Brooklyn Village Redevelopment in 2nd Ward

[KJHburg]

speaking back of Brooklyn Village in Charlotte the Biz Journal reports this today:

""New York developer Don Peebles told a virtual Charlotte audience this week that his company’s long-awaited Brooklyn Village project will break ground within 16 to 18 months. And he did so for good reason: Terms of the agreement with Mecklenburg County require construction to begin by February 2023.  Little has been said about the project during the years since the county selected BK Partners to convert the site into housing, offices, shops, restaurants, parks and other shared public spaces. It’s planned as a three-phase, 10-year development.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

""Peebles Corp.’s partner in the project is Charlotte firm Conformity Corp. BK Partners and the county agreed to contract terms in July 2018. Mecklenburg County, for the moment, still owns all the property targeted for redevelopment.  Pat Cotham, a county commissioners board member, voted against the BK Partners proposal because of concerns over a lack of affordable housing and park space. And she remains skeptical that the project will be built. “I love North Carolina, but I’m from Missouri and I’ve always had a Show-Me State philosophy,” she told CBJ. “So, I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s been five years. I haven’t seen a shovel turned.”""

[Nick2]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:17 PM, TheRealClayton said:

Yes, I'm fully aware people are washing the world's money in New York, doesn't mean the city is booming having lived there for 12 years.

Please tell me Manhattan isn't going down the same path as Shanghai and Dubai with the residential boom. I mean I know they kind of started it in NY but is this investment going to continue to drive billionaires row and the like?

18 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

speaking back of Brooklyn Village in Charlotte the Biz Journal reports this today:

""New York developer Don Peebles told a virtual Charlotte audience this week that his company’s long-awaited Brooklyn Village project will break ground within 16 to 18 months. And he did so for good reason: Terms of the agreement with Mecklenburg County require construction to begin by February 2023.  Little has been said about the project during the years since the county selected BK Partners to convert the site into housing, offices, shops, restaurants, parks and other shared public spaces. It’s planned as a three-phase, 10-year development.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

""Peebles Corp.’s partner in the project is Charlotte firm Conformity Corp. BK Partners and the county agreed to contract terms in July 2018. Mecklenburg County, for the moment, still owns all the property targeted for redevelopment.  Pat Cotham, a county commissioners board member, voted against the BK Partners proposal because of concerns over a lack of affordable housing and park space. And she remains skeptical that the project will be built. “I love North Carolina, but I’m from Missouri and I’ve always had a Show-Me State philosophy,” she told CBJ. “So, I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s been five years. I haven’t seen a shovel turned.”""

Omg yes please! 

"As part of a recent forum, the lead developer in a major Second Ward project said it will be built as promised, but will likely be larger than anticipated."

[MarcoPolo]

Wow, spirited indeed  

I don't want to appear to pile on, because that is not my intent.   I believe this whole discussion was kicked off by enthusiastic support of Peebles' and his ability to deliver the goods here in Charlotte?  Enthusiasm supported by his latest "aspirational" road show in NYC?   TheRealClayton stated that Peebles is not a serious developer.  Unfortunately for Charlotte, this is a fairly accurate assessment.   Anyone in the NYC development scene will quietly acknowledge the same.   As regards his NYC project, we can all look back in 8 to 10 years and chat about what did/did not happen, just as we are doing here today, 8 to 10 years later, about his BV project.

The BV that finally is built will look very little to what has been window shopped the past 5 years.   Fortunately for the City, and us here on UP who want to see good outcomes for Charlotte, the Wake Forest / Atrium project landed right next door so to speak, were it not for the JB Freeway....  another topic of discussion

As actual developers circle and bite off chunks, BV will eventually coalesce into a respectable neighborhood once again, and this tragic bit of Charlotte's early urban renewal history will finally see its redemption.  These things will occur in-spite of Peebles' sideshow like, antics.  That is, as long as the current rendition of LH doesn't land a starring role in the effort!  

