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Dominion Resources: New High-rise Building Planned for Downtown

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3 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

This Doesn’t make sense to me. If that were the case, Richmond would be losing CoStar regardless. Construction in Richmond wouldn’t start tomorrow, 6-months from now, maybe up to a year at best, regardless of the Navy Hill outcome. 

If Dominion were smart, they would have been negotiating this option as a backup in case Navy Hill wasn’t passed, especially considering they’d sign-up a long-term tenant to facilitate payment for demo constructing their second tower.

If CoStar plans to move so quickly, they’ll have a helluva time having to rehire a lot of the 1,000 people already here, who just moved here mere years ago. I could see them moving to a Henrico or nearby county, but a move that displaced employees again, who are just settling in, seems like a poor business practice. 

CoStar has offices all over the country now (including Norfolk) and Richmond is not exactly the quickest when it comes to new developments.  CoStar clearly does not want to be their own landlord and Dominion may not be interested in leasing to another tenant (they may even be restricted from such given the regulated nature of their business).  The county is certainly an option but that goes completely against their reasoning of moving into a live/work city.  Hiring the next 2k can occur elsewhere while retaining the current 1k (actually reading back they may only have a few hundred now, including from closure in Atlanta).  CoStar also stated they wanted to use the arena for conferences and events and moved here when such a venue was an option.  Suddenly not having a facility that we once did is not exactly encouraging to business.

“I want to stress that the proposed arena is one of the most important reasons Navy Hill works well for CoStar Group,” Florance said. “We bring employees from all over the world to Richmond for meetings, and the arena, combined with the new potential hotel and the convention center, is an ideal solution.”

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36 minutes ago, Icetera said:

One of the big complaints, which was even stated by the Marriott owners (in relation to the required 10 year renovation per Marriott International), was that they needed more hotels connected to the Convention Center in order to bring in larger shows that they are currently missing.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2019/10/18/downtown-marriott-begins-multimillion-dollar-renovation/
 

“We need another hotel of our size, which is what that Hyatt and the Navy Hill project are proposing,” she said. “There’s just not enough supply of large hotels that are in close proximity of the convention center for them to win those large pieces of business.

“Yes, it’s going to be competition, but it’s competition I welcome, because then we can pursue bigger pieces of business and compete with cities like Baltimore and Atlanta that we’re losing business to because we don’t have enough room nights.”

As far as Dominion and Costar sharing a lot, that would certainly be nice, especially if it combined one tower at 700 Canal.  Unfortunately, CoStar can likely quickly get a new tower in one of the NC cities that is outpacing Richmond.  Probably a much better move for them.

People are now realizing what they have done.

 

4 minutes ago, Icetera said:

CoStar has offices all over the country now (including Norfolk) and Richmond is not exactly the quickest when it comes to new developments.  CoStar clearly does not want to be their own landlord and Dominion may not be interested in leasing to another tenant (they may even be restricted from such given the regulated nature of their business).  The county is certainly an option but that goes completely against their reasoning of moving into a live/work city.  Hiring the next 2k can occur elsewhere while retaining the current 1k (actually reading back they may only have a few hundred now, including from closure in Atlanta).  CoStar also stated they wanted to use the arena for conferences and events and moved here when such a venue was an option.  Suddenly not having a facility that we once did is not exactly encouraging to business.

“I want to stress that the proposed arena is one of the most important reasons Navy Hill works well for CoStar Group,” Florance said. “We bring employees from all over the world to Richmond for meetings, and the arena, combined with the new potential hotel and the convention center, is an ideal solution.”

People are now realizing what they have done.

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1 hour ago, Icetera said:

“I want to stress that the proposed arena is one of the most important reasons Navy Hill works well for CoStar Group,” Florance said. “We bring employees from all over the world to Richmond for meetings, and the arena, combined with the new potential hotel and the convention center, is an ideal solution.”

