Brooklyn Village Redevelopment in 2nd Ward

[JRCLT]

Major news tonight on Twitter via CBJ twitter
"Don Peebles, head of The Peebles Corporation, lead developer on Brooklyn Village project, is part of 
@BPCCharlotte  economic development panel tonight. He says he expects groundbreaking here in the next 16 to 18 months. He and his wife are considering buying a home here."

I guess it’s a timeframe but that’s more than a year to a year and a half. Leaves a lot of room for…other things to occur. What is phase 1?

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, JeanClt said:

I guess it’s a timeframe but that’s more than a year to a year and a half. Leaves a lot of room for…other things to occur. What is phase 1?

You might want to chase Mr Peebles down before he jets off I hope it is grander and taller than what was originally proposed. 

[RANYC]

Brooklyn Redevelopment Saga Timeline

$683 million Brooklyn Village project

September 2019 Bizjournal/Observer Articles:

• 2016
  • Meck County begins negotiations with BK Partners, which is a joint venture comprised of Peebles and locally-owned Conformity Corp
• June 2018
  • County votes to approve a Final Master Development Agreement with BK Partners for redevelopment of a 17-acre site in Brooklyn
  • Agreement gives BK Partners 3 years to close on the property involved
  • The 17-acre redevelopment area includes a 5-acre Marshall Park site, because the City of Charlotte ceded this park site to the County for the development of affordable housing pursuant to a 2007 agreement (in exchange, the City of Charlotte got the space now used for Truist Field).  
  • Under the Development agreement that the County negotiated with BK Partners, the Marshall Park site goes from 5+ acres to 1.6 acres
• 2019
  • Widespread criticisms start to surface over the insufficient number of affordable housing units and over BK's plans to eliminate a portion of Marshall park
  • The 2007 agreement referenced above was set to expire at the end of 2019 which would have allowed the Marshall Park site to revert back to the City of Charlotte; however, since no development had taken place, the city was asked to extend its land-swap agreement with the County, giving the County until 2029 to sell the Marshall Park site for redevelopment
• September 2019
  • City Council defers action on extending the land-swap agreement with the County, pissing off the County and Peebles
• Early October 2019
  • Opposition to BK Partners plans intensifies
  • Peebles blasts opposition as "sabotage"
• Mid October 2019
  • City of Charlotte finally approves land swap agreement extension with the County
• Post-2019 Kerfuffle 
  • BK Partners says it needs to complete due diligence, rezoning, land document approvals, and plan review
  • Even though property is zoned Urban Mixed-Use Development (UMUD), a spokesman for BK Partners didn't rule out a rezoning because of the potential need for "optional provisions or amendments
• 2022 (according to Brooklyn Village website)
  • Phase 1 - expected to commence in 2022 with the purchase of 5.7 acres at corner of Stonewall and McDowell 
    • This appears later than the original 2018 Development Agreement contemplated
• 2H 2023 (according to Peebles comments tonight)
  • Construction on parks, civic amenities, "iconic office building and hotel on site of Bob Walton Plaza"

Edited December 16, 2021 by RANYC

[tozmervo]

Is Bob Walton plaza vacant now?

[SydneyCarton]

As we know from NY's experience, Peebles is looking to make a name for himself with iconic projects.  I look forward to this.

[TheRealClayton]

27 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

As we know from NY's experience, Peebles is looking to make a name for himself with iconic projects.  I look forward to this.

Don Peebles is just another Donald Trump, he just hasn't figured out how to license his name to other people's buildings yet, or get the big break on a reality show. He will not build his building in NYC, and I would never expect something iconic in Charlotte.

Edited December 16, 2021 by TheRealClayton

[SydneyCarton]

3 hours ago, TheRealClayton said:

Don Peebles is just another Donald Trump, he just hasn't figured out how to license his name to other people's buildings yet, or get the big break on a reality show. He will not build his building in NYC, and I would never expect something iconic in Charlotte.

He's definitely building the NY tower.  Witkoff, who is one of the most respected NY developers, partnered with him, and the tower has received publicity globally.  There's massive demand for that site, and due to politics, he will undoubtedly be selected.  Indeed, that's a foregone conclusion.  1,000'+ towers (commercial, residential, and hotel) are springing up all over NY due to unprecedented demand..