There is much to aspire to here in Charlotte, and much to overcome to succeed.  Comparisons to particularly unique aspects of places like NYC are neither relevant, nor constructive to any of the challenges confronting this city.   Arguing that the wealth and urban character enjoyed by a particularly unique, global sub-set of people, who locate in a handful of places on this Earth, can be easily transferred beyond that finite eco-system of bankers, builders, attorneys, and lobbyists who flutter about in the wake of their private jet engines, only highlights a lack of knowledge about cities and the global urban landscape.    Save words and thought for meaningful discourse and debate, not sideshow opinions.  

We need to raise the caliber of discussion on UP, on this thread and others.  People with influence do occasionally drop in to read the musings of our members.  Let's not disappoint them with sophomoric banter.  Our advocacy here can lead to more involved community awareness of the importance of developing proper urbanism.   We can still get our kicks with occasional skyscraper porn, but real cities are not made of skyscrapers.  One could argue that real cities often exist in-spite of them.  So let's get to it!  Charlotte is in dire need of real urbanism.  

 

 

[Nick2]

@MarcoPolois ok for someone who geeks out over this stuff to be a part of the conversation even though they have no real education or experience on the topic?

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

speaking back of Brooklyn Village in Charlotte the Biz Journal reports this today:

""New York developer Don Peebles told a virtual Charlotte audience this week that his company’s long-awaited Brooklyn Village project will break ground within 16 to 18 months. And he did so for good reason: Terms of the agreement with Mecklenburg County require construction to begin by February 2023.  Little has been said about the project during the years since the county selected BK Partners to convert the site into housing, offices, shops, restaurants, parks and other shared public spaces. It’s planned as a three-phase, 10-year development.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

""Peebles Corp.’s partner in the project is Charlotte firm Conformity Corp. BK Partners and the county agreed to contract terms in July 2018. Mecklenburg County, for the moment, still owns all the property targeted for redevelopment.  Pat Cotham, a county commissioners board member, voted against the BK Partners proposal because of concerns over a lack of affordable housing and park space. And she remains skeptical that the project will be built. “I love North Carolina, but I’m from Missouri and I’ve always had a Show-Me State philosophy,” she told CBJ. “So, I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s been five years. I haven’t seen a shovel turned.”""

So he says the project will break ground in 16 to 18 months, but the Development Agreement with Mecklenburg County requires construction in 14.5 months?  Does that mean BK Partners will go back to the County to amend the current Development Agreement...yet again?  

[KJHburg]

12 minutes ago, RANYC said:

So he says the project will break ground in 16 to 18 months, but the Development Agreement with Mecklenburg County requires construction in 14.5 months?  Does that mean BK Partners will go back to the County to amend the current Development Agreement...yet again?  

Hope not and they the county and the city  better not.  

[RANYC]

14 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Hope not and they the county and the city  better not.  

Can we please just give this to Crosland Southeast?  Next.

[Hushpuppy321]

I for one am encouraged that there has now been revealed a realistic timeline.  The nearby Med School Project will be a Catalyst causing BV to sprout activity possibly, sort of like the Scaleybark Mixed Use Project has sparked other developments in LoSo.

[Blue_Devil]

Hope not and they the county and the city  better not.  

My understanding of the timeline is they will be remediating and tearing down Bob Walton Plaza around December 2022, with ground breaking once that is complete.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeanClt]

Now, does construction mean movement (including demolition) or ground breaking by that timeframe.

[MarcoPolo]

12 hours ago, Nick2 said:

@MarcoPolois ok for someone who geeks out over this stuff to be a part of the conversation even though they have no real education or experience on the topic?

Most definitely Nick2!   Matters of such importance demand broad participation, from both the experienced and inexperienced, professional and novice.  Especially true when the topics discussed touch so many people across so many aspects of their daily lives, as for example, city planning and urban design do.   The glue that binds large groups together in productive conversation is the transfer of knowledge and lived experience to as many as possible, geeks included .   After all, a professional is just another way to describe a geek who took the extra step to learn everything possible about their passion.   Knowledge reduces the tendency for "opinion" and misinformation, to derail informed inquiry.

[queensguy06]

22 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Peebles Corp.’s partner in the project is Charlotte firm Conformity Corp. BK Partners and the county agreed to contract terms in July 2018. Mecklenburg County, for the moment, still owns all the property targeted for redevelopment.  Pat Cotham, a county commissioners board member, voted against the BK Partners proposal because of concerns over a lack of affordable housing and park space. And she remains skeptical that the project will be built. “I love North Carolina, but I’m from Missouri and I’ve always had a Show-Me State philosophy,” she told CBJ. “So, I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s been five years. I haven’t seen a shovel turned.”

