Brooklyn Village Redevelopment in 2nd Ward

[SgtCampsalot]

15 hours ago, HighRiseHillbilly said:

I like Marshall Park. I like the trees, the big, bulky concrete, the little rises & enclaves it creates, and the winding layout. I even like the water, although it does need a good cleaning. 

As others have said, it's not really near anything, so it doesn't get used much. I have used it plenty of times recently, though. I have been to plan, to protest, to photograph, to film, and just to enjoy its quiet, unique atmosphere.

Where else can you point to in the city that so much has happened in the name of social change? Also, if you google "Marshall Park Wedding Photos". There is some beautiful evidence that other people know it's there and appreciate it. It's a beautiful, special place and I think it needs to stay.

And that pavilion... come on! I've attended many rallies and vigils there, but it could host concerts, performances, everything. It's such a great seating area with the tiers.

Literally, if Marshall Park was transplanted anywhere else Uptown people would think more of it. Peeps just think it stinks because there's nothing around it... missing the point.

But if it's a goner, meh...

Edited September 9, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[norm21499]

Marshall park does not need to be reduced in square footage because it isn't used, It isn't used because there is nothing around it. If people are thinking that the park isn't used because of the park design, they are wrong. If the way the park is designed is truly an issue though, do not reduce the size of the park. Instead, redesign the park and make it more functional. I have a feeling though that money talks and selling park property for development is going to win out.

[Synopsis101]

Bigger isn't always better.

Better use of the land...

[HighRiseHillbilly]

4 hours ago, Synopsis101 said:

Bigger isn't always better.

Better use of the land...

It is possible to build buildings and leave the park alone. Stranger things have happened. 

[dubone]

It's the same theory that was applied to First Ward Park and to Bearden park in Third Ward.  The old First Ward Park was basically just a field for homeless but eventually it was replaced and became a very high-quality park in a better location closer into town that is now much more likable and well used.  Almost no one even remembers the previous First Ward Park which was at 7th and McDowell.  

 

Marshall does have some mature trees, but is otherwise a poorly design park that is only used as a landmark because it is physically near city government, which makes is a gathering place for marches and protests and that it lacks development around it so it still has a good view of the skyline.   The area is mostly unusable pond and separated space that is then mostly dominated by the parking lot or street. 

 

I get that it seems worth saving to some, but I am firmly in the camp that a reorientation of the park is exactly what is needed for 2nd Ward to work and have connected streets and a park that fits will within the next urban fabric. 

The old design clearly did not attract much more than geese.

[Guest]

It is possible to build buildings and leave the park alone. Stranger things have happened. 

It's not though. There is too much of Marshall that is fronting space that will be permanently inactive. Opposite McDowell is all the 70s office buildings and the Sheraton/Le Meridien. Opposite 3rd is all government buildings. That means you can only activate at most two sides of the park. Not to mention you are just left with an awkward triangle of space to develop. Marshall park sucks. It must go.


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[KJHburg]

Throwback Tuesday Marshall Park from 1982 notice the concrete bridge that went over the lake this was taken down in the 1990s I think or maybe later. From the KJ Vaulted of Forgotten Photos.   Notice that new tower the Charlotte Plaza only one high rise was missing which would have been 400 South Tryon aka Wachovia Center which would have been to left of 2 Wells Fargo aka 2 Wachovia, 2 First Union or the original name Jefferson First Union Plaza. 

[HighRiseHillbilly]

18 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

It's not though. There is too much of Marshall that is fronting space that will be permanently inactive. Opposite McDowell is all the 70s office buildings and the Sheraton/Le Meridien. Opposite 3rd is all government buildings. That means you can only activate at most two sides of the park. Not to mention you are just left with an awkward triangle of space to develop. Marshall park sucks. It must go.


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I said what I said and I meant it.

[Miesian Corners]

I think MP should stay. There's a ton of land around Cameron Brown and the Le Meridien that can be developed. Hell, if anything, tear the Aquatic Center down and build one bigger somewhere else.  We have the least parklands acreage of any large city in America. This will just make it worse. Tear down the lake, yes, cut down the trees and reduce the park by 4 acres, no.

As for the above rendering, as we all know, Charlotte is still a place where architecture doesn't matter. Pretty pictures are great. They'd be even better if projects actually looked like "conceptual renderings".

[dubone]

They reinvested a ton of money in the Aquatic Center.  The park has maybe had a lawnmower or two come through, otherwise, not not really a dime has been spent on it in decades.  

 

[Miesian Corners]

8 hours ago, dubone said:

They reinvested a ton of money in the Aquatic Center.  The park has maybe had a lawnmower or two come through, otherwise, not not really a dime has been spent on it in decades.  

 

You're missing the point. Marshal Park has the only mature trees uptown. The aquatic center has a large surface lot in front. There is absolutely no reason we can't have the park acreage and new development. 

Losing valuable open space for more stick-built schlock is not the answer to anyone's prayers. 

[Synopsis101]

I don't think Brooklyn Village will be stick-built. There was an emphasis on quality.

There wasn't an uproar here before the proposals. The debate is a little late.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Synopsis101

[tozmervo]

9 minutes ago, Synopsis101 said:

I don't think Brooklyn Village will be stick-built. There was an emphasis on quality.

