Atlanta Off-Topic

[Designerbee]

Here's my responses to selceted vents:

6- I think this is because they are already so used to driving their car and find no real reason to take transit or another mode of transportation if the one they have works well. Of course, they might also just not want to use MARTA because they might be urban NIMBY's

or MARTA sucks and doesn't go anywhere that you want to go. Its not safe to walk from my apartment to where I need to go alone and downtown/ midtown is still just as spread out as the surrounding areas. When I moved here, I had no idea living in the middle of the city would be so much like living in the suburbs. The sprawl is sad and I hope it continues to fill in.. and quickly.

Aside from Atlantic Station - there is no shopping downtown/ midtown. You have to drive everywhere to get to it.

Ugh.. I am so disappointed with Atlanta. I really had high hopes.

[atlmangum]

or MARTA sucks and doesn't go anywhere that you want to go. Its not safe to walk from my apartment to where I need to go alone and downtown/ midtown is still just as spread out as the surrounding areas. When I moved here, I had no idea living in the middle of the city would be so much like living in the suburbs. The sprawl is sad and I hope it continues to fill in.. and quickly.

Aside from Atlantic Station - there is no shopping downtown/ midtown. You have to drive everywhere to get to it.

Ugh.. I am so disappointed with Atlanta. I really had high hopes.

I agree. MARTA does suck. It doesn't go anywhere you would really want to go unless you just happen to work AND live within a 5 minute walk from a station. The only time I ever take MARTA is if I'm going to a game or concert. I still have friends who live downtown that never even consider using MARTA and to me that is just plain sad (for MARTA). I do think Atlanta is starting to fill in, though, it still has a long way to go. Where I live in Chicago, (what I consider to the the Midtown area of Chicago) within a 5 minute walk I pass 3 grocery stores, 2 Blockbusters, a Best Buy, and about 30 resturaunts and bars. Hopefully Atlanta/Midtown will have that kind of development in the next 20 years.

[Martinman]

I agree. MARTA does suck. It doesn't go anywhere you would really want to go unless you just happen to work AND live within a 5 minute walk from a station. The only time I ever take MARTA is if I'm going to a game or concert. I still have friends who live downtown that never even consider using MARTA and to me that is just plain sad (for MARTA). I do think Atlanta is starting to fill in, though, it still has a long way to go. Where I live in Chicago, (what I consider to the the Midtown area of Chicago) within a 5 minute walk I pass 3 grocery stores, 2 Blockbusters, a Best Buy, and about 30 resturaunts and bars. Hopefully Atlanta/Midtown will have that kind of development in the next 20 years.

Well this is the reason some of us are so excited about the development happening in Midtown and other areas of the city. It has a great chance and is developing into that type of urban neighborhood.

[Andrea]

I agree. MARTA does suck. It doesn't go anywhere you would really want to go unless you just happen to work AND live within a 5 minute walk from a station.

Back in the late 80's I decided to move my office closer to home, and settled on Resurgens Plaza because (a) I could walk there and (b) it is literally built on top of the Lenox MARTA station. I thought, "Gee, this will be great -- out of town visitors can zip straight here from the airport, and people can get here from downtown in no time!"

I don't believe I ever had one single person come to my office via MARTA in over 5 years. I often took the train downtown myself, but found it virtually impossible to persuade people to ride the train. Even employees who worked intown still preferred to drive.

I really don't blame this on MARTA. Atlanta (like most American cities) is simply a car culture, and I doubt that is likely to change significantly in the forseeable future.

[Student]

Well what people don't really understand is that you can take the bus to the train station and then get off wherever you want to go. If that's not walkable, ride the bus located in that area.

____________IN MY MOST HONEST OPINION_____________

---------------------NOT AN ATTACK---------------------

Many people who don't actually ride the bus or train daily shouldn't have a thing to say about it because talking about it and living it systematically are two totally different things. And why won't someone approach MARTA with their ideas, and complaints?

Aah, I can see the Boycott now.......

[Lady Celeste]

I also think that if the bus or subway is not dropping the person off right in front of where they want to go then they have a problem with it. I would think a person who takes the time to look for a residence intown would also take the time to ensure that their place of business or employer is also within easy access to public transportation. That is if you are trying to be a proponent of Marta.

If you live in the Metropolis and work in Kennesaw then of course Marta is not going to go where you need it to go. I know for me, if I took the time to find a home in the Metropolis, I would probably either work in downtown, midtown, Buckhead, the Perimeter Center Area or I would be a flight attendant whose home base is Atlanta.