 

Paging @Conformity  if he even still lurks on these forums - it's been a few years. Also, Conformity Corp. website is outdated by 2+ years with the latest project in their portfolio completing in 2017 - around the same time as Conformity's last post on this board.  Are there tea leaves to be read by this?

Edited December 18, 2021 by queensguy06

[deleted account]

11 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

My understanding of the timeline is they will be remediating and tearing down Bob Walton Plaza around December 2022, with ground breaking once that is complete.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I'm not mistaken, you seem to have a lot more confidence in this project than anyone else. There is major skepticism among most members. Do you have a direct connection to the project? You've referenced ongoing work and timelines that seem inconsistent with what others are saying and I'm sure I'm not the only one curious about your sources. 

[Blue_Devil]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

If I'm not mistaken, you seem to have a lot more confidence in this project than anyone else. There is major skepticism among most members. Do you have a direct connection to the project? You've referenced ongoing work and timelines that seem inconsistent with what others are saying and I'm sure I'm not the only one curious about your sources. 

I hear things in the industry I am in. Those things have been wrong in the past (IE Centene HQ in 3 months... a year later nothing) I am more confident in this one, because of some connections to this who are confident. But they could be wrong. 

[kayman]

Considering the history of this very area and the fact that Charlotte should be doing way more to foster its growing black-owned businesses and entrepreneur sector, this project should happen.  Yes, it should be a black owned company that does this project right.  Regardless of how long it takes it should be black-owned companies and actually have more black-owned contractors involved in this such as McFarland Construction, RJ Leeper, or Harmon Construction.

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, kayman said:

Considering the history of this very area and the fact that Charlotte should be doing way more to foster its growing black-owned businesses and entrepreneur sector, this project should happen.  Yes, it should be a black owned company that does this project right.  Regardless of how long it takes it should be black-owned companies and actually have more black-owned contractors involved in this such as McFarland Construction, RJ Leeper, or Harmon Construction.

So this isn't really Brooklyn Redevelopment, this is the Brooklyn Redress? 

Edited December 20, 2021 by RANYC

[SydneyCarton]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:56 PM, KJHburg said:

speaking back of Brooklyn Village in Charlotte the Biz Journal reports this today:

""New York developer Don Peebles told a virtual Charlotte audience this week that his company’s long-awaited Brooklyn Village project will break ground within 16 to 18 months. And he did so for good reason: Terms of the agreement with Mecklenburg County require construction to begin by February 2023.  Little has been said about the project during the years since the county selected BK Partners to convert the site into housing, offices, shops, restaurants, parks and other shared public spaces. It’s planned as a three-phase, 10-year development.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

""Peebles Corp.’s partner in the project is Charlotte firm Conformity Corp. BK Partners and the county agreed to contract terms in July 2018. Mecklenburg County, for the moment, still owns all the property targeted for redevelopment.  Pat Cotham, a county commissioners board member, voted against the BK Partners proposal because of concerns over a lack of affordable housing and park space. And she remains skeptical that the project will be built. “I love North Carolina, but I’m from Missouri and I’ve always had a Show-Me State philosophy,” she told CBJ. “So, I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s been five years. I haven’t seen a shovel turned.”""

That's good news.

[kayman]

9 hours ago, RANYC said:

So this isn't really Brooklyn Redevelopment, this is the Brooklyn Redress? 

Read up on the history of the Brooklyn neighborhood in Charlotte and you'll know what I meant.  Go ask an older long time black residents about the area called Brooklyn and they'll tell you a lot.  Charlotte owes its growing black residents population here a lot because of its history with that part of the city.  

[RANYC]

7 minutes ago, kayman said:

Read up on the history of the Brooklyn neighborhood in Charlotte and you'll know what I meant.  Go ask an older long time black residents about the area called Brooklyn and they'll tell you a lot.  Charlotte owes its growing black residents population here a lot because of its history with that part of the city.  