This is a political statement thinking it would move the needle towards an arena. This was not a factor in them relocating here initially - CoStar would've picked a city that already had all three, if that were the case. The convention center alone, at 700,000+ SF, should provide more than enough space for CoStar meetings. Note they don't say how many a year or how many people. I guess Main Street Station is too small for any of their meetings? Barely two years into a move, they would not move again after saying this:

CoStar relocating to Richmond in 2018: “The best part of it was, at the end of the three days they were here, they all thought that they were still under consideration and they may be invited to come to Richmond,” Ruggles said. “After the three days, I told them that they were all welcome to come to Richmond, and the place erupted. Everybody was clapping, people were crying; it was an amazing sight to see...." Ruggles said she was surprised by the level of interest from employees wanting to relocate, primarily from offices in D.C., Atlanta, San Diego and Columbia, Maryland. “I had no idea how many people would be interested,” Ruggles said. “That was one of my concerns going into the whole process of setting up a new center in a new city: how many people will want to go to X city.” AvePoint saw a similar level of enthusiasm when it announced last year it would open a local office, said COO and general counsel Brian Brown. AvePoint opened that office, on the ninth floor of Riverfront Plaza, several weeks ago. “We estimated that when we would be transferring people down here that we might not get a ton of people, because Richmond is very different from New York,” Brown said. “That’s proved absolutely not to be the case.” CoStar’s Ruggles said it has been interesting to see where employees have chosen to live in Richmond. Of the 120 employees who made the company’s initial move, she said the majority chose places such as Deco at CNB and other apartment communities in Tobacco Row and Manchester. Only two employees chose to live in Short Pump, said Ruggles, who herself just closed on a house in the West End.

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Once again, they do not have to leave, but they do not have to invest here further either. I hope your optimism pans out but I also recall being excited about another HQ in that building who's potential went elsewhere.

Edited by Icetera

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Companies never have to stay anywhere. Communities are always under threat of corporations leaving. Look at "Norfolk" Southern leaving Norfolk for Atlanta. The name of the company, for heaven's sake, doesn't mean anything anymore. Norfolk admin was resigned to their relocation because NS got all these crazy tax breaks, free buildings, and GA State incentives to relocate. The State of Virginia tried to stop the bleeding by providing temporary tax breaks to keep employees in Virginia a little while longer and even still, NS is breaking the promise to move everyone early. Vdogg, is this an accurate statement? 

This threat will continue indefinitely until communities start standing up to corporate threats of moving and stop giving away unnecessary tax breaks. Every community in America is in a race to the bottom of giving away land, taxes, and other assets - all in the name of economic development. When communities stop competing against each other, all communities will start to benefit. 

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7 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

This threat will continue indefinitely until communities start standing up to corporate threats of moving and stop giving away unnecessary tax breaks. Every community in America is in a race to the bottom of giving away land, taxes, and other assets - all in the name of economic development. When communities stop competing against each other, all communities will start to benefit. 

Agreed on the ideology, but unfortunately that is all it is.  We can be the city to stand up but that does nothing to stop the other cities from taking advantage of that, especially with our special regionalism restrictions.  We would need a blanket restriction at a federal level, but then there is nothing stopping it at a global level.  We can also be the city to stand up and stop building arenas, ballparks, theaters and museums and let private business do it in a way that they can profit.  But unless all of our peer cities do the same, we will just end up with nothing and then watch as our city empties out to the cities that do.

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 So if were socialist then we would all benefit  ...S-L-O-W-L-Y  but surely. 

But we are not.

This so called "race" to "give away" is called an investment.  Investments can yield much larger dividends.  Those who look beyond the surface (i.e. *poo poo face* "oh the schools") and look at it for a long term perspective will see the benefits city investments in venues have done to neighborhoods throughout U.S. communities.  Great example is Washington DC:  Capital One Arena, DC Convention Center and Nationals Park have turned neighborhoods from dangerous dead zones to thriving neighborhoods.  Return of these investments have paid off plus much more.

Edited by Shakman
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33 minutes ago, Shakman said:

 So if were socialist then we would all benefit  ...S-L-O-W-L-Y  but surely. 

But we are not.

This so called "race" to "give away" is called an investment.  Investments can yield much larger dividends.  Those who look beyond the surface (i.e. *poo poo face* "oh my schools") and look at it for a long term perspective will see the benefits city investments in venues have done to neighborhoods throughout U.S. communities.  Great example is Washington DC:  Capital One Arena, DC Convention Center and Nationals Park have turned neighborhoods from dangerous dead zones to thriving neighborhoods.  Return of these investments have paid off plus much more.