If I don't take initiatives myself to ensure that everything I need is within public transportations scope then I get a car and try not to complain about Marta....or move to the suburbs because I have set my life up to be as such.

Andrea's last sentence on her currently last post on this thread sums it up perfectly.

[ironchapman]

I also think that if the bus or subway is not dropping the person off right in front of where they want to go then they have a problem with it. I would think a person who takes the time to look for a residence intown would also take the time to ensure that their place of business or employer is also within easy access to public transportation. That is if you are trying to be a proponent of Marta.

If you live in the Metropolis and work in Kennesaw then of course Marta is not going to go where you need it to go. I know for me, if I took the time to find a home in the Metropolis, I would probably either work in downtown, midtown, Buckhead, the Perimeter Center Area or I would be a flight attendant whose home base is Atlanta.

If I don't take initiatives myself to ensure that everything I need is within public transportations scope then I get a car and try not to complain about Marta....or move to the suburbs because I have set my life up to be as such.

Andrea's last sentence on her currently last post on this thread sums it up perfectly.

I agree.

My parents drive from Douglasville to Cobb County every day almost. We don't have much of a use for MARTA then, but we do use it whenever we get the chance while we are in the city. We park our cars at one of the stations and ride to the station nearest our destination (in many cases, the Dome or Turner Field nowadays, though we have taken it to Grant Park and the High Museum a few times)

[Student]

Does anyone know the name of the statue in my signature? I took the picture myself outside the Georgia Dome and found the statue very interesting.

[Student]

Does anyone know the name of the statue in my signature? I took the picture myself outside the Georgia Dome and found the statue very interesting.

[Newnan_Eric]

Does anyone know what happened to Deacon Burton's? It was a soul food restaurant in Inman Park years ago. You'd go into this ramshackle place, Deacon Burton himself would greet you at the door. He was an elderly black man that looked about a 150-years old. The clientele was mixed, but there were always plenty of "suits" in there having lunch and making deals. In the kitchen there were a number of large black women cooking fired chicken in lard in large iron skillets. Man, that was some of the best chicken I ever had.

It was just one of those places that definately had the character of what Atlanta was like for a long time. A place where the black and white culture mixed, but no too much.

Anyway, they had some good food. Anyone know of some other good places in town like it?

[Student]

What about that Mansion on Peachtree developement?

[atlmangum]

Another problem with the MARTA is that the Buses do not make enough stops. When I lived in Atlanta I drove everywhere (like most Atlantans.); but when I moved to Chicago I sold my car and now I ride the bus/train everywhere. This is because there are multiple bus routes on almost every street. Unless it is 2:00 in the morning you only have to wait between 5 and 10 minutes for one to come by. Also, one other thing that makes a big difference are the cabs. Like in NY City, Chicago has cabs EVERYWHERE. Good luck finding one in Atlanta unless you are in Buckhead at 2:00 AM on a Friday or Saturday night. I think the city should start to increase the number of cabs in the areas that they are trying to promote less driving and more alternate means of transportaion. I went from having to pay a nasty car payment, gas, insurance and wear and tear bills to about $90 dollars a month on my bus card and cab expenses. You do the math

[terminus]

the problem with the bus service is ridership, which is low. This is due to the fact when "urban flight" occurred in Atlanta it left only the poor behind who were reliant on public transportation. Public perception of MARTA is that it is "for the poor" and precludes many new, well-to-do residents from riding it.

therefore MARTA is left with this continual cycle which prevents it from increasing services. MARTA must simultaneously change it's image and increase service. that's a tough proposition with our current funding mechanisms.

But I don't believe buses are necessarily the solution. People don't like them. I live in Brooklyn where everybody (rich and poor, black and white) use public transportation. Being from Atlanta, I love it. But I'll go out of my way to take a train over a bus.

Atlanta was not an industrial city like Chicago or New York. Its development revolved around the streetcar system which (before the car) was widely used and successful. It doesn't (and will never) have the density to support a subway system. MARTA rail was designed for commuters, not intown transit.

For the short term, i think MARTA should invest in some trolley buses like the ones used by GA Tech. They should run these trolleys along the same routes as the old streetcar system (Ponce, Boulevard/Monroe, Moreland, Highland, Marietta St, Piedmont, etc). This would create an intuitive system of transportation which is convenient to all intown neighborhoods. This system would be "something new" and may increase the use of public transportation. Maybe one day (when funds are available) Atlanta can rebuild it streetcar network.

just my opinion...

