mgreven

Grandville Castle Apartments

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35 minutes ago, scottythe1nonly said:

The site is lousy too.  However, there would have been ways to mitigate and tailor the site.  This monster doesn't do that.  

One example of what should be done in such a development would be Celadon New Town, which is adjacent to a massive retail strip and traffic congestion.  But the neighborhood looks and feels pretty good in comparison to most apartment complexes in the burbs.

There are great examples all over the country of "industrial" sites converted to residential multi family buildings.   I was in Charlotte, NC two weeks ago.  They're building massive apartment/condo/townhome complexes all over the city, mostly in "industrial" zones where land is available.  But they're building them with public transit proximity in mind, as well as lower level retail and adjacencies to restaurants and other 'amenities'.  

 

You can't compare Celadon to this area in Grandville. Celadon is adjacent to some of the highest household incomes in West Michigan, and the townhomes and homes in there are extremely expensive per sf.  Have you seen what the homes go for in there? It's literally outrageous.This area of Grandville/Wyoming is in one of the lowest household incomes. You also can't compare what's going on in Charlotte to what's going on or what can be done here. It's one of the fastest growing cities in North America and was already twice Grand Rapids' size when it started booming. It also has a much much higher household income and education attainment than we do here. 

And retail in a "town center" in this part of 28th st would have died, or ended up being a bunch of low class retailers mixed in with a lot of vacancies. 

I would agree with Joe that although I don't like the design, I certainly don't knock their audacity and bullishness on the area. They're betting big on optimism that the area will continue to grow (tremendously). I have a hard time finding fault with that. A lot of people in West Michigan don't like "show-offs" but as the area grows and needs to grow, it's going to need more show-offs, as annoying as they can be sometimes. :) Larger metro areas are just teeming with show-offs, better get used to them. 

Anyway moving on. I'm not going to change any minds, just curious. :)

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7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Wow, so it's some kind of jealousy/classism thing?  I kind of had a feeling that might be part of it. 

What???  Um,  no, not in the least.  I think you've misunderstood or are drawing your own conclusions.  People are mad that the city rushed this through and because it's a HORRIBLE design and location.   I'm not mad because he's a rich guy.  I aspire to be him someday, just more classy and considerate about what I build and where.  

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I still don't see why everyone hates on this.  Is it just because of the castle theme?  I don't it's worse than any other suburban apartment complexes.  What are you surrounded by there? Parking lots.  As a millennial I wouldn't really care what it looked like if I lived there.  I would care more about the apartment and amenities.  You're a five minute drive from downtown and I'm sure the top floors have a nice view of downtown.  If a town where almost every new downtown project is less than 12 stories and there are very few mid rises outside of downtown, I admire the scale of this project and I don't think it will fail.

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6 hours ago, jthrasher said:

What???  Um,  no, not in the least.  I think you've misunderstood or are drawing your own conclusions.  People are mad that the city rushed this through and because it's a HORRIBLE design and location.   I'm not mad because he's a rich guy.  I aspire to be him someday, just more classy and considerate about what I build and where.  

"This project was all about someone with  so much money he didn't know what to do with and he wanted to make sure everyone knew it.   "Look at me.  Everyone said I can't do it but I'll prove them wrong. I don't care if I fail and it sits empty for years.  I don't care about how it looks or what others will think about it."  

Those are your words thrasher. :)

People who live in the city of Grandville are mad at the city of Grandville? 

 

21 minutes ago, Floyd_Z said:

I still don't see why everyone hates on this.  Is it just because of the castle theme?  I don't it's worse than any other suburban apartment complexes.  What are you surrounded by there? Parking lots.  As a millennial I wouldn't really care what it looked like if I lived there.  I would care more about the apartment and amenities.  You're a five minute drive from downtown and I'm sure the top floors have a nice view of downtown.  If a town where almost every new downtown project is less than 12 stories and there are very few mid rises outside of downtown, I admire the scale of this project and I don't think it will fail.

I agree, I actually think the views from this castle are going to be incredible. And you're right, 5 minutes from downtown? That's about as good as it gets for commutes without paying downtown penalties. 

