Haywood Rd Redevelopment

[vistatiger]

I had rather go to Haywood Road to shop than Woodruff Rd any day of the week.

[Cityplanner]

Goodness, I don't like Haywood Mall; in the '80s I went to McAlister Square instead and in the 90s I went to the new Greenville Mall instead--but I'm certainly not rooting for it to fail.  The entire area does need to be upgraded.  At least it hasn't deteriorated that much; it's just not particularly attractive.  Aesthetic improvements (landscaping and more attractive architecture) would certainly help.  It's one of the first things that visitors to Greenville see, and it's likely a good chunk of the local tax base.  I hope that it improves, but not to the detriment of downtown or other areas. I'd like all parts of town to succeed.

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, Cityplanner said:

Goodness, I don't like Haywood Mall; in the '80s I went to McAlister Square instead and in the 90s I went to the new Greenville Mall instead--but I'm certainly not rooting for it to fail.  The entire area does need to be upgraded.  At least it hasn't deteriorated that much; it's just not particularly attractive.  Aesthetic improvements (landscaping and more attractive architecture) would certainly help.  It's one of the first things that visitors to Greenville see, and it's likely a good chunk of the local tax base.  I hope that it improves, but not to the detriment of downtown or other areas. I'd like all parts of town to succeed.

The city made a big push to makeover the entire area about 10-15 years ago.  That is what led to burying the power lines.  The plans looked solid but it did not get the buy in from Simon and the other landowners that was needed to pull it off.  Regardless, it did give the area a lift, but that momentum should have been built upon, instead it has dissipated. I tend to blame Simon but maybe the anchors were the problem.      

[Joey_Blackdogg]

40 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Goodness, I don't like Haywood Mall; in the '80s I went to McAlister Square instead and in the 90s I went to the new Greenville Mall instead--but I'm certainly not rooting for it to fail.  The entire area does need to be upgraded.  At least it hasn't deteriorated that much; it's just not particularly attractive.  Aesthetic improvements (landscaping and more attractive architecture) would certainly help.  It's one of the first things that visitors to Greenville see, and it's likely a good chunk of the local tax base.  I hope that it improves, but not to the detriment of downtown or other areas. I'd like all parts of town to succeed.

I'm not rooting for it to fail. I am positing an idealized vision of success that would pull me (and others like me) to that area, preferably in some mode of transport other than a car.  I'd challenge you that wanting all parts of town to succeed would make you stand opposed to Simon and the mall in general. Malls everywhere are dying. It's an antiquated method of commerce at this point. It being one of the first things that visitors to Greenville see makes me shudder. It's like Mall#3, Anytown, USA.

To play devil's advocate, it's currently much better than the dilapidated green fence hiding the Gateway site, though. And to @vicupstate's point, the buried powerlines are very nice and should be the status quo. I'd just prefer a different and more ecologically conscious site, that's all.

[vistatiger]

 

Disagree. I don't think malls everywhere are dying. There is still room  in every good sized city for a regional mall with upscale retailers and entertainment.

I think the management at Haywood is doing a poor job lately at replacing some of the retailers that have gone bankrupt during Covid. Hopefully they step up their game and it's going to improve soon. I was at Simon's West Town in Knoxville several weeks ago.  WT had the same anchor stores as Haywood minus Macy's and no Lego store like HM.  They do  have a Disney Store, Lucky, Eddie Bauer, H&M and Z Gallerie all of which I think Greenville could fully support now. They are replacing Sears with a large Dick Sporting Good's as anchor and adding a 2 level Buro Loco (Gatlinburg  mexican restaurant chain with a rooftop bar and mechanical donkey ride). If they can do all of this in Knoxville then why not Haywood? Similar sized malls in similar sized cities.  Simon needs to get busy replacing those smaller stores and redeveloping the empty Sears spot.

[cabelagent]

1 hour ago, Joey_Blackdogg said:

I'm not rooting for it to fail. I am positing an idealized vision of success that would pull me (and others like me) to that area, preferably in some mode of transport other than a car.  I'd challenge you that wanting all parts of town to succeed would make you stand opposed to Simon and the mall in general. Malls everywhere are dying. It's an antiquated method of commerce at this point. It being one of the first things that visitors to Greenville see makes me shudder. It's like Mall#3, Anytown, USA.