[teshadoh]

^ I view part of the problem with the current bus system is that it DOES use the old streetcar system. This is my primary criticism with the bus network, that when streetcars were dismantled & even after the creation of MARTA, they kept those same lines. In many cases it does work - but there are a number of bus lines that seemingly go 'nowhere'.

Otherwise - I agree with the shuttle approach rather than the current mass transport approach - mainly due to lack of density in the city center. What I would like is this: arterial based routing that serves a specific street. This is oddly lacking now - except in certain cases, but you can't take a bus up Boulevard for example. My other recomendation is a regional / town center network approach. Link places of interest to one another, such as a Emory to North Dekalb Mall route.

Otherwise, MARTA's bus system is somewhat of a beotchized collection of old bus routes & new ones. They have since retrofitted those routes into the rail network, creating a spoke system. But in the city it simply doesn't work - no one wants to transfer if they could just stay on the bus straight to their destination. But MARTA uses the bus system to 'force' people to ride the rail line.

Terminus - welcome to UP, I've noticed your name popping up on the boards the past few weeks & I had incorrectly thought you were a SSP forummer named Terminus. But even if you aren't - welcome.

[Student]

Another problem with the MARTA is that the Buses do not make enough stops.

I always thought the buses made too many stops.

[Andrea]

MARTA is just bewildering. Let's say I want to meet up with my friends Beth, who lives in Stone Mountain, and Jack, who lives in Roswell. We want to hook up for dinner in Buckhead at 7:00 p.m., then check out Atlantic Station briefly, and then head over to the Earl in East Atlanta to hear one our favorite bands.

But we don't have cars and therefore decide to simply use public transportation. How do we figure out which trains and buses to take? What time will we have to leave home to arrive at our destinations? If the show at the Earl ends at 11:30 p.m., what time are we likely to get home?

You'd almost have to be a rocket surgeon just to figure out the routes and coordinate everything. And I shudder to think how much time we'd spend in transit. Would we be safe? How much would we spend on fares? How late in the evening and how frequently do the trains and buses run? What happens if it starts raining?

Oh yeah, and since we're all Fulton/DeKalb residents and have been paying for MARTA for the last 30 years, how much value are we getting for our support and investment in the system?

[ironchapman]

^ I see your point. MARTA can be a pain at times.

Of course, it might take a rocket surgeon just to figure out the city's streets, too.

[atlmangum]

What MARTA needs (and I think the beltline might solve this problem) to do is to create a "Perimeter" that goes around the city, with connecting trains to the suburban cities (Decatur already has one, but places like Roswell, Northlake, Kennesaw, Douglasville, Newnan.) Using Andrea's example, her friend in Roswell would pick the train up at the Roswell station, take it to the "perimeter" and transfer to meet up in Buckhead. MARTA tried to do this with their Sandy Springs, but again, your destinations are limited. A "perimeter" would make any major location in Atlanta easy to get to. But alas, funds are limited

[ironchapman]

What MARTA needs (and I think the beltline might solve this problem) to do is to create a "Perimeter" that goes around the city, with connecting trains to the suburban cities (Decatur already has one, but places like Roswell, Northlake, Kennesaw, Douglasville, Newnan.)

Also, I don't think some of those cities would welcome the trains.

Douglasville might, as Douglas County has never really made a stand on MARTA or commuter rail, unlike Cobb County.

[Student]

MARTA is just bewildering. Let's say I want to meet up with my friends Beth, who lives in Stone Mountain, and Jack, who lives in Roswell. We want to hook up for dinner in Buckhead at 7:00 p.m., then check out Atlantic Station briefly, and then head over to the Earl in East Atlanta to hear one our favorite bands.

But we don't have cars and therefore decide to simply use public transportation. How do we figure out which trains and buses to take? What time will we have to leave home to arrive at our destinations? If the show at the Earl ends at 11:30 p.m., what time are we likely to get home?

You'd almost have to be a rocket surgeon just to figure out the routes and coordinate everything. And I shudder to think how much time we'd spend in transit. Would we be safe? How much would we spend on fares? How late in the evening and how frequently do the trains and buses run? What happens if it starts raining?

Oh yeah, and since we're all Fulton/DeKalb residents and have been paying for MARTA for the last 30 years, how much value are we getting for our support and investment in the system?

I guess Jack and Beth better use God-Given-walking-Transit to the nearest Microwave because they are outta luck. And hopefully they have on Demand with Comcast, and they can watch a concert on TV!

I'm just joking, you are absolutely right.

