The State of Higher Education in Charlotte

[SydneyCarton]

Between Duke, UNC (the whole system), NC State, Wake Forest, Davidson, etc., North Carolina has a very impressive higher education system, which is probably a big driver in the state's economy.  It's pretty impressive, especially considering that all of these schools are in a relatively small area within a two hour drive of one another.

[videtur quam contuor]

A major improvement in my time has been the expansion of graduate degree programs. For far too long if one wanted a graduate degree at a public tertiary institution it had to be in the Greensboro to Raleigh corridor. The rest of the state was shut out. ECU had an M. D. school. There was a program at four year institutions for a diploma called Advanced Certificate, which was essentially half of a doctorate. After that one commuted to the final school for the last 30+ hours of the terminal degree, plus research, dissertation, statistics, etc. Now there are Ph. D. and other terminal degree programs in parts of the state not so served in the past. Charlotte is an important recipient of this change.

[DavieNative]

For all of you non college sports people out there. College athletic conference alignment is on the move again. Major institutions such as the University of Texas and the University of Oklahoma are headed to the SEC. This has caused the University of Cincinnati, University of Houston, The University of Central Florida,  and Bringham Young University to move to the Big XII.  In the turn the AAC (American Athletic Conference) is again actively looking to add members to its prestigious league.

What this potentially means for "Higher Education in Charlotte" is that UNC Charlotte or just "Charlotte" per recent branding may be joining an athletic league with significantly more important peer institutions than before. East Carolina University, The University of Memphis, and the University of South Florida to name a few. If this happens, athletics for the Charlotte 49ers will have a higher profile and facilities and prestige will be expanded at a much more rapid pace for the University. This change will benefit the city and the university in some massive ways. The future is bright for higher education in Charlotte. Go Niners!

[CLT2014]

2022 US News Rankings released today, Charlotte area universities and colleges:

National Universities:
Charlotte, #227 (also #112 top public universities)
Wingate, #299-391 range

National Liberal Arts:
Davidson, #13
Johnson C Smith, #168-222 range

Regional Colleges South:
Catawba College, #8
Queens, #15
Winthrop, #17
Belmont Abbey, #19
Livingstone, #71-93 range
 

Edited September 13, 2021 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

https://fallows.substack.com/p/the-college-rankings-racket

By James Fallows, a former editor and US News and World Report.

[Rufus]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

2022 US News Rankings released today, Charlotte area universities and colleges:

National Universities:
Charlotte, #227 (also #112 top public universities)
Wingate, #299-391 range

National Liberal Arts:
Davidson, #13
Johnson C Smith, #168-222 range

Regional Colleges South:
Catawba College, #8
Queens, #15
Winthrop, #17
Belmont Abbey, #19
Livingstone, #71-93 range
 

Just for some context: the previous administration at Charlotte was not keen on sharing information with USNWR for college rankings. Dubois was quoted many times as saying he didn't put much emphasis on them, and continued to use Charlotte as the "best hidden secret in Charlotte." With Dr. Gaber at the helm, she has said she would like to see our ranking improve based on the great work at the university.  She also is looking at raising our Carnegie classification to the highest available (Charlotte is currently R2). I'm hopeful that this year was a status-quo year considering the pandemic, and that next year will see some improvement based on our responsiveness to the ranking. 

[KJHburg]

New attendance figures out for UNC Charlotte

Erik Spanberg

 

Inbox: Fall enrollment reaches 30,448 at

@unccharlotte

, setting a record for the third consecutive year

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

New attendance figures out for UNC Charlotte

Erik Spanberg

 

Inbox: Fall enrollment reaches 30,448 at

@unccharlotte

, setting a record for the third consecutive year

I wish they'd emphasize quality over quantity.  You should hear some of the complaints from professors I know.  Some of these 'kids'  haven't even EVER stepped into a library before.  It's scary.

[Rufus]

12 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

I wish they'd emphasize quality over quantity.  You should hear some of the complaints from professors I know.  Some of these 'kids'  haven't even EVER stepped into a library before.  It's scary.

I would look at it this way -- enrollment was generally one of the only ways the university would get any attention from the State and the public. In the 90s and early 00s, you saw this explosive growth that hasn't let down at all, and I think a lot of that growth helped propel the university towards improved (still not great) funding and capital projects. I'll say that the university is changing its tune and becoming more and more about academics and research, it's just hard to do that and contend with the level of growth seen. That all being said, when I was at the university 2006-2010, it was extremely rigorous, and compared to some of my classes in grad school here in NYC, I would say the university could go toe to toe with many "esteemed" universities in the Northeast. I think it all comes down to resources. When the pool is so limited, the best way to gain more resources is to grow so that you need more to stay afloat (mixed metaphor but it makes sense). 