You know a lot more about the Charlotte market than I do, so perhaps, he won't build BV, but that would be a shame.  If he doesn't, I hope that Lincoln Harris or some other Charlotte developer does soon.  Do you think that's likely?

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[TheMightyBK]

Look at that monster compared to the iconic Chrysler Building! Good looking new tower, but the difference in scale is crazy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheRealClayton]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

He's definitely building the NY tower.  Witkoff, who is one of the most respected NY developers, partnered with him, and the tower has received publicity globally.  There's massive demand for that site, and due to politics, he will undoubtedly be selected.  Indeed, that's a foregone conclusion.  1,000'+ towers (commercial, residential, and hotel) are springing up all over NY due to unprecedented demand..

You know a lot more about the Charlotte market than I do, so perhaps, he won't build BV, but that would be a shame.  If he doesn't, I hope that Lincoln Harris or some other Charlotte developer does soon.  Do you think that's likely?

 

 

 

Respectively this perspective on NYC real estate is not rooted in reality. The fact is because of Covid, NYC is likely to hit a 40% vacancy rate in much of Manhattan, and the tourism/hospitality industry has been ABSOLUTELY GUTTED. I don't know if your knowledge of NYC real estate has skipped the last two years, but its very out of date. And I'm not speaking to this subject matter and this developer as some layman, its well known in the industry that this developer does not deliver.

Edited December 16, 2021 by TheRealClayton

[SydneyCarton]

29 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

Respectively this perspective on NYC real estate is not rooted in reality. The fact is because of Covid, NYC is likely to hit a 40% vacancy rate in much of Manhattan, and the tourism/hospitality industry has been ABSOLUTELY GUTTED. I don't know if your knowledge of NYC real estate has skipped the last two years, but its very out of date. And I'm not speaking to this subject matter and this developer as some layman, its well known in the industry that this developer does not deliver.

You are quite wrong.  My firm has a NYC real estate department which is booming.  They're giving people $100k sign on bonuses.

This 1,600' tower was approved yesterday, and it's basically next to the 1,400' Vanderbilt Tower that filled with record speed.

NY is a place with unparalleled wealth and international demand.  Therefore, they can't build them fast enough.  Boston Properties is building another 1,000' office tower on spec., and JP Morgan tore down a 700' tower to build a 1,425' one in its place.  Things like that only happen in NY  where there is unlimited money.  Most cities can't even build condo towers.  NYC is the only place in the US where condos sell at $10k/sf.

In fact, in a recent article in the Financial Times regarding the booming NY office construction market,  the chairman of SL Green stated of 1 Vanderbilt:

"Yet One Vanderbilt is now more than 90 per cent leased. Its newest tenant is UiPath, a robotics software company that last month signed a 15-year lease to take the entire 60th floor. “I wish I had 20 more floors because if I did we could lease them,” Marc Holliday, chief executive of SL Green, One Vanderbilt’s developer and New York’s largest office landlord, crowed."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/12/manhattans-luxury-real-estate-market-what-50-million-can-buy.html

Manhattan’s luxury real estate market is setting records. Here’s what $50 million can buy

PUBLISHED FRI, NOV 12 20219:13 AM EST

KEY POINTS

• Pent-up demand, a roaring stock market and extremely low interest rates are melding together to create a record-breaking luxury real estate market in Manhattan.
• Eight trophy properties, priced north of $50 million have been sold this year. That’s on par with 2019.
• Jonathan Miller, president and CEO of real estate appraisal firm Miller Samuel, expects there could be a wave of deals ahead, as well-heeled foreigners return and create even more demand for luxury real estate in New York City.

Similar article from the WSJ:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-housing-demand-surges-after-pandemic-slowdown-11634644800

New York Housing Demand Surges After Pandemic Slowdown

More than 4,500 Manhattan condo and co-op sales closed in third quarter, Douglas Elliman says, the most in the period in over 30 years

New York Housing Demand Surges After Pandemic Slowdown

More than 4,500 Manhattan condo and co-op sales closed in third quarter, Douglas Elliman says, the most in the period in over 30 years

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[SydneyCarton]

Anyway, NYC is unlike any American city or the world for that matter.  That's obvious to anyone who's not in denial.

I'm more interested in when BV will be built.