To play devil's advocate, it's currently much better than the dilapidated green fence hiding the Gateway site, though. And to @vicupstate's point, the buried powerlines are very nice and should be the status quo. I'd just prefer a different and more ecologically conscious site, that's all.

But I like the dilapidated green fence hiding the Gateway site...it's also falling down and looks hideous.  It should be a local landmark...receive a special historical plaque  

[Cityplanner]

Greenville used to have an Eddie Bauer, at Greenville Mall and then Haywood, and Greenville had a Disney Store in maybe 1990?  Odd that there's no H&M.  I thought that Z Gallerie had disappeared as the one in Charlotte closed, but looks like I was wrong.

My main gripe about Haywood is aesthetic: the mall is unattractive on the outside, and the surrounding area is 1985 all over again.  (At least it's not 1975 all over again.)  It could look nice like SouthPark does but it doesn't.

Maybe Greenville's downtown does so well because other commercial areas around town are so unattractive?  (Let me run for cover now.)

[Joey_Blackdogg]

You could be right @vistatiger, I tend to overproject my preferences when considering development. Maybe there is still a market here but it's just not my cup of tea.

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, vistatiger said:

 

Disagree. I don't think malls everywhere are dying. There is still room  in every good sized city for a regional mall with upscale retailers and entertainment.

I think the management at Haywood is doing a poor job lately at replacing some of the retailers that have gone bankrupt during Covid. Hopefully they step up their game and it's going to improve soon. I was at Simon's West Town in Knoxville several weeks ago.  WT had the same anchor stores as Haywood minus Macy's and no Lego store like HM.  They do  have a Disney Store, Lucky, Eddie Bauer, H&M and Z Gallerie all of which I think Greenville could fully support now. They are replacing Sears with a large Dick Sporting Good's as anchor and adding a 2 level Buro Loco (Gatlinburg  mexican restaurant chain with a rooftop bar and mechanical donkey ride). If they can do all of this in Knoxville then why not Haywood? Similar sized malls in similar sized cities.  Simon needs to get busy replacing those smaller stores and redeveloping the empty Sears spot.

I tend to agree, most cities still have at least one very viable mall and a lot of people still like malls. Haywood desperately needs an exterior upgrade, and honestly just about anything they did to it would improve it.  To Joey's point about ecological issues; I do think the parking needs to be redone. Another parking garage could eliminate a ton of asphalt and trees and medians could really soften and beautify the area. But, I think a mall is better environmentally than  a Greenridge (though not much). Greenridge has a bunch of island stores in a sea of asphalt instead of one big island surrounded by asphalt. Once people leave one island at Greenridge, they go to their car and drive to another island. At least in the mall a lot of people walk within the island.

[cabelagent]

Removed by author

Edited February 24, 2021 by cabelagent

[Cityplanner]

The only thing that gets me about Haywood is (other than it being unattractive on the outside and full of mid-tier stores):

1. In the 1950s, inexpensive car-dependent sprawl was built along large roads leading out from downtown.  Within 10-20 years, it started looking bad and commerce started moving elsewhere.

2. In the 1960s, inexpensive car-dependent sprawl was built along large roads leading out from downtown.  Within 10-20 years, it started looking bad and commerce started moving elsewhere.

3. In the 1970s, inexpensive car-dependent sprawl was built along large roads further out from downtown.  Within 10-20 years, it started looking bad and commerce started moving elsewhere.

4. In the 1980s, inexpensive car-dependent sprawl was built along large roads further out.  Within 10-20 years, it started looking bad and commerce started moving elsewhere.

5. In the 1990s, inexpensive car-dependent sprawl was built along large roads further out.  Within 10-20 years, it started looking bad and commerce started moving elsewhere.

Does anyone see a cycle here; perhaps a cycle that should be changed? 

[Cityplanner]

Please tell me that the rumor that I'm hearing that Burlington (Coat Factory), coming to the former Sears space, is false.

Please tell me that it's Von Maur or basically anything except Burlington.

[gman430]

25 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Please tell me that the rumor that I'm hearing that Burlington (Coat Factory), coming to the former Sears space, is false.

Please tell me that it's Von Maur or basically anything except Burlington.

