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Church Street Plaza | 28-Story Office/Hotel [Phase 1 Under Construction]


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Spenser is right. The only question is how deep is the number of renters that want to to live downtown and at what price. I am sure if units were under $1400, would could support thousands of new units. But you cannot build anything that cheap anymore. 

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11 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

My understanding has been that they've pretty much been able to fill the apartments coming online without too much difficulty. As long as folks (except Dale) find Downtown desirable and keep moving in, it seems like they'll keep building. Now, if we can just get some retail to go along with all those new heads in beds.

I might also mention that I have been stunned lately at how crowded the Publix at The Paramount is getting - anecdotally, it seems well on its way to being almost as busy as the Colonialtown Publix.

Meanwhile, over in Tampa, a Publix is finally under construction in a new channelside development. And even know, that seems like somewhat of a gamble.

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On 2/27/2017 at 9:43 PM, RedStar25 said:

According to my friends  it's "sleeping". Whatever that means. 

It's "sleeping" until one or more major corporate tenants commit to pre-leasing a substantial amount of the office space.  Until then, it's speculative and will never get financed.  It's unfortunate, but it's reality.  And while Orlando's job market is extremely strong, it's being driven by tourisim/hospitality (of course) and smaller business, less so large corporate users who could make Tremont a reality.  Tampa has the edge on ORL for corporate users and I don't think the Vinik development will help Orlando any (as far as demand for downtown office development goes).        

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Vinik Development or I think it is Strategic Property Partners now, calls for 9 Million SF of Mixed use Office, Residential, Hotel, Retail, and Garages on their website ($3 billion total). The first phase is 1 office tower, 1 hotel, and two residential towers I believe.  It will include probably 1 million SF of Class A office space and associated parking garage.  There is no way our downtown can compete with that for corporate clients right now. These people have the money and years of a headstart on anything that we would have being developed for commercial towers in Orlando.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2016/09/19/heres-what-to-expect-in-the-first-phase-of-the.html

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On 3/1/2017 at 10:33 AM, jrs2 said:

^^

Do you think the developers of 520 are at all discouraged by the influx of new residential units getting built right now?

They recently applied to extend their permit by a few months.  Hopefully, this is not bad news.

Received request to extend permit application approved. Set to expire May 14, 2017

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22 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Vinik Development or I think it is Strategic Property Partners now, calls for 9 Million SF of Mixed use Office, Residential, Hotel, Retail, and Garages on their website ($3 billion total). The first phase is 1 office tower, 1 hotel, and two residential towers I believe.  It will include probably 1 million SF of Class A office space and associated parking garage.  There is no way our downtown can compete with that for corporate clients right now. These people have the money and years of a headstart on anything that we would have being developed for commercial towers in Orlando.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2016/09/19/heres-what-to-expect-in-the-first-phase-of-the.html

Orlando is so massively ahead of Tampa in terms of downtown. Now Vinik is a smart guy and his momentum is shooting past what is happening here with CV and the rest of the core. In 5-10 years Tampa may actually have a livable downtown with life beyond 7PM but they are sad right now.

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Brandon, and others -  I am just referring to the Class A office space, not everything else.  My statement was simply that we can't compete with that specific tower for corporate clients right now. We don't have any funded commercial projects that are a go (rumors on Capital Plaza III, Tremont, and a couple of others.)  They will be behind this project from a commercial space standpoint.

I agree that we are ahead of Tampa and more than compete for the other aspects of residential, retail, and hotels.  DT Orlando is way more vibrant than DT Tampa.  Haven't been to Tampa recently, but the last time I was there, it was like a ghost-town.  People just drive in and out to the offices there and didn't seem to actually want to "live and play" in the area.  The couple of recent developments that they have done to address this are really working though, in the Riverwalk and Channelside district.  SPP development will really be the game changer with critical mass.

Edited by dcluley98
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^^

Real estate is unique.  There is a demand for housing near Lake Eola, which is in a non-industrial part of downtown.  That's not the same story with Channelside.  That's one of the main things that separates these two downtowns.

Some of the projects near Channelside have a similar neighborhood feel to Orlando's Cityview Apts; they are redevelopment projects near either run down or undeveloped parts of their downtown.

If the Vinik development in Tampa is going to build a 1M sqft tower, then that means they already have a tenant or tenants lined up.  Orlando's potential "tenants" go out to the suburbs unfortunately.

