Church Street Plaza | 28-Story Office/Hotel [Phase 1 Under Construction]

[JFW657]

14 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

So, if Phase II does in fact get built, what do you think Lincoln will do with all of that stuff?  Repurpose it into a new or other project?  Auction it?  Hopefully not toss it, right?

I kinda look forward to proposals on already-vacant lots, as do most of us.  Then, these conflicts don't come into play...  CSP, Aspire, etc...shoot, throw in 55W as well b/c it was just a 2 story Jungle Jim's & Howl retail plaza, which more or less still exists underneath.

The Ballroom... wow...I'm so torn on that one.

They'd never discard that stuff because it's worth a fortune. They'd sell it off for everything they could get for it. Even the glass, metal and masonry get recycled. Very little goes to the dump anymore.

[prahaboheme]

13 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Neither of those buildings were "historic" and their relevance is solely a matter of opinion. Obviously yours and mine differ on that point.

I recall when I was against tearing down the two old buildings on the SW corner of Eola Park in order to plunk an ugly high rise monstrosity in their place, I got some backlash over that, too.

And very little support from some here who claim to be staunchly pro-preservation.

Whatever. 

One of the few remaining examples of streamline modernism in the state was worth saving. 

I recall the proposal to tear down those homes to be replaced by a high rise. I don’t remember it be particularly popular on this forum. 

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

One of the few remaining examples of streamline modernism in the state was worth saving. 

We're all entitled to our opinions. I just don't see how such a minor, piddling example of "streamline moderne" architecture should have stood in the way of redeveloping a blighted, run down block in the heart of downtown, with a modern high rise complex and plaza that was such a better fit for that location.

As for it being "one of the few remaining examples" in the state, take a trip to Miami Beach and you'll see several real examples of it...

Believe me, had the McCrory's building been anywhere near something on this scale, I'd have been right there with you. But honestly, if the McCrory's building been more like the one pictured above, they'd have never razed it to begin with.

The reason that block got razed is because the buildings were not significant and not worth saving.

7 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

I recall the proposal to tear down those homes to be replaced by a high rise. I don’t remember it be particularly popular on this forum. 

Actually it was kinda popular. And it certainly wasn't protested much. If you'll check the link I provided, you'll see that I was the only one who really did. Your mild protestations were lukewarm at best. Tepid, even to the point of bordering on support.

.

Edited February 22, 2019 by JFW657

[DreS0803]

North Elevation Update.

Seems like the floor height has slimmed a bit now that they’re onto the hotel rooms. 

[JFW657]

Not sure if or how much I'm going to like that east facing garage wall treatment when it's all done.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

31 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Not sure if or how much I'm going to like that east facing garage wall treatment when it's all done.

I think it's hideous.

[DreS0803]

20 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I think it's hideous.

Agreed. Is that the final product?

[JFW657]

If you'll notice the lower portion on the north end, it looks like maybe they're going to use a different material there, given the way it seems to just stop vertically and horizontally. That might improve the appearance somewhat. Wouldn't like to see the entire wall covered with that... stuff.

[AndyPok1]

22 hours ago, gibby said:

I really hope Phase 2 has a large residential component.  It would be great to have something compliment 55W which kinda sits over there all alone.

Solaire is literally a block away.  City View is 3 blocks farther west. 

[prahaboheme]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

We're all entitled to our opinions. I just don't see how such a minor, piddling example of "streamline moderne" architecture should have stood in the way of redeveloping a blighted, run down block in the heart of downtown, with a modern high rise complex and plaza that was such a better fit for that location.

As for it being "one of the few remaining examples" in the state, take a trip to Miami Beach and you'll see several real examples of it...

Believe me, had the McCrory's building been anywhere near something on this scale, I'd have been right there with you. But honestly, if the McCrory's building been more like the one pictured above, they'd have never razed it to begin with.

The reason that block got razed is because the buildings were not significant and not worth saving.

Actually it was kinda popular. And it certainly wasn't protested much. If you'll check the link I provided, you'll see that I was the only one who really did. Your mild protestations were lukewarm at best. Tepid, even to the point of bordering on support.

.

Don’t be silly.

I have always been a proponent of preservation over replacement. Meanwhile, you’ve gone out of your way to criticize those who do.

Edited February 22, 2019 by prahaboheme

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Don’t be silly.

I have always been a proponent of preservation over replacement. Meanwhile, you’ve gone out of your way to criticize those who do.

BTW, have you seen the Streamline Hotel in DB after the redo?  it's awesome.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Don’t be silly.

I have always been a proponent of preservation over replacement. Meanwhile, you’ve gone out of your way to criticize those who do.

"Silly"??? I provided a link to the page where it was discussed.

Here it is again in case for some reason you didn't look at it the first time:

Your most forceful comments on the issue were...

"Unfortunately, its been made clear through actions as well as intentions for land use that nothing is safe in the South Eola neighborhood.  Block by block the remnants of our past have been erased.  The reality is, all we can do is plan for thoughtful design to ensure that future development adds value to the existing urban environment.  This should include protection of Lake Eola from privatization."

"This architect has another project in Minneapolis with more of an art deco tower vibe.  I really wish Orlando's development had gone this route to fit in better with some of it's neighbors along Lake Eola."

"Instead of encroaching on public land, why doesn't the developer build a restaurant / cafe space a few floors up and overlooking Lake Eola?"  

Sorry, but those sound more like examples of acceptance and acquiescence, not disagreement or protest. Nothing approaching your stance on the Woolworth's and McCrorys block at any rate. If you insist that you were expressing support for saving the old buildings at Central and Rosalind, it was as I said before, lukewarm and tepid at best.

