Church Street Plaza | 28-Story Office/Hotel [Phase 1 Under Construction]

[Jernigan]

Does anyone know why banks find it appealing to put their names on towers more than anyone else?  It’s exclusively banks downtown I think...I don’t see the marketing angle that applies to them and none other.   Conversely arenas and stadiums are named by a broad range of business types.

[prahaboheme]

4 hours ago, I am Reality said:

The real headline...one of downtown's largest tenants is significantly downsizing.

Am I the only one who saw that? 

I love the attitude of everyone on here...

Orlando deserves major downtown development.

Because it's Orlando! Yay!

Only we skipped one little step...bringing in high-wage jobs. 

If we had more professional & tech jobs, we wouldn't be begging for a 28 story building with a very large parking garage.  Skyscrapers would be popping up all over town overnight. 

Just because it's the only thing you focus on with your narrow view of Reality, does not mean others missed anything.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

I don't understand banks constantly opening new branches. They are downsizing a lot of stuff, pushing technology to make it so you never need to go to a bank anymore but every corner has a new bank on it now.

I've noticed BoA closing brick and mortar branches in favor of stand alone ATM spots.

This was the BoA branch that closed in 2016 off of OBT/Holden

This across the street from that branch today.  

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

I don't think you and I are in disagreement.  

I would take issue with the term "commerce", but that's just semantics.  

"Commerce" brings to mind malls & strip malls. But I agree with the main thrust of what you are saying.  

Downtowns typically develop because of demand from high-margin businesses.  Downtown land is typically the most expansive in a metro area.  It is only cost-effective to use the space for high-wage employees.  That typically applies to corporate HQs, regional hubs, tech, biotech, investment firms, banks, law, and accounting firms.  (There is also usually non-profit government offices and education). 

The obvious lack of downtown development is a direct result of the lack of those types of jobs.  

There is NOTHING preventing more development other than the lack of demand.  During the recession (and for years afterward), banks would not finance new projects nationwide. That does not apply anymore.  There is a national building boom right now.  Orlando has been left behind. 

As for us being overshadowed by larger  cities in FL, Austin seems to be doing very well.  So does San Jose.  There are few examples because there are few laege states.  

I would say that we are in disagreement on a few points.

1) The term "commerce" refers to business of any kind. That could mean shipping, transportation, agriculture, insurance, banking, management, whatever. Some cities are hubs for specific areas of commerce within their state or region, like insurance, railroads, banking, etc. Orlando does not have that distinction. Miami is Florida's banking center. Jacksonville is an insurance and railroad hub. Tampa is home I suppose, to a lot of shipping concerns. And as I said, those cities and their downtowns were all established before downtown Orlando really even became a player.

2) I don't agree that downtown high rises are the result of the need for workspaces for high wage workers. It's tied to the need for clerical and administrative office space and the desire by corporations to have their HQs located in high profile, centralized locations. High wage tech jobs can exist anywhere and don't require tall buildings.

3) I agree that a lack of demand is what drives the lack of downtown high rise office buildings in Orlando, and that banks would not finance new projects a few years ago, but I disagree with your reasoning as to why. I feel that it's simply a result of very few large corporations looking for large amounts of office space in downtown Orlando because we have so many other large metro areas in Florida where these corporations have already chosen as their homes. Any new arrival corporations probably want to be in the same cities as the competitors in their field.

4) Austin and San Jose don't have super awesome tall skylines either. Plus, the other major cities in their states aren't in as close proximity to each other as those in Florida are.

Bottom line, there are a lot of complex and intertwined factors involved. To say it all just boils down to a lack of high-paying tech jobs downtown is, I think, an oversimplification.

JMHO.

[nite owℓ]

@codypet They even treat the downtown location the same way -- B of A permanently closed the drive thru and have made simple indoor transactions so frustrating that you'd rather deal with the ATM outside in the scorching heat instead. If you try to deposit/cash a check inside, you have to wait in a 10+ person line for only 1-2 tellers who will then try to up-sell you on products further backing up the line. Their business model stinks now.

Edited April 13, 2018 by nite owℓ

[I am Reality]

35 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I would say that we are in disagreement on a few points.

1) The term "commerce" refers to business of any kind. That could mean shipping, transportation, agriculture, insurance, banking, management, whatever. Some cities are hubs for specific areas of commerce within their state or region, like insurance, railroads, banking, etc. Orlando does not have that distinction. Miami is Florida's banking center. Jacksonville is an insurance and railroad hub. Tampa is home I suppose, to a lot of shipping concerns. And as I said, those cities and their downtowns were all established before downtown Orlando really even became a player.

2) I don't agree that downtown high rises are the result of the need for workspaces for high wage workers. It's tied to the need for clerical and administrative office space and the desire by corporations to have their HQs located in high profile, centralized locations. High wage tech jobs can exist anywhere and don't require tall buildings.

3) I agree that a lack of demand is what drives the lack of downtown high rise office buildings in Orlando, and that banks would not finance new projects a few years ago, but I disagree with your reasoning as to why. I feel that it's simply a result of very few large corporations looking for large amounts of office space in downtown Orlando because we have so many other large metro areas in Florida where these corporations have already chosen as their homes. Any new arrival corporations probably want to be in the same cities as the competitors in their field.