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Downtown Orlando is certainly more synergistic than Downtown Tampa at this juncture. But Orlando needs to step up its game if:  Vinik is going to revitalize half the CBD in a radial manner. Add to that piecemeal improvements to the other half.

Mass-transit's probably a wash. Tampans would give their eye teeth for commuter rail, Orlandoans the same for a streetcar.

 

 

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I'm sorry but hasn't this "Re-vitalization" of Tampa been on the books for over a decade? They have unfinished road projects, lots of plans, but nothings happening. 

I drove through downtown about a year ago and nothing changer since the mid 90s. 

Edited by RedStar25
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11 hours ago, RedStar25 said:

I'm sorry but hasn't this "Re-vitalization" of Tampa been on the books for over a decade? They have unfinished road projects, lots of plans, but nothings happening. 

I drove through downtown about a year ago and nothing changer since the mid 90s. 

It has gotten a lot better. I always thought Orlando outdid Tampa in the 2000's but Tampa started catching up in the 2010's. But they have too many different downtown districts for it to feel cohesive. 

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Downtown Tampa has some nice museums and the streets are wider. River walk seems to be very popular there when I stayed at Aloft.

Downtown Orlando right now feel like a college town. We are a long way from tattoo parlor age and downtown has improved a lot over the year. But if I-drive and downtown are closer to each other, it will be a different story. I would like downtown Orlando to be more like Fort Lauderdale.

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2 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Downtown Tampa has some nice museums and the streets are wider. River walk seems to be very popular there when I stayed at Aloft.

Downtown Orlando right now feel like a college town. We are a long way from tattoo parlor age and downtown has improved a lot over the year. But if I-drive and downtown are closer to each other, it will be a different story. I would like downtown Orlando to be more like Fort Lauderdale.

After many fits and starts, it's changing now. With regards to Orlando, remember when, back in the 90's, Candela of Spillis and Candela declared that, bit by bit, Orlando was building the finest downtown in America ? Well, what happened with that ?

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44 minutes ago, Dale said:

After many fits and starts, it's changing now. With regards to Orlando, remember when, back in the 90's, Candela of Spillis and Candela declared that, bit by bit, Orlando was building the finest downtown in America ? Well, what happened with that ?

What's funny is we have an awesome WalkScore for downtown and get kudos for almost everything that has come along downtown. What retail we have added (the Publix and Plaza Cinema Café) have all been successful with more amenities on the way. The folks at City Hall have a pro-urban mindset (that wasn't always the case) when it comes to downtown. Heaven help us, even the OC folks on Rosalind aren't fighting everything and threatening to move to I-Drive or 33rd Street anymore. Walking around, there are more people on the streets (and not just transients!)  than I can recall almost ever, but in these threads you'd think our downtown was a failure. Living back downtown since 1983, I'm having some difficulty understanding the angst.

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1 hour ago, sunshine said:

But if I-drive and downtown are closer to each other, it will be a different story.

I went to an event at Pointe Orlando last night, heading there from my office downtown. I had the exact same thought: two important nodes that just need one really simple, fast, and reliable connection. Something like downtown to the Convention Center (via I-4, Vineland, Universal Blvd, I-Drive) would be phenomenal and help out both locals and visitors. I think that would help open downtown up to more office development, since right now it's considered not only expensive but also hard to get to.

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1 hour ago, alex said:

I went to an event at Pointe Orlando last night, heading there from my office downtown. I had the exact same thought: two important nodes that just need one really simple, fast, and reliable connection. Something like downtown to the Convention Center (via I-4, Vineland, Universal Blvd, I-Drive) would be phenomenal and help out both locals and visitors. I think that would help open downtown up to more office development, since right now it's considered not only expensive but also hard to get to.

Would LOVE. It's a pain in the butt to go between downtown and the attractions area right now. Traffic is HORRID, at ALL times of the day. Seriously, even at 2p on a Saturday. 

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16 hours ago, RedStar25 said:

I'm sorry but hasn't this "Re-vitalization" of Tampa been on the books for over a decade? They have unfinished road projects, lots of plans, but nothings happening. 

I drove through downtown about a year ago and nothing changer since the mid 90s. 

The Vinik stuff is I think only like 3 years old? If only the DeVossesesesess had anywhere near the vision that he does.

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