The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[CenterHill]

An interesting TEDx talk on solving traffic problems and how Stockholm succeeded in eliminating most of their rush-hour congestion:

 

Jonas Eliasson: How to solve traffic jams

 

I recall back during the AMP debate there was some discussion of how de-incentivizing the conventional one-person-one-car model is one of the only ways to get people to favor transit. This would be a great way to do just that and I think make a huge difference here as well.

 

I wish Nashville was progressive enough to even attempt something of this nature. Alas...

Another article on this subject, citing efforts other cities are making to reduce congestion/smog in urban centers.

http://m.fastcoexist.com/3040634/7-cities-that-are-starting-to-go-car-free?campaign_date=01162015&partner=newsletter&position=2

[Hey_Hey]

Hopefully the city can make a reasoned argument to the state that since no new interstate construction will happen here then that money can be shunted over to mass transit projects. I think it is only fair that Davidson get back around the same amount of money from the state that it contributes.

[rookzie]

Hopefully the city can make a reasoned argument to the state that since no new interstate construction will happen here then that money can be shunted over to mass transit projects. I think it is only fair that Davidson get back around the same amount of money from the state that it contributes.

 

One reference in that article is quite disturbing:

 

...(And a few car-loving cities, like Sydney, Australia, are going in the other direction, and taking away pedestrian space on some downtown streets so there's more room for cars)."

 

That makes for a rather "Twilight Zone", you think?  Maybe Nashv'l will follow suit, if it works for Sydney...

-==-

[Nathan_in_DC]

They need to widen 40 West from White Bridge at least to the Davidson county line to 4 lanes.

 

Theoretically, they are in the process of at least building truck lanes on all uphill grades from Nashville to Memphis. That should alleviate some of the problems.

 

[rant mode]

Really though, a single, extremely cheap method could be used to help traffic: start punishing bad driving with stiff fines. Driving in the left hand lane more than 5mph below the speed limit? $150 ticket. Driving a vehicle on the highway at all 15mph below the speed limit without proper slow moving vehicle signage? $250 ticket.  Not yielding to traffic in the left hand lane? Well, you get the jist of what I'm saying here.  If your vehicle can't keep within a reasonable range of the speed limit, conditions permitting, then it doesn't need to be on that road.  Do what you can to enact good driving regulations, and enforce them stringently and with fines that hurt, and you suddenly have better traffic flows and a more conscientious driving population.  It's ridiculous people get tickets all the time for going 10mph over, but a semi going 15mph under doesn't face any repercussions, even though he's potentially creating a more dangerous situation.

 

You can make all the lanes in the world, but as long as you have oblivious idiots doing a slow speed drag race on all lanes, traffic will still get backed up.  Start handing out tickets left and right for such things, and people start paying more attention to what's going on.  Now, the THP may not be up for this, because this would require them to be more observant than just looking for the fastest car in a group, but still...

[/rant mode]

[MidTenn1]

Historically most states have tended to build a roadway or freeway and then walk away from it to let it operate on its own. But now, TDOT and others are looking at the 'operation' of these roadways in a more hands-on manner. With the development of Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS) technologies and strategies, states are operating their roadways better by providing roadway information to drivers and commuters, addressing non-recurring events (crashes) more aggressively and thinking of the roads as a corridor in which several transportation modes and facilities can be coordinated to provide multiple commuting options managed in real time by a specific operations center.

 

Integrated Corridor Management (ICM) is being implemented in several cities around the country and will allow monitoring of an entire corridor along with real-time control over traffic signals, message signs, mass transit and and public safety resources to better respond to non-recurring and recurring events and help reduce delay and congestion. A proposal was made internally at TDOT a few years ago to develop such an ICM plan for I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro, but it never got off the ground. It would have coordinated US 41 traffic signal operations with I 24 needs and would have eventually included the use of Bus Rapid Transit in the HOV lanes. I have not heard of any progress toward implementing such a program, but I am encouraged that a new Division was formed within TDOT that has specific responsibilities for traffic operations.

 

The days of building more roads are winding down and the days of more efficient operation of the various corridors is just beginning.

[volsfanwill]

Theoretically, they are in the process of at least building truck lanes on all uphill grades from Nashville to Memphis. That should alleviate some of the problems.

 

[rant mode]

Really though, a single, extremely cheap method could be used to help traffic: start punishing bad driving with stiff fines. Driving in the left hand lane more than 5mph below the speed limit? $150 ticket. Driving a vehicle on the highway at all 15mph below the speed limit without proper slow moving vehicle signage? $250 ticket.  Not yielding to traffic in the left hand lane? Well, you get the jist of what I'm saying here.  If your vehicle can't keep within a reasonable range of the speed limit, conditions permitting, then it doesn't need to be on that road.  Do what you can to enact good driving regulations, and enforce them stringently and with fines that hurt, and you suddenly have better traffic flows and a more conscientious driving population.  It's ridiculous people get tickets all the time for going 10mph over, but a semi going 15mph under doesn't face any repercussions, even though he's potentially creating a more dangerous situation.