[terminus]

^ I view part of the problem with the current bus system is that it DOES use the old streetcar system. This is my primary criticism with the bus network, that when streetcars were dismantled & even after the creation of MARTA, they kept those same lines. In many cases it does work - but there are a number of bus lines that seemingly go 'nowhere'.

Does it really? I've never been able to find a master MARTA bus route map. Trying to find which route you should take on MARTAs web site is next to impossible. You have to click on all the different routes (or routes that server a train station) and hope you find the right one.

And that's exactly the problem. The system is not intuitive. If you were to dedicate lines to major thoroughfares that go through or abut most neighborhoods and (for the most part) these routes ran linearly (crisscrossing one another at various intersections), figuring out the system would be easily. Of course these lines would need to run often and be on time to attract ridership.

With such as system, if I were in Grant Park and I wanted to go to the Virginia Highlands, I could walk over to Boulevard, take a Boulevard/Monroe line northbound then transfer to the North Highland line. Maybe I'd get off at North Highland and Ponce.

I might do some shopping/eating in the Highlands. Then if I wanted to go to Piedmont Park, I would take the Ponce de Leon line to Piedmont Ave. , then transfer to the Piedmont line (or if I wanted the east side of the park, the Boulevard/Monroe line again).

To get home after a day of shopping/hanging out in Piedmont Park, I could take the Boulevard/Monroe line back home.

There would be some scenarios where you might have to transfer twice, which might be pushing it for some. But in any public transit system transferring is a part of everyday life. Where I live in Brooklyn, there is only one train line that's near my apartment. I have to transfer at least once wherever I go. It's not a problem if the trains run on time. That's the key - transit needs to be prompt and run frequently.

[ironchapman]

Since some of you guys rarely ever seem to leave this forum often and go to the Georgia one, I figured I'd show you this topic there:

Georgia forum reaches 5000 posts!

This, of course, includes Atlanta.

[mcheiss]

Congrats Atlanta and Georgia!!!!!!

[teshadoh]

Does it really? I've never been able to find a master MARTA bus route map. Trying to find which route you should take on MARTAs web site is next to impossible. You have to click on all the different routes (or routes that server a train station) and hope you find the right one.

And that's exactly the problem. The system is not intuitive. If you were to dedicate lines to major thoroughfares that go through or abut most neighborhoods and (for the most part) these routes ran linearly (crisscrossing one another at various intersections), figuring out the system would be easily. Of course these lines would need to run often and be on time to attract ridership.

With such as system, if I were in Grant Park and I wanted to go to the Virginia Highlands, I could walk over to Boulevard, take a Boulevard/Monroe line northbound then transfer to the North Highland line. Maybe I'd get off at North Highland and Ponce.

I might do some shopping/eating in the Highlands. Then if I wanted to go to Piedmont Park, I would take the Ponce de Leon line to Piedmont Ave. , then transfer to the Piedmont line (or if I wanted the east side of the park, the Boulevard/Monroe line again).

To get home after a day of shopping/hanging out in Piedmont Park, I could take the Boulevard/Monroe line back home.

There would be some scenarios where you might have to transfer twice, which might be pushing it for some. But in any public transit system transferring is a part of everyday life. Where I live in Brooklyn, there is only one train line that's near my apartment. I have to transfer at least once wherever I go. It's not a problem if the trains run on time. That's the key - transit needs to be prompt and run frequently.

Exactly - the bus routing appears to be arbitrary, very little sense. Now - the intent of the system is based on certain neighborhoods or focal points & selecting a route to send them to the MARTA station. That is the key point - MARTA is based on bussing people to transit stations, not where they want to go. Ideally what Terminus suggested would be exist, which does exist in most large cities - bus routes based on some street grid. Of course Atlanta doesn't have the best street grid, but there is one for primary streets, which should be used.

[Designerbee]

I have no problem walking. I moved here from Savannah where I walked several blocks a day. I rarely used my car.

But I don't feel like there is enough to walk to in one area. There aren't little shops to see as you walk by or even enough pedestrians to feel safe. I just miss being able to walk down the street in Savannah and say "where do you want to eat tonight" and just walk by all the options.

Savannah is so much smaller but offers so much more.

I just don't want to drive everywhere and pay $12 to park and I am scared to walk because every time I do I get followed by someone asking for money.

Savannah has its crime problems. Very bad problems but I still felt safe walking around downtown because there are so many others walking too.

DC is a good example of a smaller scale subway (compared to NYC for example) that is efficient and used daily by commuters, tourists and everyone else.