Church Street Plaza | 28-Story Office/Hotel [Phase 1 Under Construction]

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

WTH are they talking about "first post-recession high rise"? Do Citi Tower and Skyhouse not count? If you are saying commercial, then ok, but don't BS your story without qualifying you are talking about office space not residential.

I wouldn't put any faith in the details any of these "journalists" are spouting off.  The plans still show outdoor platform, and I haven't seen any updates.

I think it was pretty clear from the video that they were talking about commercial high-rises in the core, not residential.  

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

You just saw an update. Says indoor station.

Unless there has been a redesign, the approved development will have an outdoor platform overhang:  http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/06/MPBStaffReport2015-06_MPL2015-000091.pdf

 

[jrs2]

^^

that was my understanding all along.  just like FH South's platform against an office building and garage structure.  This would be no different.

[Dale]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

Unless there has been a redesign, the approved development will have an outdoor platform overhang:  http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/06/MPBStaffReport2015-06_MPL2015-000091.pdf

 

Which a redesign would explain the delay.

[JFW657]

Channel 9 just reported they'll have building permits in about a month or so.

 

[RedStar25]

The Ballroom was initially constructed in 1901? Hmmm....

[uncreativeusername]

On 7/6/2016 at 11:46 AM, prahaboheme said:

In the video, they are insisting that this will be an indoor stop:  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-tremont-plaza-will-serve-as-sunrail-s-first-indoor-station-orlando-news-now-20160705-premiumvideo.html

It is still unclear to me what part of the station will be indoor but i'll wager that it'll be an indoor lobby area with an outdoor platform.

 

I'm reading this the same way...and what's the point of the platform being inside anyway?  Station inside to me = waiting area, ticket booths, maybe a mini-mart, and then walk outside and directly onto train via covered platform.  Still a great scenario.  

[Dale]

What I'm confused about: isn't the existing Church Street station just steps away from this station ? Would this station replace the Church Street station.

[metal93]

I was thinking covered platform as well, but is it just a roof over the platform or do they plan the upper stories of Tremont Tower to cantilever over the platform? If it's the latter, they might be able to get away with calling it "indoors." Especially if they can put platform screen doors to truly make it indoors, like they do in many platforms around the world:

But this is pure speculation. Odds are that the station/platform is truly just a canopy over the platform, with a cafe and/or waiting area inside the building, the media probably threw in the word "indoors" to excite and confuse people. Even if it's a simple canopy, it's still a great thing if Tremont gets built at all.

 

Whatever they do, I hope FDOT considers a crossing between the platforms like the other stations have, and hopefully  put a canopy over it so one can go from the Tremont Tower/southbound platform to the northbound platform without having to cross at Church or South St, in addition to not getting wet. I'm actually hoping covered crossings are considered for the other stations too, it can't be that hard to build a roof over the crossing.

 

[Jernigan]

56 minutes ago, Dale said:

What I'm confused about: isn't the existing Church Street station just steps away from this station ? Would this station replace the Church Street station.

The SunRail stations, with the exception of Winter Park's shared station with Amtrak, are just platforms.  Slabs of concrete with a canopy, ticket machines and water fountains.   The historic train depot has never been a part of SunRail.   When Ferg's opened, being as awesome as they are, they cut into the iron fences really integrating their own private restaurant space with the Northbound SunRail platform.  Whatever happens with Tremont, it looks like the Southbound platform is going to be moved from it's current location south of Anderson Street to it's more appropriate spot directly across from the Northbound platform.  This is the way the other 11 stations are but FDOT didn't have the R-O-W to do it at Church Street.   

50 minutes ago, metal93 said:

I was thinking covered platform as well, but is it just a roof over the platform or do they plan the upper stories of Tremont Tower to cantilever over the platform? If it's the latter, they might be able to get away with calling it "indoors." Especially if they can put platform screen doors to truly make it indoors, like they do in many platforms around the world:

...

Whatever they do, I hope FDOT considers a crossing between the platforms like the other stations have, and hopefully  put a canopy over it so one can go from the Tremont Tower/southbound platform to the northbound platform without having to cross at Church or South St, in addition to not getting wet. I'm actually hoping covered crossings are considered for the other stations too, it can't be that hard to build a roof over the crossing.

 

The image you posted would be amazing.  I'd be really surprised if they'd let anything come close to the tracks.  They are really big on safety and how a penny on the tracks can kill you 30 feet away type stuff.   There have been cities that couldn't even get a trail approved adjacent to the tracks.  This is Downtown and everything is already on top of the tracks so hopefully they are flexible.  To me, this is the best case scenario.  I just can't picture a CSX freight train or Amtrak train rolling through a building lobby or atrium to be anything anyone wants to be a part of.

To your last point, once the Southbound platform moves up from it's current location, I imagine those crossings will be added like every other station.  The current setup is a disaster from the pedestrian hazards crossing Anderson mid-block to the fact that only the one side has a vending machine that takes cash.  Not sure about covered crossings though.  They'd have to be pretty high up to clear all the types of trains...if they are that high up, how big would they need to be to keep you from getting wet?  

[Dale]

Thanks for the explanation, Jernigan. Makes perfect sense.

[dcluley98]

1 hour ago, metal93 said:

is it just a roof over the platform or do they plan the upper stories of Tremont Tower to cantilever over the platform?

