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71-unit housing development eyed for Southeast Grand Rapids neighborhood

GR_Urbanist

By GR_Urbanist
in Grand Rapids

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x99 Burg

x99

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You keep using total cost of each unit, but what is the cost per square foot? New construction of a mid-rise is at least $150 - $160/sf, and that's for bare bones finishes. Then the "retail value" is $200/sf and up. Mid rises need multiple stairwells, elevators, common areas, wide hallways per code, fire suppression, security doors in most cases. All of these things add to the square foot cost of each unit, way more than a home or townhouse. Are you sure you're not using retail value and not "cost?"

 

Reported costs on the recent market-rate stuff Orion built was around $150,000 per unit, if you assume about 1000 square feet per unit and assume ground floor retail replaced housing units.  Same with these projects--reported costs.  They cost more to build than market rate stuff, in general, and Dave seems to acknowledge that.  Whether we should be spending that is a larger social debate beyond the bounds of this particular project.  LINC may be a fine operator, but this building is ugly.  I gave ICCF a pass because they at least try to build things that will not be quickly outdated and will potentially have a longer-term residual value.

 

The bigger problem with this project, and the Madison-area projects, arguably, is that they both continue to concentrate low income housing in already disadvantaged areas.  This project roughly doubles the historic density of this area.  Are there 25 year old projects or this nature that anyone can point to that have actually succeeded in improving the area?   If not, the idea that this helps do anything other than provide housing at an extremely high cost is specious.  Yes, it is nice to see some construction, but it may not have the capacity to do much other than fill up dirt.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Reported costs on the recent market-rate stuff Orion built was around $150,000 per unit, if you assume about 1000 square feet per unit and assume ground floor retail replaced housing units.  Same with these projects--reported costs.  They cost more to build than market rate stuff, in general, and Dave seems to acknowledge that.  Whether we should be spending that is a larger social debate beyond the bounds of this particular project.  LINC may be a fine operator, but this building is ugly.  I gave ICCF a pass because they at least try to build things that will not be quickly outdated and will potentially have a longer-term residual value.

 

The bigger problem with this project, and the Madison-area projects, arguably, is that they both continue to concentrate low income housing in already disadvantaged areas.  This project roughly doubles the historic density of this area.  Are there 25 year old projects or this nature that anyone can point to that have actually succeeded in improving the area?   If not, the idea that this helps do anything other than provide housing at an extremely high cost is specious.  Yes, it is nice to see some construction, but it may not have the capacity to do much other than fill up dirt.

 

If you're referring to the Eastown Flats project, they don't average anywhere near 1000 sf. 1 BR's are about 650, 2 BR's around 800 - 900. Those buildings are most likely close to $180 - $190/sf, if you were to sell them as condos. 

 

I don't think they do cost more to build than market rate, except that a government funded project may have more code requirements. 

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ModSquad Hamlet

ModSquad

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Reported costs on the recent market-rate stuff Orion built was around $150,000 per unit, if you assume about 1000 square feet per unit and assume ground floor retail replaced housing units.  Same with these projects--reported costs.  They cost more to build than market rate stuff, in general, and Dave seems to acknowledge that.  Whether we should be spending that is a larger social debate beyond the bounds of this particular project.  LINC may be a fine operator, but this building is ugly.  I gave ICCF a pass because they at least try to build things that will not be quickly outdated and will potentially have a longer-term residual value.

 

The bigger problem with this project, and the Madison-area projects, arguably, is that they both continue to concentrate low income housing in already disadvantaged areas.  This project roughly doubles the historic density of this area.  Are there 25 year old projects or this nature that anyone can point to that have actually succeeded in improving the area?   If not, the idea that this helps do anything other than provide housing at an extremely high cost is specious.  Yes, it is nice to see some construction, but it may not have the capacity to do much other than fill up dirt.

X99, Let's keep an eye on the Madison Square/Southtown Area to test out your question as to whether or not projects like this succeed in improving the area.  First of it depends on what one looks for in regard to "improving the area."  LINC, formerly Liighthouse intentionally uses local contractors and suppliers from the neighborhood in which they are building.  Of the first $1Million of development completed by Lighthouse 93% of it went to a contractor or supplier located within a 1/2 mile radius of the intersection of Madison and Hall.  Grand Valley did a study of this type of intentional development and found that every $1 spent on this development, resulted in $2.75 in neighborhood/local economy.  I can point to several contractors in the neighborhood that exist today and are doing quite well because of this intentionality.

