. The block that the Smithfield project was going to go on at 6th and Ash was 150 a Sq Ft, and I think they were way too ambitious asking that price there. The land in which the Embassy Suites will sit, I believe was north of 400 a sq. ft.

Good grief!!  $400?!  No wonder they're going tall.

[smeagolsfree]

If they want 150 a Sq Ft for the Tennessean campus which is just over 5 acres I think, then that is close to 40 million.