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I put in an official inquirery towards living there, but... that was over a year ago. Thought it’d be done around the July time frame. I made it a point to move out of my parents house on July 4th. Had to rub it in a little yuh know. Anyway, that time has long since past, and I’ve chooses a different place to live near the Grandville Mall. They boasted that they had 200+ people interested inquireries of people wanting to move there. I’m sure I was counted in that figure. But I’ve long past moved on. Would I be interested again in the future? Yes... But now that I’ve settled down in a nice apartment down the road, my next step is looking towards buying a house. They’ve missed the boat with me. The longer this sits in construction, the worse it’s going to get with people like me. If this misses another summer, this will turn into a failed development.

Edited by crinzema

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1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

"This project was all about someone with  so much money he didn't know what to do with and he wanted to make sure everyone knew it.   "Look at me.  Everyone said I can't do it but I'll prove them wrong. I don't care if I fail and it sits empty for years.  I don't care about how it looks or what others will think about it."  

Those are your words thrasher. :)

People who live in the city of Grandville are mad at the city of Grandville? 

I know they were my words, I just don’t get how “jealousy “ was  interpreted from that.   My feelings and the feelings of everyone I’ve spoken to about it have been anger and frustration that this project was ever approved.  The words were meant to portray the developers thought process or what it seems his thought process was, intended or not.

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8 hours ago, jthrasher said:

I know they were my words, I just don’t get how “jealousy “ was  interpreted from that.   My feelings and the feelings of everyone I’ve spoken to about it have been anger and frustration that this project was ever approved.  The words were meant to portray the developers thought process or what it seems his thought process was, intended or not.

 

You still haven't answered who is angry and frustrated. Actual residents of the city of Grandville? 

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1 minute ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

You still haven't answered who is angry and frustrated. Actual residents of the city of Grandville? 

Speaking as someone from Grandville whose immediate and extended family and friends still live there - there is definitely a level of frustration with the city leaders for allowing this project. The overall sentiment is that it's ugly, it's huge, it will likely fail, and if it doesn't fail, the traffic from it will be obscene in an already congested intersection. 

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21 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Speaking as someone from Grandville whose immediate and extended family and friends still live there - there is definitely a level of frustration with the city leaders for allowing this project. The overall sentiment is that it's ugly, it's huge, it will likely fail, and if it doesn't fail, the traffic from it will be obscene in an already congested intersection. 

Hooray! Actual Grandville voices. :) Legitimate concerns, I don't think it will fail though. There's that hotel tower on Muskegon Lake that I thought for sure would fail, and it did sit unfinished for a long time, but lo and behold, it's now open. Sometimes the figures to make a project work happen out of bankruptcy. 

Speaking of Grandville, there's a new project sign at the corner of Wilson and Chicago Drive I noticed yesterday. Looks like they're doing a mixed use project on that empty corner parcel. Clock Tower Properties? Can't find anything online yet. Looks fine, boxy brick building with a ... clocktower. 

 

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8 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Hooray! Actual Grandville voices. :) Legitimate concerns, I don't think it will fail though. There's that hotel tower on Muskegon Lake that I thought for sure would fail, and it did sit unfinished for a long time, but lo and behold, it's now open. Sometimes the figures to make a project work happen out of bankruptcy. 

 

Ultimately, I don't see it failing either. However, at this rate, I could see the developer going under and having someone else pick it up and finish it down the road. I'd hate to see it empty during that transition though. So I hope it doesn't fail for any period of time. As for looks, size, and traffic...Definitely legitimate concerns. I just wish the city would have consulted its residents on a project of this scale. 

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43 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Speaking as someone from Grandville whose immediate and extended family and friends still live there - there is definitely a level of frustration with the city leaders for allowing this project. The overall sentiment is that it's ugly, it's huge, it will likely fail, and if it doesn't fail, the traffic from it will be obscene in an already congested intersection. 

Well said

 

52 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

You still haven't answered who is angry and frustrated. Actual residents of the city of Grandville? 

I rest my case.  He said exactly what I said, just worded it differently. 

Edited by jthrasher
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While I'm not a fan of the design, the project offers a large amount of fairly affordable new construction apartments. The metro needs this and I hope it's a success. If it is a success, I hope we see more projects of similar scale, albeit, with a different design.

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Mr Lucas didn't do this secretly or behind closed doors. The folks in Grandville were offered their chance for comments.  But at the end of the day ,  he presented his project to the Planning Commission where it was approved. As long as he meets the zoning ordinances, building codes, rules and regulations, he can build what he desires. 

The man owns and manages many apartment complexes.  Some are stick built, some are precast concrete like this one.  He and the family know the rental business. 