OTOH, I expressed strong and solid support for saving the even older and more historical buildings over on a corner of Eola Park that is not as centrally located in the "heart of downtown" where a new high rise development was sorely needed. 

Therefore, with that in mind, your original comment directed at me in which you stated: "I suppose in a city known for faux-facades, one shouldn’t expect everyone to rally behind actual historic facades like the streamline modern McCorys yet should expect those same people to champion buildings of no relevance. ".... lacks any basis in fact whatsoever.

Finally, this exchange has dragged the CSP thread far enough off-topic as it is.

If you'd like to continue the discussion, I suggest posting any response you may have in the old thread regarding the development over on that block.

[orange87]

I've always wondered why Daytona Beach's population has remained the same for almost 30 years, always right around 61,000. You'd think a place with global name recognition right on the coast with warm weather and low cost of living would make it a place a lot of people would want to move to. Is it the crime and poverty that keeps people away?

[prahaboheme]

24 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

"Silly"??? I provided a link to the page where it was discussed.

Here it is again in case for some reason you didn't look at it the first time:

Your most forceful comments on the issue were...

"Unfortunately, its been made clear through actions as well as intentions for land use that nothing is safe in the South Eola neighborhood.  Block by block the remnants of our past have been erased.  The reality is, all we can do is plan for thoughtful design to ensure that future development adds value to the existing urban environment.  This should include protection of Lake Eola from privatization."

"This architect has another project in Minneapolis with more of an art deco tower vibe.  I really wish Orlando's development had gone this route to fit in better with some of it's neighbors along Lake Eola."

"Instead of encroaching on public land, why doesn't the developer build a restaurant / cafe space a few floors up and overlooking Lake Eola?"  

Sorry, but those sound more like examples of acceptance and acquiescence, not disagreement or protest. Nothing approaching your stance on the Woolworth's and McCrorys block at any rate. If you insist that you were expressing support for saving the old buildings at Central and Rosalind, it was as I said before, lukewarm and tepid at best.

OTOH, I expressed strong and solid support for saving the even older and more historical buildings over on a corner of Eola Park that is not as centrally located in the "heart of downtown" where a new high rise development was sorely needed. 

Therefore, with that in mind, your original comment directed at me in which you stated: "I suppose in a city known for faux-facades, one shouldn’t expect everyone to rally behind actual historic facades like the streamline modern McCorys yet should expect those same people to champion buildings of no relevance. ".... lacks any basis in fact whatsoever.

Finally, this exchange has dragged the CSP thread far enough off-topic as it is.

If you'd like to continue the discussion, I suggest posting any response you may have in the old thread regarding the development over on that block.

 

Thanks for quoting my past post. It seems like you need to really dig deep to understand something simplistic in what was stated. 

I really must be missing something here.

Edited February 22, 2019 by prahaboheme

[JFW657]

11 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Thanks for quoting my past post. It seems like you need to really dig deep to understand something simplistic in what was stated. 

I really must be missing something here.

Yes, you most certainly are.

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Yes, you most certainly are.

We all write our own history.

[Camillo Sitte]

9 hours ago, DreS0803 said:

Is that the final product?

Yep, minus the glazing and the metal scrim over the parking decks of course.

Not sure why anyone is surprised that this is how it's going to look though.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Camillo Sitte

[JFW657]

36 minutes ago, Camillo Sitte said:

Yep, minus the glazing and the metal scrim over the parking decks of course.

Not sure why anyone is surprised that this is how it's going to look though.

The entire building looks different in the rendering than it's shaping up to look in real life. The glass looks much darker than it looks in the rendering and that precast stuff over the garage looks different too.

But I did call the scrim over the lower north end portion.

[codypet]

I think the building as whole looks a lot darker in real life than it does in the rendering.  I think that's what's throwing people off.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:34 PM, Camillo Sitte said:

Yep, minus the glazing and the metal scrim over the parking decks of course.

Not sure why anyone is surprised that this is how it's going to look though.

 

2 hours ago, codypet said:

I think the building as whole looks a lot darker in real life than it does in the rendering.  I think that's what's throwing people off.

 

OR

 

it's just ugly? 

 

I don't think anyone is surprised the renderings weren't all that to some and then they were everything to others.

 

 

[dcluley98]

Interesting to note the "Orlando City" logo superimposed on the metal screening of the rendering. I wonder if they are actually going to do something like that, or if it was just a fan of the team at BB putting it in there. 

[JFW657]

24 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Interesting to note the "Orlando City" logo superimposed on the metal screening of the rendering. I wonder if they are actually going to do something like that, or if it was just a fan of the team at BB putting it in there. 

I was wondering about that too.

Maybe they have some method of changing it to reflect different sports and seasons.

Like a Magic logo during basketball season and some kind of Christmas thing during the holidays, etc.

Kinda like they do with that tower in Miami where they light it in different team colors then put giant snowflakes on in December.

[jrs2]

On 2/22/2019 at 6:32 PM, orange87 said:

I've always wondered why Daytona Beach's population has remained the same for almost 30 years, always right around 61,000. You'd think a place with global name recognition right on the coast with warm weather and low cost of living would make it a place a lot of people would want to move to. Is it the crime and poverty that keeps people away?

my bad for bringing up the Streamline Hotel in this thread.  Repost your query in the Extended Area Developments thread and I'm sure Spencer1058 will have a more insightful response than I could provide.  But I'll try

[jrs2]

OMG, I just saw this on my monitor.  this photo I took stinks.  It was rushed, but...dang….

Edited March 1, 2019 by jrs2

[Urban25]

I wish they made this building more narrow rather than wide