4) Austin and San Jose don't have super awesome tall skylines either. Plus, the other major cities in their states aren't in as close proximity to each other as those in Florida are.

Bottom line, there are a lot of complex and intertwined factors involved. To say it all just boils down to a lack of high-paying tech jobs downtown is, I think, an oversimplification.

JMHO.

You make some good points. I don't have much to disagree with.

I would point out that businesses don't pay $60 or $80/square foot for secretaries and clerks in other cities.  There is alway essential support staff to assist the professionals.  But most non-essential staff is moved offsite or outsourced all together.  I worked at one firm where the support staff was moved to the suburbs.  Eventually, it was outsourced hundreds of miles away to Massachusetts.

Also, San Jose is closer to SF than Orlando is to Tampa.  San Diego is very close to LA. I Austin is a little over an hour from San Antionio and 2 1/2 from Houston. 

 

[dcluley98]

There are really 5 main factors that determine building height:

Economics (Supply and demand, ROI, etc)

Laws/Codes/Zoning

Logistics/Synergy 

Geography/Existing Conditions

Ego/Attention

I would say Orlando doesn't rank very high on any of those factors, which is why we don't see many tall buildings.

 

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

You make some good points. I don't have much to disagree with.

I would point out that businesses don't pay $60 or $80/square foot for secretaries and clerks in other cities.  There is alway essential support staff to assist the professionals.  But most non-essential staff is moved offsite or outsourced all together.  I worked at one firm where the support staff was moved to the suburbs.  Eventually, it was outsourced hundreds of miles away to Massachusetts.

Also, San Jose is closer to SF than Orlando is to Tampa.  San Diego is very close to LA. I Austin is a little over an hour from San Antionio and 2 1/2 from Houston. 

Absolutely true about not paying high rents just for secretaries and clerks, but those positions compromise a relatively small percentage of most corporate offices. Aside from upper level administrators, there are assistants, data analysts, statisticians, researchers, account reps, IT dept, human resources dept, etc, etc, etc. A really large company can employ hundreds of such employees.

[WAJAS]

Red Lobster has that... well... red lobster on their HQ downtown.

11 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Does anyone know why banks find it appealing to put their names on towers more than anyone else?  It’s exclusively banks downtown I think...I don’t see the marketing angle that applies to them and none other.   Conversely arenas and stadiums are named by a broad range of business types.

 

[leondecollao]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:52 PM, Jernigan said:

Does anyone know why banks find it appealing to put their names on towers more than anyone else?  It’s exclusively banks downtown I think...I don’t see the marketing angle that applies to them and none other.   Conversely arenas and stadiums are named by a broad range of business types.

The marketing associated with it does only apply to banks in most cases - the banks are marketing to everyone in the community and have a real need to make their presence known.  Most other big tenants downtown have no need to market to the community and are very niche in who they need to market to (law firms, accounting firms, etc).

[Jernigan]

Your wrong about law firms needing to market to everyone.

Sincerely,

Every billboard and LYNX bus in Orlando 

[spenser1058]

For the People!

[Dale]

When my wife and I were in Cocoa Beach, 2015-16, caring for her invalid mother. One day we asked her what she was watching on TV. She smiled and replied, "Morgan and Morgan!"

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

For the People Money!

FTFY. 

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, Dale said:

When my wife and I were in Cocoa Beach, 2015-16, caring for her invalid mother. One day we asked her what she was watching on TV. She smiled and replied, "Morgan and Morgan!"

Should've asked her "Which episode?" 

[codypet]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:26 PM, JFW657 said:

Should've asked her "Which episode?" 

The one with the dogs.

[HankStrong]

Offices Orlando

[RedStar25]

I'm sorry, what's the topic about again? 7-11? 

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, RedStar25 said:

I'm sorry, what's the topic about again? 7-11? 

Nope, 7-Eleven is sooooo last week. We've moved on to Morgan and Morgan just for you!

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, RedStar25 said:

I'm sorry, what's the topic about again? 7-11? 

It could be...... 

[DreS0803]

Here a quick update on construction.

Also bizjournals wrote an article about how much it would help Orlando if SunTrust moved into CSP.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2018/04/17/suntrusts-move-out-of-most-sought-after-building.html

[sunshine]

We keep hearing that there are  "needs" for large continuous chunk of office space downtown and how low the vacancy rate it, but nobody wants to build a brand new office tower until Lincoln and it is not even that big.

Then you have Orlando Magic office building that is so delayed.

[Jernigan]

Orlando doesn’t command the rents for new office construction.   Lincoln pulled this off thanks to the hotel.

Lets see how quickly the vacated space in Suntrust and Seaside fill 

[Dale]

While Orlando is one of the few Florida downtowns not getting taller, it is adding highrises at a fairly robust rate, about a dozen or more planned or under construction.

[codypet]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

While Orlando is one of the few Florida downtowns not getting taller, it is adding highrises at a fairly robust rate, about a dozen or more planned or under construction.

Some of use remember the days of Orlandoskyscrapers.net.  

Also I wonder how much of this Suntrust move is about visibility.

How much of this view is lost to ramps and CSP?