 

10 years ago before any of this development started I decided to "put my money where my mouth is" and bought an abandoned 5,000 square foot commercial building on Madison just north of LINC's new offices.  My wife and I invested $325,000 in this building.  We have helped incubate 2 new businesses both locally owned and managed and our building appraised for $400,000.  A 4 unit apartment building across the street from us that was condemned was purchased and is now on the market for $100K.  A local very successful custom T-shirt designer/printer just bought a commercial building south of Hall and has moved his company into the lower portion of the building and is living upstairs.

 

The Duthler family just bought the shopping center on the corner of Madison and Hall and is in the middle of a $1.5 Million renovation.

 

A major GR developed just purchased the former PB Gast Headquarters at 1515 Madison and is working on a major development there.

 

I predict that the 6 major developments in the Madison Square Neighborhood: Avenue Apartments, Madison Square Townhomes, LINC Offices and retail space, Southtown Square, the Senior Housing on Hall by Dwelling Place, and the LINC Townhomes will result in significant additional private investment in this neighborhood.  These are catalyst projects.

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x99 Burg

x99

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I predict that the 6 major developments in the Madison Square Neighborhood: Avenue Apartments, Madison Square Townhomes, LINC Offices and retail space, Southtown Square, the Senior Housing on Hall by Dwelling Place, and the LINC Townhomes will result in significant additional private investment in this neighborhood.  These are catalyst projects.

 

Well, that's the kind of stuff I like to see.  I can complain about the absurd costs all day long, but it isn't going to do anything to change the way the federal and state governments spend money.  The key to me, then, is whether we're actually seeing a benefit from these projects in terms of improving the areas where they are constructed above and beyond the money it takes to build them.  If the areas stay run down, blighted, and primarily low income, the projects do not do that much in the way of improving the plight of those who live there--better to build mixed income projects elsewhere (despite neighbor griping).   If, by building these projects carefully, we can somehow change the environment over the long haul, I think we've still managed to get at least some return.

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MJLO City

MJLO

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Well, that's the kind of stuff I like to see.  I can complain about the absurd costs all day long, but it isn't going to do anything to change the way the federal and state governments spend money.  The key to me, then, is whether we're actually seeing a benefit from these projects in terms of improving the areas where they are constructed above and beyond the money it takes to build them.  If the areas stay run down, blighted, and primarily low income, the projects do not do that much in the way of improving the plight of those who live there--better to build mixed income projects elsewhere (despite neighbor griping).   If, by building these projects carefully, we can somehow change the environment over the long haul, I think we've still managed to get at least some return.

 

This particular project being between Wealthy and Franklin seems like it would capitalize on the gentrification in the East Hills and perhaps encourage more of it to seep further south.  I can see it helping spur more in the neighborhood. 

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ModSquad Hamlet

ModSquad

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Like it or don't like it, does not matter to me.  What matters to me is that LINC held numerous meetings with neighborhood residents and business owners looking over designs for this corridor.  This design is the result of a community planning process that included over 200 people.  

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Like it or don't like it, does not matter to me.  What matters to me is that LINC held numerous meetings with neighborhood residents and business owners looking over designs for this corridor.  This design is the result of a community planning process that included over 200 people.  

 

Design by committee: the best kind. :) j/k

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gvsusean Burg

gvsusean

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those colors..... and the huge blank wall on the side street, yikes...  i think changing the colors, materials (is that vinyl siding?), and windows changed (add some kind of character not just plane slide windows), it would be fine

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GR_Urbanist Burg

GR_Urbanist

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This project may not pass the conservative Dutch architectural test, but I grew up on Eastern Ave., and view this as a welcomed project to the area.   

 

It wont pass the "good taste" test. Either the "architects" just tossed a sop to the tone-deaf people that showed up to give input, in order to make them feel like they are part of the process, or that firm is telling future clients that the people that work there have no design sense.

 

Either way, it is a sure bet that those corner buildings will not look like that in the end, and they wont use that color selection either.

 

Right now the thing looks like a gaudy mess. If the city will stop great projects in other parts of town for the smallest design issues, then they had better be screaming for some aesthetic changes for this.

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x99 Burg

x99

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Right now the thing looks like a gaudy mess. If the city will stop great projects in other parts of town for the smallest design issues, then they had better be screaming for some aesthetic changes for this.

 

Hey, it could have been worse.  Although I'm not quite sure how.  But I'm sure it's possible.  Wait.  I've got it:

 

ANB2152.jpg

or

favela-painting.jpg

and last but not least...

Header1.jpg

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