Brooklyn Village Redevelopment in 2nd Ward

[cltbwimob]

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/52959/charlottes-plans-second-ward-include-enough-park-space/

Parks and rec wants the county commissioners to require that the new redevelopment to include a park at least the size of Marshall Park and they want to ensure that enough parking spaces for the park is included.  County commissioners also apparently are said to be less than thrilled with the current plans as well in part because of the shrinking park space.

This is ridiculous.  I don't know if they know this but the additional 3+ acres that they are asking to be preserved as park space represents an opportunity cost to the developers that will likely be tens of millions of dollars over time.  And if they keep shunning the developers plans they may all back out leaving us with the craptastic amalgam of land uses that is Second Ward.  They have two good proposals for the area; why are they now stonewalling them?

My prayer is that God will soon grant us government officials who, as my mother would say, will use their heads for something besides a hat rack.

 

[grodney]

29 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

why are they now stonewalling them?

I see what you did there.

[cltbwimob]

21 minutes ago, grodney said:

I see what you did there.

Not to take anything away from the point I was trying to make but I thought it was pretty clever.

[CLTProductions]

I actually think you're off on this one. I know it's not apples to apples but could you imagine if Central Park was comprimised because of a developer opportunity cost? There's a reason we rank SO low in every green space score there is. Romare is great and first ward park is a glorified patch of grass. We need this park and open and green space.

for once I actually think government is doing the the right thing here. We need park space we can be proud of. And the small Romare Bearden just isn't going to cut it. Look at a VAST majority of cities. Lots of prime real estate is taken up by parks. To say forcing it on developers is wrong doing is a little short sighted, especially considering where Charlotte stands. Minimal parks, 0 natural water, plenty of developable land, etc 

[cltbwimob]

^^^I don't really think adding an additional 3 acres of park space will really change too much in terms of our rankings for green space, but otherwise point taken.  I do agree we need more park space, I just don't want to lose some otherwise good proposals because they were being sticklers for an additional couple of acres of park space.   What the're asking for is marginal in terms of the amount of additional green space it will add, but it adds significant opportunity cost to the developer which may push them to walk away. I usually do not adhere to this philosophy, but in the case of second ward, I prefer the 90% solution that can be accomplished in the near term over the 100% solution that may be several development cycles away.

Edited June 2, 2016 by cltbwimob

[alb1no panther]

I would tend to agree, but one developer just re-upped their offer, buying extra land.  That's a good sign.  Besides, devoting space to parks earns you points, and points wins bids.

[Deleted.]

Adding 3 acres of park will not change our ranking, it will keep it status-quo. Marshall park is what 5.something acres; removing an over 5 acre park and replacing it with a 1.6-2 acre park will obviously push our ranking down. 

[Prodev]

I don't think the focus is centered around the actual rankings, but rather the actual green space. Marshall Park is probably grossly underutilized today, but if you're considering proposals for a couple million square feet of future development, that space will wind up being pretty important, just as it has at Bearden. I think the request to add green space is in part because none of the offers were that great. If you're going to "settle", you may as well get something in return. 

[Guest]

Just now, Prodev said:

I don't think the focus is centered around the actual rankings, but rather the actual green space. Marshall Park is probably grossly underutilized today, but if you're considering proposals for a couple million square feet of future development, that space will wind up being pretty important, just as it has at Bearden. I think the request to add green space is in part because none of the offers were that great. If you're going to "settle", you may as well get something in return. 

Maybe the answer is finding a middle ground. If not 1.6 acre and not 6.5 acres, why not like 3.25-3.5 acres?

[dubone]

They should not be counting the lake part in the acreage of Marshall Park.    But really, they should not be comparing any acreage beyond what was already included in the 2nd Ward Plan.  The whole point was reduce the open space, but surround a new park with development that would help the open space thrive.  2nd Ward has plenty of public open space and recreation space, considering all of the public plazas, the Aquatic Center, and the yards of historic courthouse and city hall.   What it doesn't have is a proper urban mixture of uses that would have a population or reason to be there outside of civic events. 

 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Is it possible to tell what the fate of this building is in any of the three proposals?

[southslider]

^Outside the proposal area

 

[alb1no panther]

38 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Is it possible to tell what the fate of this building is in any of the three proposals?