[Windsurfer]

6 hours ago, Rufus said:

I would look at it this way -- enrollment was generally one of the only ways the university would get any attention from the State and the public. In the 90s and early 00s, you saw this explosive growth that hasn't let down at all, and I think a lot of that growth helped propel the university towards improved (still not great) funding and capital projects. I'll say that the university is changing its tune and becoming more and more about academics and research, it's just hard to do that and contend with the level of growth seen. That all being said, when I was at the university 2006-2010, it was extremely rigorous, and compared to some of my classes in grad school here in NYC, I would say the university could go toe to toe with many "esteemed" universities in the Northeast. I think it all comes down to resources. When the pool is so limited, the best way to gain more resources is to grow so that you need more to stay afloat (mixed metaphor but it makes sense). 

I suspect you'll find it's changed a lot in the quick 10 years you graduated.  My wife teaches there.  When I met her in the early 2000's she was bubbling over with excitement. Her research was going well, other professors and she would get together for Happy Hour,  and students were so fun and ready to learn.  One of her classes even took it upon themselves to create a bumper sticker that had to do with a segment of her class.  There was a lot of chemistry.  Perhaps things changed during the recession. Perhaps things changed due to the increased pressure to develop STEM programs at the loss of humanities, but something has changed. 

Capital projects are impressive....on the surface.  All I see are big box buildings from my perspective. (I'm still bemoaning the loss of all that green canopy for STEM buildings.)

[Merthecat]

On 9/14/2021 at 11:58 AM, KJHburg said:

New attendance figures out for UNC Charlotte

Erik Spanberg

 

Inbox: Fall enrollment reaches 30,448 at

@unccharlotte

, setting a record for the third consecutive year

Finally found the full dataset for the UNC System.  UNC Charlotte saw 1% growth from last year, bringing its total to the aforementioned 30,448.  However, that wasn't enough for it to maintain its 2nd-place position in total enrollment, as UNC Chapel Hill saw the biggest growth in the system at 5.1% and soared past Charlotte to 31,641.  Other schools with strong growth included App State, NCA&T, and UNCSA.  ECU, NCCU, UNCA, UNCG, and WCU all lost students.  The system overall grew by 0.8% to 244,492.

Total Enrollment	Fall 2020 Census	Fall 2021 Census	Percent Change
ASU	20,023	20,641	3.1%
ECU	28,798	28,005	-2.8%
ECSU	2,002	2,054	2.6%
FSU	6,726	6,754	0.4%
NC A&T	12,753	13,322	4.5%
NCCU	8,078	7,953	-1.5%
NC State	36,042	36,831	2.2%
UNCA	3,363	3,233	-3.9%
UNC-CH	30,092	31,641	5.1%
UNCC	30,146	30,448	1.0%
UNCG	19,764	19,038	-3.7%
UNCP	8,262	8,319	0.7%
UNCW	17,915	18,031	0.6%
UNCSA	1,070	1,119	4.6%
WCU	12,243	11,877	-3.0%
WSSU	5,169	5,226	1.1%
UNC System	242,446	244,492	0.8%

[kermit]

^ if I were a betting man I would put money on A&T being the next ‘it’ university in NC (taking the mantle from UNCA)

Also interesting that Western saw a decline, despite it being virtually free due to the NC Promise program that makes tuition $500 per semester for in-state students (this is also available at ECSU and Pembroke which saw enrollment increases).

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by kermit

[Niner National]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:49 PM, Windsurfer said:

I wish they'd emphasize quality over quantity.  You should hear some of the complaints from professors I know.  Some of these 'kids'  haven't even EVER stepped into a library before.  It's scary.

Admission rate has declined a fair amount since I went to school there in 2005. Overall SAT/ACT scores and incoming freshman GPA have improved.

 

With today's technology do you even have to step into a library? I went to the library one time while in college. Anything I ever needed, even books, were available online. That was 16 years ago. Surely the technology is even more robust today.

[TGIBridays]

58 minutes ago, Niner National said:

With today's technology do you even have to step into a library? I went to the library one time while in college. Anything I ever needed, even books, were available online. That was 16 years ago. Surely the technology is even more robust today.

I was going to say this.  The only reason I ever went to the library in my college days was to have a quiet place to study.  I basically never looked at the books except for the one English/humanities class I had to take as an engineering student. 