The bottom line will be do renters feel they are getting their money's worth.  it has pretty good amenities. Covered parking. Storage units on site. Some parking units have attached storage - man cave .

 

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2 hours ago, GRLaker said:

The overall sentiment is that it's ugly, it's huge, it will likely fail, and if it doesn't fail, the traffic from it will be obscene in an already congested intersection. 

Remove the "it's ugly" part from the argument and this becomes a little more legitimate.  Attractiveness is a matter of personal opinion - one man's trash is another man's treasure - that sort of thing.  Yes, it's big and yes, it could contribute to traffic issues in that area.   Sensible concerns that the city of Grandville either did not see as impediments or mistakenly overlooked.  However, if we're going to get into aesthetics, I've spent a lot of time in the Grandville area and I would be hard-pressed to identify exactly what high architectural beauty standard is in danger of being diluted by the presence of this structure's castle-like features.  You can tilt at that windmill all day long but at this point I don't think it's going anywhere.  Might as well try and find a silver lining.

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On 1/16/2018 at 9:18 AM, GRDadof3 said:

You can't compare Celadon to this area in Grandville. Celadon is adjacent to some of the highest household incomes in West Michigan, and the townhomes and homes in there are extremely expensive per sf.  Have you seen what the homes go for in there? It's literally outrageous.This area of Grandville/Wyoming is in one of the lowest household incomes.

Yes, i can.  You can build affordable apartments and still have a walkable community.  I wasn't stating that they should build $300k townhomes on the site.  The problem with this development is that it's a giant high rise that will be an island sandwiched between a highway and a concrete factory.  Residents will have nothing to walk to.  And the scale of the building is more like a mid 20th century big city high rise tenement than it is a modern market rate apartment.  Why not build several smaller apartment buildings with some retail on the lower levels?   

Even RAMBLEWOOD is a better example of an apartment development than this.  

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Not to keep beating the horse but:

There were 200+ mobile homes on the site at one time (counting vacant pads from aerial photos). I don't remember traffic issues then.

The developer owns the lake. Canoeing? Kayaking? Paddle boarding? Paddle boating ? Not many apartment complexes can offer that.

The web site advertises walking and biking. A few laps around the complex  is a bit of distance.

Ramblewood is a good example of walk-able? That's just walking around the complex.

Edited by Raildude's dad
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7 hours ago, crinzema said:

That stretch of Wilson between 28th street and Lake Michigan needs to be two lanes pronto.. 

Well who would argue with that. :) Might as well go 4 or 5 lanes (I assume you mean) all the way to 3 Mile. 

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8 hours ago, jthrasher said:

Well said

 

I rest my case.  He said exactly what I said, just worded it differently. 

So you know Grandville residents who are "angry" about this project? 

I guarantee this went before planning commission, and the neighboring property owners were notified (gas station, collision repair shop, machine shop, motel 6 or 8 or whatever number that was :) ) I think even the "vision" of this project was all over WOODTV8 before it got approved. 

I can understand that the metro area is entire "community" and even on this site we all weigh in on different suburban project designs, often harshly. But at the end of the day, it's just hubris and feedback and hopefully some of the local municipalities, architects and commercial real estate companies pick up on it. Most likely not. But to get "angry?" If you're not a  Grandville  resident? That smacks of entitlement or socialism or some quasi-meddling small-town provincialism. People need to knock that sh*t off. :rofl:

 

 

35 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

Not to keep beating the horse but:

There were 200+ mobile homes on the site at one time (counting vacant pads from aerial photos). I don't remember traffic issues then.

The developer owns the lake. Canoeing? Kayaking? Paddling?

The web site advertises walking and biking. A few laps around the complex  is a bit of distance.

Ramblewood is a good example of walk-able? That's just walking around the complex.

Jeez, thank you RDD's. 

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16 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

So you know Grandville residents who are "angry" about this project? 

I guarantee this went before planning commission, and the neighboring property owners were notified (gas station, collision repair shop, machine shop, motel 6 or 8 or whatever number that was :) ) I think even the "vision" of this project was all over WOODTV8 before it got approved. 

I can understand that the metro area is entire "community" and even on this site we all weigh in on different suburban project designs, often harshly. But at the end of the day, it's just hubris and feedback and hopefully some of the local municipalities, architects and commercial real estate companies pick up on it. Most likely not. But to get "angry?" If you're not a  Grandville  resident? That smacks of entitlement or socialism or some quasi-meddling small-town provincialism. People need to knock that sh*t off. :rofl:

 

 

Jeez, thank you RDD's. 