This is a difference in philosophy.  Over time, the winners of the "investment competition" will experience more and more severely diluted 'benefits'  until "winning" communities really see nothing positive or even experience negative impacts. This trend ultimately has an end when communities have nothing left to discount or give away. I think there's alot of people getting politically active about it (nationally and locally) and awakening to this reality that communities should be more empowered in extracting real community benefits from developments involving public subsidies. 

Especially in Richmond. DC is getting so expensive that Richmond is reaping the benefits of relocating businesses and throngs of migrants. Richmond's experiencing a surge in population in part because of that and also getting subsumed into the northeast megalopolis. Greater Richmond Partnership states between 2010 and 2016: "Richmond’s growth was driven by people moving into the city from elsewhere, accounting for 67 percent of new residents (12,817 people), compared to natural population growth (births minus deaths), which accounted for 33 percent of the growth (6,211 people). A closer examination of the migration data reveals that 70 percent moved from somewhere else in the state or nation, while 30 percent of the new residents moved from international locations."

I don't see how this trend reverses, barring a severe economic collapse. With that knowledge,  Richmond could be leveraging its geography, location, workforce, and quality of life far better than it has been. I guess after 40 years of precipitous decline, we should expect there to be some kind of self-esteem problem and "Richmond's going to lose out" mentality. I just don't believe that is the case anymore.

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3 hours ago, vaceltic said:

This Doesn’t make sense to me. If that were the case, Richmond would be losing CoStar regardless. Construction in Richmond wouldn’t start tomorrow, 6-months from now, maybe up to a year at best, regardless of the Navy Hill outcome. 

If Dominion were smart, they would have been negotiating this option as a backup in case Navy Hill wasn’t passed, especially considering they’d sign-up a long-term tenant to facilitate payment for demo constructing their second tower.

If CoStar plans to move so quickly, they’ll have a helluva time having to rehire a lot of the 1,000 people already here, who just moved here mere years ago. I could see them moving to a Henrico or nearby county, but a move that displaced employees again, who are just settling in, seems like a poor business practice. 


1) It isn't just about the building. You can build a big building for 3k employees anywhere, but what makes the investment worthwhile is the potential of the surrounding community to attract and grow your workforce. It's about retention and amenities. That was the benefit of the NH project. Without it, what's attractive about making that kind of long-term commitment?
2) It isn't Dominion's job to keep CoStar or any other employer in the city. Hate them or not, it's true, they are among Richmond's biggest corporate cheerleaders. But while it might be nice for the two to go in on a tower together, that isn't really going to happen unless it makes business sense.  I hope they do, but again Dominion is Dominion and CoStar is CoStar.
3) Existing employees are important to any company, but CoStar can maintain those without needing to expand here, while slowly moving people away as most business do in similar situations or mergers/acquisitions. They have offices in other places like Charlotte, which they could target for expansion or simply drop their innovation center there and invite people to move. Hello, they did the same thing when they moved positions to Richmond from DC!

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Rewards of investments go way beyond than just collecting taxes.  We all know that investments take risks.  When you go to work you take a risk of not being killed to and from.  The reward is you get payed for showing up and working that day.  However if Richmond wants more, it needs take risk and to invest more attracting businesses.  Businesses bring in much more tax revenue than residential property taxes hence why the City needs to be more business friendly.   Again this will equate to much more funds for schools and infrastructure.  The DC area is still bringing in businesses regardless of cost of living.  In the last ten years, Northrop Grumman, Nestle (US Division), Hilton International, Bechtel to name a few have move their HQ's the the DMV.  Even Amazon is bringing thousands of jobs to NOVA.    

Since this is going off-topic from this thread.  I will not say anymore here.

Edited by Shakman
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20 hours ago, Brent114 said:

The Marriott can serve as the convention hotel.  It is undergoing a massive renovation at the time. 

It's spreading. The RSS - "Richmond Settling Syndrome"

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10 minutes ago, Henrico Weather said:

Richmond has actually had a self esteem and self loathing problem for more like 155 years. The mindset is self defeating and self perpetuating. Defeatism on this magnitude is a cycle that is nearly impossible to break. It generally takes some sort of significant external catalyst to come in and break that cycle. Navy Hill could have been that catalyst. 

Instead, we have locked in that sentiment for the foreseeable future.

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Y’all need to get a grip.  For real.