 

You can make all the lanes in the world, but as long as you have oblivious idiots doing a slow speed drag race on all lanes, traffic will still get backed up.  Start handing out tickets left and right for such things, and people start paying more attention to what's going on.  Now, the THP may not be up for this, because this would require them to be more observant than just looking for the fastest car in a group, but still...

[/rant mode]

i get what you are saying but you almost sound like the people that tailgate people in the left lane that are going 75-80 (me), passing the right lane but are still not going fast enough for you.

when ever that happens to me, i take longer to pass the right lane. im sure not going to slow myself down to get out of your way until I pass al right lane traffic that would slow me down

[37206dude]

Is there any corridor in Nashville where express buses could use the highway shoulder?

Maybe even airport to downtown...

[samsonh]

Can we talk again about what a disaster the intersection a KVB and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd avenues are. The timing on these lights needs to completely change. Every time I drive through there I am blown away by the inefficiency of these traffic lights.

[rookzie]

Is there any corridor in Nashville where express buses could use the highway shoulder?

Maybe even airport to downtown...

 

PHofKS would be most likely one to mentally process that, on his comprehensive grasp of the state network as a whole (on all the big four).  You probably already have seen or heard of the PACE buses running on the shoulders of the Stevenson Expressway (I-55) in Chicago, as part of the so-called "Bus On Shoulder Service" (BOSS) initiative to help serve transit deserts there.  Chicago, just as any other city, transit-"rich" or not, does have its deserts, where dense suburban communities are sandwiched miles between existing rapid- or commuter-rail.

 

First off, I could conceive if that along I-65 N & S, and along I-40 E and I-24 E, given their multi-lane breadth ─ just don't grasp how it could be managed on approach to the inner loop.  Surely worth looking at, though, as a "start-off", viable alternative to commuter-rail (as much as I and FrankNash like "sexy" rail).

-==-

[Vrtigo]

Can we talk again about what a disaster the intersection a KVB and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd avenues are. The timing on these lights needs to completely change. Every time I drive through there I am blown away by the inefficiency of these traffic lights.

 

I presume they are aware of this by now... Excluding today (holiday), there have been officers stationed at each KVB intersection between the bridge and the MCC to aid in directing traffic. It has made a world of difference when I choose to take this route into the city, especially with Hermitage Ave. feeding in and doubling the number of cars attempting to pass through.

 

Surely they are attempting to improve the signal timing here. I agree that it seems like there is currently no coordination whatsoever.

[nashmoney]

You can report traffic signal issues as well as many other issues (litter, graffiti, potholes) to Public Works online submission form.

 

I have submitted many request and they are very good at getting back with you within 48 hours with a response. The things that I have requested in the past for them to fix, were usually always taken care of withing a month or two

 

If many citizens complain about the traffic signals issue on KVB, maybe they will get it taken care of sooner.

 

https://www.nashville.gov/Public-Works/Forms/Request-Customer-Service.aspx

[samsonh]

I presume they are aware of this by now... Excluding today (holiday), there have been officers stationed at each KVB intersection between the bridge and the MCC to aid in directing traffic. It has made a world of difference when I choose to take this route into the city, especially with Hermitage Ave. feeding in and doubling the number of cars attempting to pass through.

 

Surely they are attempting to improve the signal timing here. I agree that it seems like there is currently no coordination whatsoever.

 

I went through on Friday around 6 PM. It was horrible. To me the solution seems pretty simple. Let the light at 1st for  traffic seeking to cross the bridge from KVB hold 30 seconds longer. It will empty out all the other streets, which is the problem!

[Nathan_in_DC]

i get what you are saying but you almost sound like the people that tailgate people in the left lane that are going 75-80 (me), passing the right lane but are still not going fast enough for you.

when ever that happens to me, i take longer to pass the right lane. im sure not going to slow myself down to get out of your way until I pass al right lane traffic that would slow me down

 

Nope, not one of those people. Passing on the right causes problems, just as hanging out in the left does.  And tailgating won't really get you anywhere.

 

I may occasionally flash my lights at someone who is puttering about in the left when no one is in the right, but I try to keep from tailgating or passing on the right.

[grilled_cheese]

Jim Tracy, Mr. Hypocrisy....

 

 

Tracy is an influential voice on legislation that affects the Tennessee roadways. He doesn’t think traffic cameras “should be regulated by the state.”