Yep that's outside of the development. That building isn't going anywhere, though. No worries!

[Nick2]

That's good to hear. Buildings like that is what I really wish Charlotte had more of. Imagine if blocks of similar stuff existed instead of surface parking.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Yep. Although literally that building is surrounded by a sea of surface parking lots. And the building itself is vacant. Gooooo Charlotte!

 

 

[alb1no panther]

11 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Yep. Although literally that building is surrounded by a sea of surface parking lots. And the building itself is vacant. Gooooo Charlotte!

 

 

Do you advocate getting tearing it down?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Yep. Although literally that building is surrounded by a sea of surface parking lots. And the building itself is vacant. Gooooo Charlotte!

 

 

That whole site will be wrapped with a building by the next upswing. RTG Holdings is exploring a new project, now that 1 Brevard was a total failure.

[HopHead]

Keep in mind that the parking lot directly to the left of the Transit Center just went on the market for redevelopment too. Will be interesting to see if someone snags that up sooner rather than later. I would assume whomever develops that will directly integrate the project to the convention center light rail stop. Still say that's a prime spot for the convention size hotel..

[alb1no panther]

16 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

That whole site will be wrapped with a building by the next upswing. RTG Holdings is exploring a new project, now that 1 Brevard was a total failure.

Not going to lie, I wasn't a fan of 1 Brevard, and I'm hopeful that it's failure was a blessing in disguise.

Gonna be very fun here on UP as this gets developed.  When I joined the site, most the threads were started years back, and everyone was in on it from the jump.  I'll enjoy tracking these two projects [and BKV! . . new name I just made up for Brooklyn Village haha] from the beginning.

[Matthew.Brendan]

5 hours ago, alb1no panther said:

Do you advocate getting tearing it down?

Quite the opposite!  I wish I had the capital to buy it .... and the building next to it (which appears to be a later addition) .... and the church next to that. What a beauty!

I didn't take a picture of the plaque but it mentioned this used be Main Street of Brooklyn Village. 

 

 

[go_vertical]

Yeah, I'll be pissed if any of those are razed.

[videtur quam contuor]

I have read that the man who designed the brick building on the corner in the photo above may well have been the same who built this mausoleum in the A-A section of Elmwood:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/retro-charlotte/article75152547.html

In the A-A community of the time an experienced building mason could double as an architect.

[Spartan]

On 6/5/2016 at 1:42 PM, dubone said:

They should not be counting the lake part in the acreage of Marshall Park.    But really, they should not be comparing any acreage beyond what was already included in the 2nd Ward Plan.  The whole point was reduce the open space, but surround a new park with development that would help the open space thrive.  2nd Ward has plenty of public open space and recreation space, considering all of the public plazas, the Aquatic Center, and the yards of historic courthouse and city hall.   What it doesn't have is a proper urban mixture of uses that would have a population or reason to be there outside of civic events. 

 

I disagree that they shouldn't count the lake, but I 100% agree that the park space should be at least as big as Marshall Park. It doesn't have to be a 'signature' space, but there is no reason that we shouldn't demand/require as much open space within uptown as possible. There isn't anywhere else that a park can be built in 2nd Ward that would function well for the entire neighborhood. Nobody uses the 'open space' around old city hall and the courthouse except the occasional protest, and it's not really an enjoyable place to hang out (assuming security wouldn't run you off). Further, it's entirely possible that those buildings could be redeveloped someday if the City or County ever needs more office space.

Honestly, I'd rather leave Marshall Park as it is and just line it with buildings. All that park needs is a little reconfiguring of space and some more eyes on the park so it won't feel so desolate.

[cltbwimob]

16 hours ago, go_vertical said:

Yeah, I'll be pissed if any of those are razed.

I don't think they will be.  There was an article about them a few months ago, and although I can't remember all the details, it seemed like the owner was not even thinking about tearing them down, but rather finding adaptive reuses.  Plus the MI CO Building is on the National Register of Historic Places.  The church may be as well, but I am not sure.

 

[urbanlover568]

meeting in progress for anyone that wants to watch

 

http://charmeck.org/mecklenburg/county/CountyManagersOffice/BOCC/Meetings/Pages/Watch-Meetings.aspx