The leasing plan updated March 11 shows the Sears space as “under redevelopment.” No mention of Burlington Coat Factory. However, with the half ass tenants that Haywood Mall has been landing over the past few years, it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true. They couldn’t even keep Michael Kors. Pathetic. 

Oh and there are currently ten empty spaces including the Sears one inside the mall. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by gman430

[vistatiger]

If you are waiting on Von Maur to come to Haywood you are going to be well ....waiting.  They have their entry at Haywood with Dry Goods. Probably close to 0 chance they open any full line department stores in current environment.

Burlington has needed a new space for sometime. I really thought they might move to Magnolia in the old Toys R Us space.  Michael's should move too (back to Verdae in the ex Stein Mart space). I think that old eyesore Welcome shopping center at corner of Haywood and Laurens is ripe to be redeveloped with the trail coming behind it.

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by vistatiger

[Cityplanner]

Wouldn't having Burlington as an anchor dissuade higher-end stores from locating at Haywood? 

[vistatiger]

1 hour ago, Cityplanner said:

Wouldn't having Burlington as an anchor dissuade higher-end stores from locating at Haywood? 

I don't know but  if I were one of the other department stores I would not want a discounter moving in.  Has Simon purchased the property? Last I saw was Sears owned that property. The redevelopment may be up to the  investment company that purchased the Sears assets out of bankruptcy and what they want to do with it.

I think malls are taking what they can get. I noticed even Phipps Plaza in Atlanta has some pretty common tenants like Claire's and  Moe's.  

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by vistatiger

[Cityplanner]

If Haywood can't get an upscale tenant or mix of tenants for the Sears space, it should just give up, call it a day, lock the doors and turn out the lights.  SouthPark seems to be doing fine.

[gman430]

Haywood Mall is depressing. Good stores keep closing and when they do they either sit empty or are getting replaced by one star local tenants nobody has ever heard of. It’s so bad here that the mall can’t even support Michael Kors or land H&M. The parking lot is full of trash and pot holes. The furniture inside is falling apart and hasn’t been replaced in years. The mall has not been renovated in over 15 years. And is anything EVER going to be done with the old Sears? Sad and pathetic. The city needs to buy the mall from useless Simon, tear it down and put a nice park on site like you see at Verdae.

[vistatiger]

12 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Haywood Mall is depressing. Good stores keep closing and when they do they either sit empty or are getting replaced by one star local tenants nobody has ever heard of. It’s so bad here that the mall can’t even support Michael Kors or land H&M. The parking lot is full of trash and pot holes. The furniture inside is falling apart and hasn’t been replaced in years. The mall has not been renovated in over 15 years. And is anything EVER going to be done with the old Sears? Sad and pathetic. The city needs to buy the mall from useless Simon, tear it down and put a nice park on site like you see at Verdae.

Mall was refreshed in 2016. 

https://graycor.com/projects/haywood-mall-redevelopment

[gman430]

4 minutes ago, vistatiger said:

Mall was refreshed in 2016. 

https://graycor.com/projects/haywood-mall-redevelopment

No full scale renovations have been done to Haywood Mall since 2005. I don’t count the restaurants they added a few years ago like the Cheesecake Factory as a renovation. 

[vicupstate]

Refresh:  Changed what didn't need changing and left alone what did. 

[vistatiger]

10 minutes ago, gman430 said:

No full scale renovations have been done to Haywood Mall since 2005. I don’t count the restaurants they added a few years ago like the Cheesecake Factory as a renovation. 

 

New Escalators, New Elevator, New seating  including  the food court. Painting and new carpet . 

Be patient. The Sears at Simon's West town  in Knoxville was vacant for several years.  A two level Dick's House of Sport's just replaced it.  Would love to see this at Haywood.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/money/2021/05/19/knoxville-dicks-sporting-goods-house-sport-interactive-retail-store-west-town-mall/7396389002/

[vicupstate]

City Council Workshop Agenda

I wonder where this land near the mall is and what they plan to do with it, if it goes through.  Inquiring minds want to know. 

[gman430]

54 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

City Council Workshop Agenda

I wonder where this land near the mall is and what they plan to do with it, if it goes through.  Inquiring minds want to know. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s that large mall overflow parking lot that never gets used along Mall Connector Road.

[btoy]

more likely right of way for the trail extension.