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[JRCLT]

He's definitely building the NY tower.  Witkoff, who is one of the most respected NY developers, partnered with him, and the tower has received publicity globally.  There's massive demand for that site, and due to politics, he will undoubtedly be selected.  Indeed, that's a foregone conclusion.  1,000'+ towers (commercial, residential, and hotel) are springing up all over NY due to unprecedented demand..
You know a lot more about the Charlotte market than I do, so perhaps, he won't build BV, but that would be a shame.  If he doesn't, I hope that Lincoln Harris or some other Charlotte developer does soon.  Do you think that's likely?
 
 
 

Nothing is set in stone…you can be most assured when dirt is moved and frames are up…but even in certain circumstances even that can be halted as these past years have shown and even 2008 and 2001 and so on…plans change, dissolve, are pushed, etc. due to market changes and unfortunate circumstances. You at the very least can say that it’s happening with certainty once you see physical movement and construction. It’s good to be optimistic I guess

[TheRealClayton]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You are quite wrong.  My firm has a NYC real estate department which is booming.  They're giving people $100k sign on bonuses.

This 1,600' tower was approved yesterday, and it's basically next to the 1,400' Vanderbilt Tower that filled with record speed.

NY is a place with unparalleled wealth and international demand.  Therefore, they can't build them fast enough.  Boston Properties is building another 1,000' office tower on spec., and JP Morgan tore down a 700' tower to build a 1,425' one in its place.  Things like that only happen in NY  where there is unlimited money.  Most cities can't even build condo towers.  NYC is the only place in the US where condos sell at $10k/sf.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/12/manhattans-luxury-real-estate-market-what-50-million-can-buy.html

Manhattan’s luxury real estate market is setting records. Here’s what $50 million can buy

PUBLISHED FRI, NOV 12 20219:13 AM EST

KEY POINTS

• Pent-up demand, a roaring stock market and extremely low interest rates are melding together to create a record-breaking luxury real estate market in Manhattan.
• Eight trophy properties, priced north of $50 million have been sold this year. That’s on par with 2019.
• Jonathan Miller, president and CEO of real estate appraisal firm Miller Samuel, expects there could be a wave of deals ahead, as well-heeled foreigners return and create even more demand for luxury real estate in New York City.

Similar article from the WSJ:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-housing-demand-surges-after-pandemic-slowdown-11634644800

New York Housing Demand Surges After Pandemic Slowdown

More than 4,500 Manhattan condo and co-op sales closed in third quarter, Douglas Elliman says, the most in the period in over 30 years

New York Housing Demand Surges After Pandemic Slowdown

More than 4,500 Manhattan condo and co-op sales closed in third quarter, Douglas Elliman says, the most in the period in over 30 years

 

Yes, I'm fully aware people are washing the world's money in New York, doesn't mean the city is booming having lived there for 12 years.

Edited December 16, 2021 by TheRealClayton

[SydneyCarton]

2 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

Yes, I'm fully aware people are washing the world's money in New York, doesn't mean the city is booming.

Wall Street is booming, and NYC is booming like no other place in the world at the moment.  It is a city with absolutely unprecedented wealth.  Look at the articles that  I posted.

Anyway, back to Charlotte....

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[TheRealClayton]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Wall Street is booming, and NYC is booming like no other place in the world at the moment.  It is a city with absolutely unprecedented wealth.

the financial sector represents less than 5% of the city's employment. 

[SydneyCarton]

9 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

the financial sector represents less than 5% of the city's employment. 

Rick, you know a lot about Charlotte, but you clearly have some issues with NY.  I'm not going to argue with you.  The facts speak for themselves.

Anyway, I appreciate the great information that you provide about the QC.

Residential Real Estate 2021: Leading Markets for the Wealthy (wealthx.com)

• New York remains the global preeminent city of the wealthy – the Big Apple has a significant lead in the list of the world’s top 20 cities, with Los Angeles and London ranking second and third, respectively.
• London, Hong Kong, and Paris rank the highest among non-US cities – London ranks third, just behind Los Angeles, followed by Hong Kong and Paris in fourth and fifth respectively.
• There are key differences between UHNW primary residents and secondary homeowners in Hong Kong, London and New York – UHNW secondary homeowners are, on average, slightly younger and have a higher female representation than their primary resident counterparts.

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[TheRealClayton]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Rick, you know a lot about Charlotte, but you clearly have some issues with NY.  I'm not going to argue with you.  The facts speak for themselves.

Anyway, I appreciate the great information that you provide about the QC.