[Windsurfer]

12 hours ago, TGIBridays said:

I was going to say this.  The only reason I ever went to the library in my college days was to have a quiet place to study.  I basically never looked at the books except for the one English/humanities class I had to take as an engineering student. 

You guys remind me of several engineering friends of mine.  I asked one once, "When is the last time you read a book?"

His response: " About 20 years ago".  (It had been just a weather manual at that)

Unbelievable. If you meet and talk with any CEO , lawyer, or owner of a well-run business, and ask him/her what the last book was that they read their face will light up.  You'll be lucky to shut them down after they tell you the wonderful things they just read.  

I can't begin to tell you the stuff I found just going randomly through shelves at a library.  You're missing out on a lot. It can be even better than the internet. Heaven forbid.

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Windsurfer
grammar

[TGIBridays]

6 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

You guys remind me of several engineering friends of mine.  I asked one once, "When is the last time you read a book?"

His response: " About 20 years ago".  (It had been just a weather manual at that)

Unbelievable. If you meet and talk with any CEO , lawyer, or owner of a well-run business, and ask him/her what the last book was that they read their face will light up.  You'll be lucky to shut them down after they tell you the wonderful things they just read.  

I can't begin to tell you the stuff I found just going randomly through shelves at a library.  You're missing out on a lot. It can be even better than the internet. Heaven forbid.

 

Haha These days most of the books I "read" are audiobooks, just because working fulltime, studying for the PE, and being a parent don't offer too much other free time.  As a kid I was a total book worm, but most of the physical books I read these days are board books with my kids.  I retain information slightly better reading from a physical book, but finding the time for that is just hard these days. Audiobooks (mostly through the library, CML has an amazing selection) allow me to multitask somewhat by exercising, commuting, or cleaning while also "reading" some.  All that said, I think libraries (especially public libraries) are incredibly important resources for communities.

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, TGIBridays said:

Haha These days most of the books I "read" are audiobooks, just because working fulltime, studying for the PE, and being a parent don't offer too much other free time.  As a kid I was a total book worm, but most of the physical books I read these days are board books with my kids.  I retain information slightly better reading from a physical book, but finding the time for that is just hard these days. Audiobooks (mostly through the library, CML has an amazing selection) allow me to multitask somewhat by exercising, commuting, or cleaning while also "reading" some.  All that said, I think libraries (especially public libraries) are incredibly important resources for communities.

I have a nine year old myself. She's able to look up books on her own and loves having that power.  She still gravitates to "graphic novels"....we used to call them comic books, but also reads at a college level. We didn't press her, just read aloud to her even when she couldn't understand us, or the book. All she realized was that we enjoyed reading print. Somehow that was conveyed.

You hit the nail on the head about libraries being essential.  This was on my mind last night after reading the above comments with regard to our uptown library plans. Should we still be planning improvements to a library that apparently just offers a roof for homeless folks? 

[JRCLT]

I suspect you'll find it's changed a lot in the quick 10 years you graduated.  My wife teaches there.  When I met her in the early 2000's she was bubbling over with excitement. Her research was going well, other professors and she would get together for Happy Hour,  and students were so fun and ready to learn.  One of her classes even took it upon themselves to create a bumper sticker that had to do with a segment of her class.  There was a lot of chemistry.  Perhaps things changed during the recession. Perhaps things changed due to the increased pressure to develop STEM programs at the loss of humanities, but something has changed. 
Capital projects are impressive....on the surface.  All I see are big box buildings from my perspective. (I'm still bemoaning the loss of all that green canopy for STEM buildings.)

I am a STEM student (Engineering) and I feel slightly offended by this last remark…lol, no but I agree…somewhat. I’d like it if there were more trees on campus. The sun beating down on you during this summer was making a walking trip on the crazy hills on campus a hell walk. I told one of my peers I wanted more trees and they told me there were enough… I said no… We need much more especially lining the sidewalks!! The STEM buildings are great IMO, but I would also like more canopy shading.

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, JeanClt said:

I am a STEM student (Engineering) and I feel slightly offended by this last remark…lol, no but I agree…somewhat. I’d like it if there were more trees on campus. The sun beating down on you during this summer was making a walking trip on the crazy hills on campus a hell walk. I told one of my peers I wanted more trees and they told me there were enough… I said no… We need much more especially lining the sidewalks!! The STEM buildings are great IMO, but I would also like more canopy shading.

I'm sure you've travelled the world, as most on this forum have.  One of the FEW things we can boast about, or at least relish, is the fact that we have some trees in this city.  Drive around LA or Southern Cal.  Visit Madrid., Sao Paulo or any other megacity.  What do we have they don't?  Trees.  Or, at least what's left.  Buildings are a dime a dozen, and the ones UNCC put out there look like something made of plastic to look like ancient Greece or something.  So. Corny.  I appreciate STEM, but so many in those fields can't see beyond their Legos.  I'm glad you appreciate some green.  Go with it.

