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What if I want to ride for the heck of it -- board at Riverfront, ride to Lebanon and back in the morning. Is that possible, and is it $10? As simple as the schedule is, it confuses me.

It doesn't look like it (unless ya wanna spend all day in Lebanon, heh). Your best bet is from Riverfront at 7:03am to Mt Juliet at 7:37, then from Mt Juliet at 7:50 to downtown at 8:20.

The reverse (Lebanon to downtown to Lebanon) is possible, though.

Edited by jice
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It doesn't look like it (unless ya wanna spend all day in Lebanon, heh). Your best bet is from Riverfront at 7:03am to Mt Juliet at 7:37, then from Mt Juliet at 7:50 to downtown at 8:20.

The reverse (Lebanon to downtown to Lebanon) is possible, though.

Ehh.. what could I possibly do in Mt. Juliet for 34 minutes?? Just kidding. I'll do it soon just for kicks. I'll park at work downtown, ride to Mt. Juliet, ride back to downtown, and walk to work! Just like they intended, sort of.

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Topic to discuss Nashville Music City Star Commuter Rail line and other proposals.

Lastest news on Nashville's passenger rail system can be found at the end of this thread.

I did the math from Mt Juliet with my car and for $150 or so for a monthly ticket it would only save me about $50 a month to take the train... and add about 1.5 hours to my day accounting for the bus and waiting for the train after work... Not worth it to me. Now if it saved me $150 I would do it!

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I think it is a mistake to model a mid-sized Southern city after these cities. Portland and Toronto's mistake have been todecide that the automobiles are not good and as a result they have set themselves up in an either or situation where the "or" is still winning out. In both cases, there is a lot of suburban growth because of the rather draconian rules on what can happen within their cities. There are other models that seek to provide alternatives but recognize the fact that everyone in the South has an automobile. Its a reality that can't be ignored but there are certainly ways to address it so there isn't continued out of control sprawl.

First off, Toronto and Portland respectively are very different cities. Secondly, Toronto and Portland both are not considered "mistakes" but on the contrary they are each individual and different cities that are outstanding and have been looked up to for many areas because of their success. They stand out in individual ways.

Have you even been to Toronto? Its a great city to model growth after. Their suburbs are fantastically laid out, better than any city I've been to in the United States. Their suburbs are designed around transit accessibility with commuter train stops in key locations throughout the GTA.

Most people in Toronto's GTA own an automobile, but the city also supports a functioning, urban, lively center city (and some fairly urban suburbs). It is nothing like Los Angeles.

Toronto is the best example of how to create a city and have suburbs at the same time with functional transit service. The only negative I've ever had coming away from there is that Toronto needs two new subway lines - the Eglinton corridor and to finish the Sheppard subway to Scarborough town centre.

Portland is a great model because its in Nashville's size range. Its slightly larger, but the city has really taken off on its urban amenities. This is partially because it has a much better transit system, but its many other factors.

The other two cities I just mentioned because everyone looks to San Francisco or New York or Chicago's center city as a way to build an urban center.

I'll be the FIRST to say that I wouldn't want to replicate Chicago's suburbs, they are horrific. Chicago suffers from the syndrome of having a magnificent world reknowned urban center and suburbs that are bland, average, and nothing special. San Francisco and New York I know less about, but I assume as much they are pretty bland (not the cities, the suburban outlay).

This is partially why I love Canadian cities. They don't have the same style of suburbia. Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto alike have more-transit oriented suburbs than our major cities. That and the slums are a different level entirely, but they are very diverse.

Its key to remember because diversity isn't what causes poverty. Its can be done right.

Remember, I want Nashville to replicate Toronto's suburbs. I've been there and know what its like. Toronto is the only multi-million metro I've been in that has a comfortable choice of any lifestyle. You have the 401 and its 18 lane of highway, you have a massive commuter rail system, you have suburbs (suburbs with awesome transit and commuter rail), you have an awesome, ethnically diverse, booming city that has a massive street car system and lots of urban features. Toronto has condo towers in suburban town centers around their transit services and they have them all over the city and downtown. Its a great setup.