Navy Hill was never going to materialize. The RFP should have been your first clue that it was going nowhere. 

Just  because you couldn’t manage your expectations doesn’t mean there has been any set back for Richmond.   This spring will bring more construction than Richmond has seen in decades.  A cheesy, empty and 1/2 built project was never going to move the needle.  
 

I’m sorry that y’all are disappointed but next time doesn’t get so excited over generic clip art and empty promises.

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1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

Y’all need to get a grip.  For real.

Navy Hill was never going to materialize. The RFP should have been your first clue that it was going nowhere. 

Just  because you couldn’t manage your expectations doesn’t mean there has been any set back for Richmond.   This spring will bring more construction than Richmond has seen in decades.  A cheesy, empty and 1/2 built project was never going to move the needle.  
 

I’m sorry that y’all are disappointed but next time doesn’t get so excited over generic clip art and empty promises.

I hope your right!

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Heard the old tower will be imploded on 30 May 2020 to make room for a brand new tower...or parking lot, depending on Dominion Energy’s mood. 

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2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Heard the old tower will be imploded on 30 May 2020 to make room for a brand new tower...or parking lot, depending on Dominion Energy’s mood. 

If all this disruption, spanning the GA’s session no less, is all for a parking lot I will go nuts.

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If I were a bookie, I'm laying 5:2 it will end up a parking lot and 100:1 that a new tower won't rise on that spot in the next three years.

Were it not for the massive disruptions caused by COVID-19, I might think the odds would be better. But I just don't see it.

Edited by I miss RVA
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1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

If I were a bookie, I'm laying 5:2 it will end up a parking lot and 1:100 that a new tower will rise on that spot in the next three years.

Were it not for the massive disruptions caused by COVID-19, I might think the odds would be better. But I just don't see it.

Yeah, I don't think people are going to stop buying electricity.  I'll take that 100:1 bet.

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43 minutes ago, jbjust said:

Yeah, I don't think people are going to stop buying electricity.  I'll take that 100:1 bet.

While I agree with the sentiment, there are a lot of commercial businesses cutting hours or closing, which would be a reduction in electricity compared to even increased residential consumption.  At least we already lack an arena to be missing out on things!

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6 hours ago, eandslee said:

Heard the old tower will be imploded on 30 May 2020 to make room for a brand new tower...or parking lot, depending on Dominion Energy’s mood. 

If we get a big hole in the skyline for a parking lot I'll stand outside Dominion HQ every day until shovels hit the ground

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Dominion doesn’t need a new building to keep supplying (profiting off of) electricity.
 

US stocks have lost 30% of their value in the last 2 weeks.  It’s hard to see Dominion starting a new headquarters building after having lost 1/3 of the company’s  value.

I’m sorry to see the old building go.  I’ll be utterly crestfallen if it’s demise results in a parking lot for the next ten years.

 

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6 hours ago, Icetera said:

While I agree with the sentiment, there are a lot of commercial businesses cutting hours or closing, which would be a reduction in electricity compared to even increased residential consumption.  At least we already lack an arena to be missing out on things!

Cutting and closing..which means less tax revenue for the city to collect to pay for...you know...big shiny things.

Ive also heard about the May 30 date, but with the president finally admitting what’s upon us, he mentioned distancing could last through the summer.

 

i doubt the demo date holds.

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10 hours ago, vaceltic said:

Cutting and closing..which means less tax revenue for the city to collect to pay for...you know...big shiny things.

Ive also heard about the May 30 date, but with the president finally admitting what’s upon us, he mentioned distancing could last through the summer.

Well,  since the meals tax increase was theoretically for the schools and they are closed I guess no real affect here!  Real estate taxes still have to be paid so perhaps we luck out by not being reliant on actual business taxes, unlike the State and Fed.

It is about time the reality set in.  Everything  aiming for end of April was always laughable.

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11 hours ago, vaceltic said:

Cutting and closing..which means less tax revenue for the city to collect to pay for...you know...big shiny things.

 

Somewhere, the NIMBYs are celebrating. "NO SHINY NEW THINGS FOR YOU!!!!"

(Guys, please know this is said very tongue-in-cheek and isn't meant to demean the severity of this pandemic.)

 

I hope you're right about doubting the demo date. 

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