[Rufus]

15 hours ago, JeanClt said:

 I’d like it if there were more trees on campus. The sun beating down on you during this summer was making a walking trip on the crazy hills on campus a hell walk. I told one of my peers I wanted more trees and they told me there were enough… I said no… We need much more especially lining the sidewalks!! The STEM buildings are great IMO, but I would also like more canopy shading.

I'd like to think that the trees by Woodward are finally getting large enough. When I was there in 2006-2010, Woodward was fairly new and the trees were still quite young. I'd chance to say that anything built after that still needs time to grow into the canopy. It also didn't help that Belk Quad was redone and has very little canopy (if any). I much rather preferred the quads by Robinson or Fretwell because they had more tree shade. And while Cone is aging and needs a good redesign, I think the trees along it and Atkins are pretty great. Is the shaded area between Burson and CHHS still there? That was always nice. As were the trees between the Pine, Oak, Maple buildings and Witherspoon. 

[KJHburg]

Small private college in Salisbury Catawaba College receives $200 MILLION gift.   One of only 11 gifts in the USA over $100 M to any college or university! 

Catawba College's $200 million surprise - Business North Carolina (businessnc.com)

[KJHburg]

From the Business NC morning email this:

""UNC System leaders and officials celebrated the organization’s 50th anniversary this week in Raleigh, marking an important historical moment in North Carolina history.
Former Gov. Bob Scott pressed the controversial idea of creating a 16-campus system. Despite hefty opposition among many educators and leaders, it proved popular with lawmakers who passed the legislation to create the consolidated system led by a president and a 32-member board in 1971. It now enrolls about 245,000 students, has annual revenue topping $10 billion and has 2,997 buildings with 89 million gross square feet.

Fifty years later, the system and Board of Governors remain the source of considerable debate. President Peter Hans noted this week that Bob Scott, other organizers and his predecessors would probably be proud of these key achievements related to college access, affordability and student success:

-- North Carolina ranks sixth-lowest in the U.S. for average tuition and fees at public universities.

-- It ranks eighth-best in percentage of students graduating within five years.

-- It ranks 11th-best in percentage of students.

No other state ranks in the top 10 in each of those three categories. Few if any other states have not raised in-state undergraduate tuition since 2017. Freshmen who enrolled this fall won't have to pay higher tuition for the next three years, even if the system starts raising rates again, because of the system's policy.

Hans and Randy Ramsey, the Beaufort boat-company president who chairs the Board of Governors, agree that there's much room for improvement. But five-year strategic benchmarks that were established nearly five years ago for each campus while Margaret Spellings was president have been largely surpassed, UNC officials said this week.

At age 50, the system's track record deserves to be a source of pride for North Carolinians.""

Proud graduate of 2 UNC system schools East Carolina and UNC Charlotte.   My older brother is a graduate of UNC Charlotte and UNC Chapel Hill.  My nephew is graduate of UNC Charlotte in post grad now.  My niece wants to go to App.  Other nieces want to go to UNC CH or WCU.  

[KJHburg]

Can you say App State Hickory?  Yes you will be able to say that soon.  and no need to climb up the mountain to get there on US 321. 

Appalachian State University buys former Corning Optical building for new Hickory campus - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

Appalachian State University has acquired a large building for a new campus in Hickory. Previously a key location for a well-known manufacturer, the building will now be used for educational purposes.  The college announced today it had acquired the former Corning Optical Communications building at 800 17th St. NW, just off U.S. Route 321. The five-story, 225,800-square-foot building will be home to the college's new Hickory campus. The building is larger than any on Appalachian State's Boone campus, said Chancellor Sheri Everts.  The college will renovate the building, but a timeline for the beginning of construction and delivery has not yet been finalized. It is also still determining which academic programs will be taught there.""

 

[rancenc]

Follow up article to @KJHburg's posting above.  Great news for Hickory and the surrounding area to have a big presence of a state university.  I will be curious to see what transpires at this site.  Also we could see  academic collaboration between ASU and Lenoir-Rhyne College.

https://today.appstate.edu/2021/11/19/hickory

[KJHburg]

App State Hickory is such good news for our region.   As this article says they have come down the mountain.

Watch Now: App State comes down the mountain: University announces new campus in Hickory | Local News | hickoryrecord.com

and got the building for $1 M for a 226,000 sq ft building value at close to $6 M