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Construction to start soon on next downtown office tower 

Dallas-based Lincoln Property Co. — the developer of the rising SunTrust Plaza at Church Street Station — expects to break ground by the end of this year or January 2020 for its adjacent mixed-use project, called "T2 at Church St Station," Austin Stahley, Lincoln Property's Florida region director, told Orlando Business Journal. The tower is expected to be a similar size to its 28-story, $133 million sister at the northwest corner of Garland Avenue and South Street.

T2 at Church St Station.

what do you guys think?

Post from OBJ

Edited by DreS0803
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1 hour ago, DreS0803 said:

Construction to start soon on next downtown office tower 

Dallas-based Lincoln Property Co. — the developer of the rising SunTrust Plaza at Church Street Station — expects to break ground by the end of this year or January 2020 for its adjacent mixed-use project, called "T2 at Church St Station," Austin Stahley, Lincoln Property's Florida region director, told Orlando Business Journal. The tower is expected to be a similar size to its 28-story, $133 million sister at the northwest corner of Garland Avenue and South Street.

T2 at Church St Station.

what do you guys think?

Post from OBJ

I think its a small lot for a similar sized building, unless they are planning to tear down part of Church Street (which I fear will be proposed).

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5 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I think its a small lot for a similar sized building, unless they are planning to tear down part of Church Street (which I fear will be proposed).

Agreed. Considering the similar square footage  It’s either that or go vertical. I hope they choose vertical though.

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The OBJ article regarding T2 says "next" office tower.  I hope that is exclusive to "office" towers and not residential towers.  With all that are lined up, (Zoi, X-Orlanddo, etc.) I'd hate to think we'd have to wait until January to get something else out of the ground.  This also makes me wonder if they consider the Magic 10-story HQ a tower or not.

Knowing OBJ, it's just them throwing words out without much thought.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

The OBJ article regarding T2 says "next" office tower.  I hope that is exclusive to "office" towers and not residential towers.  With all that are lined up, (Zoi, X-Orlanddo, etc.) I'd hate to think we'd have to wait until January to get something else out of the ground.  This also makes me wonder if they consider the Magic 10-story HQ a tower or not.

Knowing OBJ, it's just them throwing words out without much thought.

 

 

True. If the timeline is correct it’ll actually be sooner than the last expected start date of mid 2020. I also remember LPC saying they were still deciding on whether to do another hotel or apartments. At first it was residential for sure but I guess things may be changing.

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47 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

The OBJ article regarding T2 says "next" office tower.  I hope that is exclusive to "office" towers and not residential towers.  With all that are lined up, (Zoi, X-Orlanddo, etc.) I'd hate to think we'd have to wait until January to get something else out of the ground.  This also makes me wonder if they consider the Magic 10-story HQ a tower or not.

Knowing OBJ, it's just them throwing words out without much thought.

 

 

You’re right about OBJ but Lincoln has mostly done office towers downtown (CSP also has a hotel and they built The Grande apartments but the rest have been offices, I think.)

As to prahaboheme’s point, besides the ballroom, do you know what else they might target on Church St? 

The rest is mostly landmarked east of I4 (except the Market and Exchange) but, as we know, despite an agreement that the City would save the Jaymont facades, Bulldozer Buddy just said “oops” and there they went. Since he has only marginal opposition for re-election (Sam Ings isn’t raising any money so far), we shouldn’t hold our collective breaths.

Edited by spenser1058

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The Ballroom site really isn't all that much smaller than the site they're currently building on...

csp1-2.png

...and keep in mind, the current building reduces down to ½ width on the top several floors. A second tower wouldn't necessarily need to do that, increasing the comparative total square footage, without needing a larger footprint. Plus, the 2nd tower, if it is all office space with no hotel, could match the square footage of office space in the 1st tower, with a smaller overall building.

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Originally LPC said T2 would start 18 months after the completion of T1.

We need T2 to move the SunRail platform so the sooner the better.

Wonder who’s looking to lease there?

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I highly doubt phase 2 will happen this fast given the "downtown shuffle" going on for commercial space. 

Phase 1 included the architect and the builder occupying part of the space and SunTrust(/BB&T now) occupying the rest and vacating a substantially larger space in the tallest building downtown, undergoing a merger, and likely downsizing. BOA is moving into new vacated space and that tower is being reno'd, but with no new tenants announced. The only commercial renovation I have heard of is CBRE and JLL renovating existing towers for WeWork and similar "workspace" companies, which seem like somewhat of a bubble or a ponzi, and no real long-term demand. 

It's the down-town shuffle, but no "real" commercial office space demand, IMHO, but I could be wrong. 

The real demand is for real retail to serve all the soon to be residents in CV and DT, if the developers hope. 

I expect no new office towers to happen, but probably too many residential towers, and hopefully the CV continues to grow to drive DownTown after the next bust. 

Ho-hum. 

Just back from vacation. I don't know nuthin. 

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10 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I highly doubt phase 2 will happen this fast given the "downtown shuffle" going on for commercial space. 

Phase 1 included the architect and the builder occupying part of the space and SunTrust(/BB&T now) occupying the rest and vacating a substantially larger space in the tallest building downtown, undergoing a merger, and likely downsizing. BOA is moving into new vacated space and that tower is being reno'd, but with no new tenants announced. The only commercial renovation I have heard of is CBRE and JLL renovating existing towers for WeWork and similar "workspace" companies, which seem like somewhat of a bubble or a ponzi, and no real long-term demand. 

It's the down-town shuffle, but no "real" commercial office space demand, IMHO, but I could be wrong. 