 

http://tnreport.com/2015/01/20/tn-legislators-opposed-red-light/

[nashmoney]

The Uber of Golf Carts - Seems like a pretty cool idea. I can see this only being limited to tourist areas, especially due to the speed limits and the fact that they will still have to sit in traffic like everyone else.

 

Maybe they can have dedicated lanes for the golfcarts...the new AMP??

 

http://joyridellc.com/

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/20/nashville-lowers-bar-small-business-incentive-program/22082013/

[Will]

No comment on Tracy, but traffic camera revenues could be a part of a sustainable, dedicated revenue source for mass transit if our elected leaders choose to move in that direction. I dislike the notion of a surveillance state as much as the next guy, but properly implemented, traffic cameras enforce existing laws more consistently, free law enforcement to focus on high-impact operations and deliver a source of public revenue that is completely optional for citizens (and out-of-state motorists, btw) to pay.

 

Jim Tracy, Mr. Hypocrisy....

 

 

http://tnreport.com/2015/01/20/tn-legislators-opposed-red-light/

[ajs]

http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2008/09/23/red-light-cameras-in-the-volunteer-state-unsafe-unconstitutional-and-unnecessary/

 

a huge fraction of the money collected goes out of state.

 

they don't improve safety by any statistically significant amount.

 

cities and companies doing this have been found to be adjusting yellow light times to "increase revenue" which causes more accidents.  If safety is the goal then adding 1 second to yellow light times is much more effective than these systems.

[FromParkAveToTN]

^{Are there any discussions of expanding or improving the inter-city loop? It is terrible.}

[Will]

http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2008/09/23/red-light-cameras-in-the-volunteer-state-unsafe-unconstitutional-and-unnecessary/

 

a huge fraction of the money collected goes out of state.

 

they don't improve safety by any statistically significant amount.

 

cities and companies doing this have been found to be adjusting yellow light times to "increase revenue" which causes more accidents.  If safety is the goal then adding 1 second to yellow light times is much more effective than these systems.

That was an interesting article. It is an imperfect system for sure, and the technology/methodology has certainly been abused in some cases. According to the article some municipalities seem to have entered into contracts that put them at a major disadvantage. It also seems likely that red-light cameras alone may not be the best method for reducing accidents at intersections. The safety benefits of speed cameras, however, were not addressed in the article.

 

If you think about this from a transit funding source perpsective, revenue would actually be the main goal from expanded speed/red light cameras. Other alternatives could be a higher gas or wheel/registration tax, but these would be effectively involuntary in nature because almost all of us depend on cars for daily life. Of course, it is almost always more palatable politically to use safety (and possibly more effective law enforcement) as the rationale for these cameras.

[Rockatansky]

 

they don't improve safety by any statistically significant amount.

 

 

I was under the impression that red light cameras increased the number of rear-end collisions, but decreased the number of t-bone collisions, thus increasing overall safety.

 

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05049/

[MLBrumby]

I have to tell you that we've had dozens of roundabouts built in Chattanooga in recent years... and I've always assumed they're safer (probably are). They have made traffic flow better on a lot of two-lane intersections. However, lately the roads seem to have gotten a lot more crowded (cheaper gas?), and with the crowds comes more full roundabouts.  In the last few weeks, I've seriously thought I was about to be hit by several drivers who appeared to be coming right into the roundabout without a yield.  

Edited January 21, 2015 by MLBrumby

[Nathan_in_DC]

Everything I've ever read about roundabouts has agreed that when properly designed and placed in appropriate locations, they're extremely safe. Much moreso than standard intersections, as they require lower speeds for traffic passing through and any collisions are, by the nature of the beast, never 90 degree impacts.

 

But, people have to get used to them. And people who have never experienced them often do not adapt well to change and just panic when they approach one for the first time (OMG WHAT DO I DO ARGH MUST STOP/MUST FLOOR IT/MUST DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING!!!!!!).

[MLBrumby]

Yes... it annoys me to no end when I am behind someone who thinks s/he always must stop before going into the roundabout.  Overall, they've worked pretty well... but their effectiveness erodes pretty quickly when it's more than two-lanes meeting two-lanes.  There are some that work two-lanes to four-lanes (Access Road and Lake Resort)... and they're generally more or less an interim solution for that reason.  

[Bezoar]

I bike to work pretty frequently and pass throught the music row roundabout, which was a little scary at first. . . But actually, I have not had any issues and can zip though it pretty easily. Beats waiting at a traffic light.

[Vrtigo]

I loathe traffic lights because of how much time they waste, so I've been thrilled at the addition of the occasional roundabout throughout the city.

 

The only thing that irritates me about a roundabout is the crazy lane directions and things they give. The KVB one is a fine example of doing this poorly--those that follow the lane stripes and signage will zip through without a care, but ignorance of those will leave you either waiting indefinitely or with a nice dent in your car from someone who flies through haphazardly.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Vrtigo