What difference does it make if people who hate it live in Grandville or not?  It’s Grand Rapids, a 20-25min drive from one side of town to the other.  We ALL have to live with it.  And yes, I DO know Grandville residents who hate it.  The fact is that the vast majority of residents both Grandville and the entirety of GR don’t like it which was my point.   Entitlement or socialism?  lol, what?  I swear you’re just trolling us haters now.  Get over it.  Most people hate it. And now we’re stuck with it. 

Edited by jthrasher
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I don’t know what everybody thinks in Grandville, I don’t even know that many people in Grandville so I don’t know how accurate jthrasher’s comments are about everyone hating it.  But I had an interesting experience this past October in Spring Lake when I was attending a concert at the Seven Steps Music Hall that gives some credence to what he says.  While waiting for the concert to begin I was making small talk with the complete stranger sitting next to me.  Somewhere in the conversation he mentions that he either lives or works in Grandville, can’t remember which, maybe it was both; then he goes off on a completely unprovoked by me rant about the castle and mentions just about all the negative things that people have mentioned here.   Even though I really really don’t care for the castle, I swear, I didn’t bring it up, I don’t talk to people about this urban planet stuff in my real life, I was there with my wife just to enjoy a concert.  That wasn’t you was it jthrasher? 

Good concert though.  It was Lindsay Lou and the Flatbellys, a great singer and band.  It was part of the Mark Lavengood farewell tour.  Too bad he’s left the band.      
 

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3 hours ago, jthrasher said:

What difference does it make if people who hate it live in Grandville or not?  It’s Grand Rapids, a 20-25min drive from one side of town to the other.  We ALL have to live with it.  And yes, I DO know Grandville residents who hate it.  The fact is that the vast majority of residents both Grandville and the entirety of GR don’t like it which was my point.   Entitlement or socialism?  lol, what?  I swear you’re just trolling us haters now.  Get over it.  Most people hate it. And now we’re stuck with it. 

Yes, I am completely trolling the haters because it's funny. I hate the Alpine Target store. God it drives me crazy how much I hate it, and I now have to live with it. I also hate the Super Walmart on Alpine. In fact, I hate Alpine with a white hot firey passion. I can't even get over how much I hate it. And I'm only 20 minutes away and I have to live with it.

My life is in ruins. 

 

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58 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Yes, I am completely trolling the haters because it's funny. I hate the Alpine Target store. God it drives me crazy how much I hate it, and I now have to live with it. I also hate the Super Walmart on Alpine. In fact, I hate Alpine with a white hot firey passion. I can't even get over how much I hate it. And I'm only 20 minutes away and I have to live with it.

My life is in ruins. 

 

*rolls eyes*

4 hours ago, walker said:

I don’t know what everybody thinks in Grandville, I don’t even know that many people in Grandville so I don’t know how accurate jthrasher’s comments are about everyone hating it.  But I had an interesting experience this past October in Spring Lake when I was attending a concert at the Seven Steps Music Hall that gives some credence to what he says.  While waiting for the concert to begin I was making small talk with the complete stranger sitting next to me.  Somewhere in the conversation he mentions that he either lives or works in Grandville, can’t remember which, maybe it was both; then he goes off on a completely unprovoked by me rant about the castle and mentions just about all the negative things that people have mentioned here.   Even though I really really don’t care for the castle, I swear, I didn’t bring it up, I don’t talk to people about this urban planet stuff in my real life, I was there with my wife just to enjoy a concert.  That wasn’t you was it jthrasher? 

Good concert though.  It was Lindsay Lou and the Flatbellys, a great singer and band.  It was part of the Mark Lavengood farewell tour.  Too bad he’s left the band.      
 

Nope, it wasn’t me.  But thanks for giving  some credibility to my comments.   

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9 hours ago, jthrasher said:

*rolls eyes*

Nope, it wasn’t me.  But thanks for giving  some credibility to my comments.   

Seriously Alpine is the worst. It actually makes me angry when I have to drive on it. :P I'm embarrassed that we even have Alpine Avenue, and I know a ton of people who also hate Alpine.  I sincerely hope it all fails. 

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17 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

 

Ramblewood is a good example of walk-able? That's just walking around the complex.

Ramblewood looks like a suburban dreamscape compared to this disaster.  I'm not only talking about walking,  but the inhuman scale of such a large single grey concrete building.   


 

 

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