The real demand is for real retail to serve all the soon to be residents in CV and DT, if the developers hope. 

I expect no new office towers to happen, but probably too many residential towers, and hopefully the CV continues to grow to drive DownTown after the next bust. 

Ho-hum. 

Just back from vacation. I don't know nuthin. 

The only thing we do know is that, of all the downtown tower developers and the fevered dreams of OBJ’s imagination, Lincoln has been the one that delivers on its promises.

As you note, it could take several years, but just as I never expect VMC to happen, I believe Lincoln will eventually do what it says. From their arrival in the market in the ‘80’s, they’ve done what they said they would over the long term without a whole bunch of extraneous Tweeting.

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Lincoln is solid and smart. CNL or Foundry, as they are now known also. I don't see them making more new construction moves at this time in commercial downtown. Too much vacant space on the market. 

It's renovation market right now, from what I have seen, and ex-urb corporate sprawl, such as Lake Nona and Maitland. 

Edited by dcluley98
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I wouldn't listen to me much though. 

Audientis cave,

You see what you want and what happens, still happens.  

Edited by dcluley98

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Just now, dcluley98 said:

I wouldn't listen to me much though. 

Audientis cave,

you see what you want and what happens, still happens.  

The wild card we haven’t heard much about is county government. With OC still growing apace and with the Brick Bunker going blue for the first time in two decades, it seems like head count not only for public employees but also for private employees associated with the courts and such will expand. A lot of those folks are downtown.

Maybe you’re right and they’ll just absorb the space the banks are abandoning but it will be interesting to watch.

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I have not seen that municipal demand in the private construction sector. 

I only speak of what I see, and it is reno of the existing towers for commercial DT, residential/gf retail around CV/Livingston and resort/hotels for the new arms race with Universal3 and StarWars and the associated hospitality. 

There is also talk of Advent/OrlandoHealth new towers also, but that would be neither commercial, nor downtown, but growing up and down to SoDo and WinterPark areas. 

Next boom is Ivanhoe Village/Advent area for cheap land and more critical demand, and CV/Livingston, of course. These companies are 3 steps ahead of us, we are all just trying to read their moves. 

Edited by dcluley98

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6 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I have not seen that municipal demand in the private construction sector. 

I only speak of what I see, and it is reno of the existing towers for commercial DT, residential/gf retail around CV/Livingston and resort/hotels for the new arms race with Universal3 and StarWars and the associated hospitality. 

Yes, it’s too early for OC as Mayor Demings has taken a go-slow approach so far. Orlando, of course, just evolves into additional space it takes over at City Commons.

My thinking comes from the fact that the city and county have historically decided to build significant new structures every 30 years or so. We’re coming up on that threshold in the next few years.

The best time to build municipal structures is in a downturn- it’s cheaper and provides jobs. While theme park growth may save us from the next recession, it’s something to think about.

Edited by spenser1058
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Bank of America is moving into 300 South Orange (Highwoods) not Suntrust Center.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of BoA (390 N Orange) get leased out to UCF.   

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31 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Bank of America is moving into 300 South Orange (Highwoods) not Suntrust Center.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of BoA (390 N Orange) get leased out to UCF.   

Correct, SunTrust vacated both 300 South and 200 South, I believe, but probably was a tenant and did not own either.  I do not know if Piedmont is the  Landlord for both, but Piedmont is trying to improve 200 South for WeWork and other tenants, and making a courtyard and GF space available to entice lessees of the above vacant floors. 

It would be very helpful if someone knowledgable had a map of DT that showed developer properties and delineated Lincoln, Highwoods, Piedmont, Mill Creek/Modera,  Foundry/CNL, Ustler, FinFrock, etc.  

Edited by dcluley98

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11 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Correct, SunTrust vacated both 300 South and 200 South. I do not know if Piedmont is the  Landlord for both, but Piedmont is trying to improve 200 South for WeWork and other tenants, and making a courtyard and GF space available to entice lesees of of the above vacant floors. 

Suntrust wasn’t in 300 though?   300 is on the hard corner of South and Orange with Shutts, Ameriprise, Industrious, Rumberger, etc.

Edited by Jernigan

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My understanding was SunTrust was most of that block, 200 S Orange was the main building but they also had back office in adjacent buildings. I could be wrong, Jernigan. 

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10 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

My understanding was SunTrust was most of that block, 200 S Orange was the main building but they also had back office in adjacent buildings. I could be wrong, Jernigan. 

I think the confusion is that 200 S Orange is 2 buildings in itself.  The tower and then then front part itself referred to as a 2 story annex.  I used to think the Park building (250 S Orange: MetroPlan, JLL, Mimi Smith) was the annex until I got lost over there.

Also OBJ originally reported BOA moving into Suntrust and then updated their story quickly.   Credit them for being the only ones to scoop the move at the time.

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Thank you, you are very kind. 

I admit my overall confusion on the subject and shall defer to the experts until the facts are determined, without doubt. 

Until then, consider my declarations not exactly declarations, but conjecture and expository in nature. 

Edited by dcluley98

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If I'm not mistaken, it looks like the roof is now on...

Screenshot-Capture-2019-04-13-18-59-25-8

No more columns or forms or rebar sticking up.

Cap should be getting underway soon.

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Does anybody like the white grid work on this building. The randomness hurts my orderly brain.

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25 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Does anybody like the white grid work on this building. The randomness hurts my orderly brain.

I keep hoping it will be better when it’s done or this is going to look like some of the oddest ‘60’s architecture on lost ST:TOS planets.

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