Residential Real Estate 2021: Leading Markets for the Wealthy (wealthx.com)

• New York remains the global preeminent city of the wealthy – the Big Apple has a significant lead in the list of the world’s top 20 cities, with Los Angeles and London ranking second and third, respectively.
• London, Hong Kong, and Paris rank the highest among non-US cities – London ranks third, just behind Los Angeles, followed by Hong Kong and Paris in fourth and fifth respectively.
• There are key differences between UHNW primary residents and secondary homeowners in Hong Kong, London and New York – UHNW secondary homeowners are, on average, slightly younger and have a higher female representation than their primary resident counterparts.

 

I have no issue with NYC, I lived there 1/3 of my life and I love it with all my heart. But the fact is, It has had the slowest financial and employment recovery rate in the nation from covid (60% recovered vs 90% nationwide), double the nation's unemployment rate, the largest outflow of people, and will soon be grappling with default after default of commercial properties in Manhattan, because nobody is working in them. If you think the actions of the  world's super wealthy washing their money defines a city, then you have an interesting picture on how cities work.

I've always just vehemently disagreed with you on the positivity of supertalls in Manhattan. They are a zoning loophole and are extremely toxic for our economy. Pretending things are 'coming up roses' in NYC is ignoring the massive issues that will actually dictate the health of the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/14/nyregion/nyc-economy-jobless.html

Edited December 16, 2021 by TheRealClayton

[RANYC]

16 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

I have no issue with NYC, I lived there 1/3 of my life and I love it with all my heart. But the fact is, It has had the slowest financial and employment recovery rate in the nation from covid (60% recovered vs 90% nationwide), double the nation's unemployment rate, the largest outflow of people, and will soon be grappling with default after default of commercial properties in Manhattan, because nobody is working in them. If you think the actions of the  world's super wealthy washing their money defines a city, then you have an interesting picture on how cities work.

I've always just vehemently disagreed with you on the positivity of supertalls in Manhattan. They are a zoning loophole and are extremely toxic for our economy. Pretending things are 'coming up roses' in NYC is ignoring the massive issues that will actually dictate the health of the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/14/nyregion/nyc-economy-jobless.html

I, too, lived in NYC for a 1/3 of my life, and I approve TheRealClayton's message .  Myself, and anyone I've known who's lived in NYC for an extended period of time is exceedingly ambivalent about it.  I love NYC, but will fight tooth and nail to keep Charlotte from using it as any sort of model.  The city has had issues for ages, and has some substantial ones now.  Don't confuse an astronomical concentration of wealth in relatively few hands and hyped-up real estate used to offshore assets as a sign of a wealthy city in which its denizens share in its thriving.

My NYC locations: 2 apartments in Chelsea, 1 in West Village, 2 in Flatiron District, 1 on Upper Eastside

Edited December 16, 2021 by RANYC

[Norm2]

20 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Rick, you know a lot about Charlotte, but you clearly have some issues with NY.  I'm not going to argue with you.  The facts speak for themselves.

Anyway, I appreciate the great information that you provide about the QC.

Residential Real Estate 2021: Leading Markets for the Wealthy (wealthx.com)

• New York remains the global preeminent city of the wealthy – the Big Apple has a significant lead in the list of the world’s top 20 cities, with Los Angeles and London ranking second and third, respectively.
• London, Hong Kong, and Paris rank the highest among non-US cities – London ranks third, just behind Los Angeles, followed by Hong Kong and Paris in fourth and fifth respectively.
• There are key differences between UHNW primary residents and secondary homeowners in Hong Kong, London and New York – UHNW secondary homeowners are, on average, slightly younger and have a higher female representation than their primary resident counterparts.

 

The real estate boom is among the ridiculously wealthy . Then again, half of Billionaires row units are not sold, and a good portion of the units that have sold, the owners do not live in them.  

[Guest]

I thought this argument was over the likelihood that the tower will be built, I don’t see an argument against that yet. Even if the NYC market is the way Clayton claims (I personally agree), these types of buildings are being built regardless of inequities and that I think was Sydney’s point

[SydneyCarton]

I'd rather speak about Charlotte than NY, but  if you guys want to push the topic, it's not just Wall Street that's booming in NY.  Tech is out of control.  Google owns millions of square feet in NY.  This multibillion dollar purchase is just the latest of their acquisitions.