There wasn't an uproar here before the proposals. The debate is a little late.

Marshall Park wasn't being turned into the back yard of an apartment building before the proposals

[AirNostrumMAD]

17 minutes ago, Synopsis101 said:

I don't think Brooklyn Village will be stick-built. There was an emphasis on quality.

There wasn't an uproar here before the proposals. The debate is a little late.

Conceptual plans always are.

 

I imagine it perfectly: Jayvee teases us for months how transformative it will be, such high quality, etc. They start building it, the bottom floor will go from supposed to be having nice local tenants lined up to a gym for the residents and maybe a small restaurant closed on Sunday's. The residential building will be no greater Presley Stonewall or any other midrise, the civic building gym or whatever will be no more active than the uncc building uptown (perpetually empty) then Jayvee will then decide and complain about the horrible qualities that they instead built and we will all decide to dislike it and later on will lament the loss of the big water feature uptown.  (Which I'm just messing, btw)

 

If the new park had a large water feature or a pond, I could somewhat stomach the loss of Marshall. Or if it were unique. Something special. Which again, I think unfitting Marshal would be great. But, I've already said that so. 

 

[Synopsis101]

8 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Marshall Park wasn't being turned into the back yard of an apartment building before the proposals

I thought the point was to  restore Brooklyn. Not sure how you can do that and save Marshall Park especially with all the county proposal requirements. The land is freaking tiny.

The park is an eyesore. The less geese in uptown the better.

[elrodvt]

18 minutes ago, Synopsis101 said:

I thought the point was to  restore Brooklyn. Not sure how you can do that and save Marshall Park especially with all the county proposal requirements. The land is freaking tiny.

The park is an eyesore. The less geese in uptown the better.

I hear geese don't like astroturf so we're on the path you like. ;-)

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Conceptual plans always are.

 

I imagine it perfectly: Jayvee teases us for months how transformative it will be, such high quality, etc. They start building it, the bottom floor will go from supposed to be having nice local tenants lined up to a gym for the residents and maybe a small restaurant closed on Sunday's. The residential building will be no greater Presley Stonewall or any other midrise, the civic building gym or whatever will be no more active than the uncc building uptown (perpetually empty) then Jayvee will then decide and complain about the horrible qualities that they instead built and we will all decide to dislike it and later on will lament the loss of the big water feature uptown.  (Which I'm just messing, btw)

 

If the new park had a large water feature or a pond, I could somewhat stomach the loss of Marshall. Or if it were unique. Something special. Which again, I think unfitting Marshal would be great. But, I've already said that so. 

 

I personally worked on Brooklyn Village, and I know it'll be be special once its done. It'll just take 7-10 years to complete :-(.

[mfowler12]

I'm currently spending the weekend in Cincinnati. The 2nd ward developers should take a visit here to look at the OTR area of downtown. Incredible revitalization area centered on a small urban park with streetcar access nearby. Charlotte doesn't have the benefit of the prewar building stock but I don't get why an attempt to use classic looks and styles is not part of any developers plans. 

Anyone else on this board familiar. 

[tarhoosier]

Over The Rhine

[nowensone]

On 9/22/2017 at 3:07 PM, mfowler12 said:

I'm currently spending the weekend in Cincinnati. The 2nd ward developers should take a visit here to look at the OTR area of downtown. Incredible revitalization area centered on a small urban park with streetcar access nearby. Charlotte doesn't have the benefit of the prewar building stock but I don't get why an attempt to use classic looks and styles is not part of any developers plans. 

Anyone else on this board familiar. 

But didn't crossing giant river-like boulevard of Liberty Central Pkwy [correction] strike you as a massive negative?  Very fond of some aspects of Cincinnati, but I don't think it compares like that, the areas you refer to are nice, though are slightly plastic and hollow, I'd choose the north areas to highlight.

Edited September 25, 2017 by nowensone
wrong street

[Scribe]

Looks like that Cameron Brown Building is now called 301 Midtown and there is a possibility of facade upgrades: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/09/27/20-7m-financing-for-uptown-office-building.html

Quote

Capital improvements like site landscaping, improved entrance lobbies, new amenities, building security, lighting and potentially facade embellishments will be underway at the building.

 

[Dale]

19 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Looks like that Cameron Brown Building is now called 301 Midtown and there is a possibility of facade upgrades: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/09/27/20-7m-financing-for-uptown-office-building.html

 

Long overdue!

[NCMike1990]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

Looks like that Cameron Brown Building is now called 301 Midtown and there is a possibility of facade upgrades: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/09/27/20-7m-financing-for-uptown-office-building.html

 

About time! That building and Walton Plaza are by far the two ugliest buildings in Uptown.

[Niner National]

1 hour ago, NCMike1990 said:

About time! That building and Walton Plaza are by far the two ugliest buildings in Uptown.

This one is the worst IMO

The two you reference are horrible, but at least they have windows.

[elrodvt]

4 minutes ago, Niner National said:

This one is the worst IMO

The two you reference are horrible, but at least they have windows.

I agree, what a terrible building. I've never looked - I can't imagine who would rent office space in there?