From the current plan, the upper stories of Tremont Tower will cantilever over the platform. The only problem is, the footprint of the building is rather small and cannot accommodate the full train size, so I assume the platform would have to extend north or south with a canopy to effect a full station. In concert with this, the small footprint includes only 8-9,000 SF of indoor space, which must include building amenities such as mechanical space, elevators, storage space, janitorial closet, etc.  The ground floor currently has planned a lobby, a restaurant, a coffee shop, a banking area for main tenant, Fairwinds, and some miscellaneous spaces, but I did not see any space reserved for a ticketing office and/or waiting areas other than the paying cafe areas.  It is definitely a better option, however, in this location north of South Street and more connected to downtown, with real amenities and an air condition space to perhaps wait in and direct connection to Church Street.  

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

Here is a helpful diagram, (Quick and Dirty, not to scale) of the google aerial, showing the site, on the left, and the current SunRail platform, on the right, and the current platform canopy distance copied over to the available land on the site with equal distance arrows.  (I used straight lines, not arc vs. line because math).  I don't know how much of the existing platform is currently used by the train and/or how much tolerance there is in available platform vs. needed space for a train to accurately stop and board passengers, however, it is clear that the lot for the proposed tower and station is much smaller than the current platform.

From the current plans, they intend to extend the platform North in a second phase.  Once the first phase is constructed, SunRail demand increases, the building has successful tenants who use the station, and the funding occurs to demolish the iconic ballroom to tie in to the existing Church Street complex, the former platform would be replaced. (ahem, slight long shot here) 

Excerpts regarding the station plan:

• Transportation Planning: 7. SunRail Southbound Platform: The initial portion of the SunRail platform that runs parallel and is integrated to the site shall be constructed concurrent with the rest of the new structure. This platform should be designed so that trains park, at a minimum, 75 feet north of the edge of South St right-of-way. When the north section of the development parcel, known as the ballroom, is redeveloped as phase 2, the SunRail platform should be continued and readied for full operation.
• Transportation Planning: 10. SunRail Southbound Platform: The SunRail system launched in May 2014 allowing thousands of people in the region to reach Downtown Orlando. This system provides enormous benefit particularly the business and properties near the stations. The proposed development is one such property. As shown in the application, a new station location is planned for the site and would be embedded into the structure. However, the proposed phase 1 of this site, south of the ‘Ballroom’, is not long enough to contain a full station. Discussions with SunRail operations are ongoing at the time of this report. The City supports the plan for a new SunRail station being constructed by the applicant subject to FDOT review and approval. When the north section of the development parcel is redeveloped as phase 2, the SunRail platform should be continued and readied for full operation.
• Transportation Engineering: 5. SunRail Platform. There are concerns that the platform in this phase may not meet FDOT requirements for the staging of a SunRail stop. Coordination with SunRail will be required to ensure that the train can utilize the proposed platform.

SOURCE: http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/06/MPBStaffReport2015-06_MPL2015-000091.pdf

Granted, this plan is a year old, but I haven't seen any other ones submitted.  Please inform me if there have been updates and I will re-evaluate this assessment, however, currently, it seems to be developer double+good-marketing-speek hyperbolic pipe dreams to get the tower approved, tenants on board, financing in place, and out of the ground (not a bad thing necessarily).

I have such high hopes for this, I wish it would all come true!

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by dcluley98

[prahaboheme]

Do they have permission to demolish the Church Street Ballroom?  I would be sad to see this building go.

If the city really wants an indoor station at this location, perhaps retrofitting the ballroom and arcade into a station could be a best case scenario..

[dcluley98]

I guess I shouldn't say demolish.  I haven't seen any plans for "Phase 2" and don't know if they exist.  The Phase I plan that is public says phase 2 will be "redevelopment of the Ballroom site".  I assumed that meant tearing it down and building on the site.  Redevelopment of the ballroom into a train station would be awesome though!

[alex]

On page 9 of last year's plans, there's a connection from the parking garage going towards the Church Street Ballroom labeled "FUTURE RAMP TO PHASE 2 PROJECT." Not sure how this would work--Do they want to demolish the Ballroom? Build a parking deck over it? Add a patio space on top?

After all the restoration work the Tremont-owned venue management company did on the Orchid Garden part of the Ballroom, I doubt they would demolish it.

EDIT: Maybe it's not necessarily a ramp for cars, but more like a pedestrian bridge to a new floor they could add to the Ballroom? Just speculating.

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by alex

[gibby]

It's really only the east 10-15 feet that needs to be worked on.  It would be awesome for this to be fixed up so people could walk between Church and South on that side of the tracks.

[jrs2]

^^

Oh.  So when the tower is built, a new shorter southbound platform will be built at its base, running just the length of the building's base.  If and when the ballroom parcel is redeveloped, they will then extend this new southbound platform farther north towards Church St. right?

[Jernigan]

Don't see FDOT budging on platform length.   The trains they run now with 4 cars need most of it

[John Hargrove]

OBJ reporting work to begin by the end of the month. Guessing this just means closing of the lot and tearing up the parking lot?

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2016/07/work-on-downtowns-new-mixed-use-tower-to-start.html

From the article:

Site work is expected to commence by the end of the month at Garland Avenue and South Street that will house the future Tremont Plaza, Steve Rivers, southeastern regional vice president of project general contractor Austin Commercial LP, told Orlando Business Journal.

No new news on tenants. Still just Fairwinds + the team of companies working on the project.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, Jernigan said:

Don't see FDOT budging on platform length.   The trains they run now with 4 cars need most of it

so if that's the case, then if just the tower is built, the existing southbound platform continues to service that stop and no other platform is built until they develop the ballroom parcel in a later phase 2.

[Jernigan]

Fence permit applied for last week.   Also some system notes from last month regarding a change of contractors

[jrs2]

^^

change of contractors...just like I-shops Megamall.  hmmm...

[Jernigan]

Sorry, Dale.   Don't think this one is happening.  I can say for sure that Fairwinds isn't packing their bags yet.

[Tim3167]

Nooooooooo!!!