In addition to Wall Street, NY has far more corporate HQs than any other city, it has the U.N., it is the media and publishing capital, etc.   It has more millionaires and billionares Once again, if you want to ignore facts, that's fine, albeit delusional.

Google plans to buy New York office building for $2.1 billion (cnbc.com)

Wells Fargo's NY office, where all of the top executives are based, also is seeking new space in addition to what it just leased at the HY.

KKR, Wells Fargo Look to Expand at Manhattan’s Hudson Yards - WSJ

Facebook, like Amazon, is adding to the millions of square feet that it already leases in NY.

 

Facebook Bets Big on Future of N.Y.C., and Offices, With New Lease - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Cash-Rich Tech Companies Are Remaking Post-Pandemic Manhattan (forbes.com)

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-apartment-slated-to-sell-for-66-5-million-11635950369

"...Manhattan luxury sales more than tripled during the third quarter of the year, compared to 2020, according to Miller Samuel. "

 

As noted, there is an unparalleled level of wealth in NY.  Nothing in America remotely compares to it.

 

 

Manhattan Trophy Condo Sales Tripled in November - Mansion Global

 

The World's Richest People Are Flocking to These 17 Cities (businessinsider.com)

https://therealdeal.com/2021/11/08/led-by-67m-deal-at-naftalis-bellemont-buyers-flock-to-pricey-ues-condos/

Led by $67M deal at Naftali’s Bellemont, buyers flock to pricey UES condos

Multiple deals at Naftali Group projects top most expensive contracts as Manhattan luxury market stays hot

Nothing in America remotely compares to NY.  Let's not be delusional.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[TheRealClayton]

22 minutes ago, MothBeast said:

I thought this argument was over the likelihood that the tower will be built, I don’t see an argument against that yet. Even if the NYC market is the way Clayton claims (I personally agree), these types of buildings are being built regardless of inequities and that I think was Sydney’s point

If it was anyone other than Peebles. 

22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'd rather speak about Charlotte than NY, but  if you guys want to push the topic, it's not just Wall Street that's booming in NY.  Tech is out of control.  Google owns millions of square feet in NY.  This multibillion dollar purchase is just the latest of their acquisitions.

In addition to Wall Street, NY has far more corporate HQs than any other city, it has the U.N., it is the media and publishing capital, etc.   It has more millionaires and billionares Once again, if you want to ignore facts, that's fine, albeit delusional.

Google plans to buy New York office building for $2.1 billion (cnbc.com)

Wells Fargo's NY office, where all of the top executives are based, also is seeking new space in addition to what it just leased at the HY.

KKR, Wells Fargo Look to Expand at Manhattan’s Hudson Yards - WSJ

Facebook, like Amazon, is adding to the millions of square feet that it already leases in NY.

Facebook Bets Big on Future of N.Y.C., and Offices, With New Lease - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Cash-Rich Tech Companies Are Remaking Post-Pandemic Manhattan (forbes.com)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-apartment-slated-to-sell-for-66-5-million-11635950369

"...Manhattan luxury sales more than tripled during the third quarter of the year, compared to 2020, according to Miller Samuel. "

 

https://therealdeal.com/2021/11/08/led-by-67m-deal-at-naftalis-bellemont-buyers-flock-to-pricey-ues-condos/

Led by $67M deal at Naftali’s Bellemont, buyers flock to pricey UES condos

Multiple deals at Naftali Group projects top most expensive contracts as Manhattan luxury market stays hot

You said "Wall Street" so I addressed Wall Street. When push comes to shove NYC only has a median income 6K greater than Charlotte. 

[SydneyCarton]

3 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

If it was anyone other than Peebles. 

For the NY tower, Peebles is just a name.  Witkoff, one of the most respected developers, is building it.

In Charlotte, I don't care who builds BV.  I'd just like to see it rise.  

Edited December 16, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[videtur quam contuor]

Now THIS is an Urban Planet discussion.

[RANYC]

10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

For the NY tower, Peebles is just a name.  Witkoff, one of the most respected developers, is building it.

In Charlotte, I don't care who builds BV.  I'd just like to see it rise.  

What's the "it" you're so passionate about?

Are we talking the original plans?  1200 residential units, office building, hotel, and retail?

Just so everyone knows, the "it" can be seen under construction in tons of different places all around center-city Charlotte.