I've read up on Brooklyn.  But still not clear on whether this is redevelopment or redress, but assuming it is partially or mostly redress, then how does Don Peebles factor into that redress?  

If it is redress, in part or fully, does giving BK Partners full purchase and development rights to all 17 acres give the descendants of Brooklyn residents the redress they feel is owed?  What is Conformity Corp's role in this?  

[JeanClt]

So this isn't really Brooklyn Redevelopment, this is the Brooklyn Redress? 

The fact that they were discussing using minority contractors for this project for a while now, wouldn’t you have come to that conclusion already? I know RJ Leeper for example worked on the convention center renovations as well as the renovations and lobby expansion going on at the airport right now. I think they wouldn’t be a bad choice looking at what they do.

More recent article with some details about black-owned business being utilized on the project:

http:// https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

This project isn’t about remediation or compensation because you cannot bring back what is already gone. At least acknowledging history’s wrong doings on a population of people and the neighborhood erased, they could at least do something in memory and in honor of what was lost.

Projects like these are not just buildings built because there’s nothing or ever was anything there. There will always be a replacement of what was once there. Honoring what was once there is a symbolic gesture that is not only appreciated but also helps support underutilized businesses and support them through business in this case.

Edit: The developer themselves did not make this choice decades ago so it is clear this is not a redress. I believe it is really the county’s push to have the developer be sensitive about the land it is developing and the developer seems to be doing that in some capacity.

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, JeanClt said:

The fact that they were discussing using minority contractors for this project for a while now, wouldn’t you have come to that conclusion already? I know RJ Leeper for example worked on the convention center renovations as well as the renovations and lobby expansion going on at the airport right now. I think they wouldn’t be a bad choice looking at what they do.

More recent article with some details about black-owned business being utilized on the project:

http:// https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/12/17/brooklyn-village-to-start-by-february-2023.html

This project isn’t about remediation or compensation because you cannot bring back what is already gone. At least acknowledging history’s wrong doings on a population of people and the neighborhood erased, they could at least do something in memory and in honor of what was lost.

Projects like these are not just buildings built because there’s nothing or ever was anything there. There will always be a replacement of what was once there. Honoring what was once there is a symbolic gesture that is not only appreciated but also helps support underutilized businesses and support them through business in this case.

Edit: The developer themselves did not make this choice decades ago so it is clear this is not a redress. I believe it is really the county’s push to have the developer be sensitive about the land it is developing and the developer seems to be doing that in some capacity.

 In my readings, I'm picking up on a bit of ambivalence about what should be motivating the county's actions in regards to Brooklyn.  A reparations-like program concerning its history, or getting a large portion of the urban core "densified and revitalized" in as expedient a fashion as possible.  

I'm new to town and while I've read up on Brooklyn's history and plans, the idea of redress or a form of reparations is only brought up somewhat tangentially or indirectly.  Everyone sort of tip toes around the idea of this project as redress, but it seems like fundamentally it is.  And no matter how much Peebles delays this or how thin Peebles' resume may be in pulling something like this off, he has the leverage because he can invoke the "use of minority contractors" and maybe even guilt-induced sentimentality on the part of the city and county to basically hold the city and county "over a barrel."

Also, I'm still unclear if it was the right idea to give the entire 17-acre urban redevelopment opportunity to just Peebles & BK Partners.  I'm sure this was a question the County already wrestled with and analyzed...I just haven't come across the analysis yet in the history of articles I've read about the evolution of these plans.  If someone has some insight here or article/study links, I'd be happy to read them.

Edited December 20, 2021 by RANYC

[go_vertical]

14 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Also, I'm still unclear if it was the right idea to give the entire 17-acre urban redevelopment opportunity to just Peebles & BK Partners.

I think this should have been split amongst three or four developers. 

[j-man]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:33 PM, RANYC said:

So this isn't really Brooklyn Redevelopment, this is the Brooklyn Redress? 

Just dirty ole gentrification. Whats new?

[nicholas]

10 hours ago, j-man said:

Just dirty ole gentrification. Whats new?

I mean...who really lives in 2nd Ward currently?  (Other than at the apartments between Stonewall and 277?)

[DMann]

The Madison, SKYE Condos, The Ratcliffe, all high end condos in the 2nd Ward