When are we going to start building a few suburban office condos in Nashville? I think Mt. Juliet could use a few 20 story condos, so could Hendersonville. Creating a cute little town center around their transit stations would be neat. It would be so Toronto, as would continuing to expand the interstate system.

All of these things are key to Nashville's success going forward.

Nashville's STAR commuter rail is a START. It will help us build more dense suburbs that have transit to the city as an option. Mt. Juliet already has Providence going up. This is at least "better" suburban growth than what Nashville has had in the past.

I USED TO think STAR was a total failure and the totally wrong service to start with, now my opinions have changed. STAR gives the metropolitan area a chance to GROW with transit. STAR should be treated like creating a new highway corridor, just like 840. 840 was blank for many years, and it began construction and planning in the late 1980's early 1990's. Its just NOW becoming somewhat useful (albeit I do think its overkill), and just NOW is it being completed. The leg between Franklin and Dickson isn't complete, but they are getting close.

Personally I think 840 could have been planned much better (a key thing I would change would be for it to ring around much closer, 840 should have connected Mt. Juliet and Lavergne and Cool Springs, not Lebanon-Murfreesboro-Franklin.

BUT, I'm using it as a demonstration. 840 is an example that we'll spend $1.5 billion on a roadway system to nowhere, let growth happen around it; but so many fiscal conservatives whine, moan, and complain when we spruce up an existing rail line and add a few stations with trains for $40 million.

It may take 15-25 years before STAR becomes useful, because it has to have growth around it - downtown and suburban office growth (Mt. Juliet could add to the line by giving downtown residents reason to ride out in the morning for work, ironically). New Urban villages need to continue popping up around the stations (or near them) with transit service between the places people need to be and the stations they board at.

STAR is a tremendous opportunity for Nashville to GROW better rather than just throw something up after we've become like Atlanta.

You see some major changes happening in Nashville. I never thought 2 years ago what is happening today was possible. The commuter line was always a rumor, never reality. You got to remember, I read about the commuter line in the Tennessean in high school back in 1999 and in 2004 it still wasn't even being built. I just didn't think it'd exist.

I looked at the Plan of Nashville and thought "ha, this city will NEVER build anything in the city except another Cumberland" because Nashville had went for 10, 20, 30 years of building so little. The only residential that went up in downtown was the Cumberland throughout all my childhood and what I remember Nashvillle as.

The Plan of Nashville is out - its the best community based urban planning program in the southeast for a major metro over 1 million - and just a year or two after it really coming out you see all kinds of condo projects going on that are redeveloping blocks and blocks of neighborhoods.

Nashville is surprising me, I didn't have any faith in my home area anymore. But its proved me wrong.

On a final note, STAR service is less than one month into operation. Its too early to be overly critical, but right now I have two major criticisms. STAR is going to NEED a center city BRT system to start within the next year or two. STAR is going to NEED MTA service from surrounding neighborhoods in Donelson and Hermitage to bring people to the station. STAR is going to NEED Mt. Juliet to start a shuttle bus service with its new urbanist village they are creating to bring people to and from the transit center.

STAR won't be a failure anytime soon. But in 15-20 years if Nashville hasn't got a center city circulation system - and still just has these "shuttle services" to specific locations - and in 15-20 years if Mt. Juliet hasn't built anything beyond Providence and hasn't started a suburban shuttle service to its STAR stop and other areas, then yea it will be a failure. Well, it'll be a relative failure if they can't get more than 400 individual riders a day/800 round trips.

But I don't see that happening. It will take 5, 10, 15, 20+ years for things to slowly mature. This is a start!

345 riders a day (one way) is success to me. That's nearly 300 fewer cars in the downtown and Vanderbilt area alone.

This is success... Its a piece to a puzzle.

Edited by heckles
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I really like the idea of developments happening around the rail line(s). It's very difficult to get people out of their cars, and even if they live in surburban areas, they can commute downtown via rail, and do the 'burb dance to their hearts content after they get home...and not wear out their expensive cars just driving to work and back. You're right, heckles, this is a start. Hopefully, developers will also see it that way and begin to refine their directions with this future in mind. It makes such good sense.

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Dave, we just have to keep perspective. The idea of commuter rail isn't to transfer everyone off the roadway. Its to service key interests and offer choice and options.

Downtown and West End is choked by parking due to it being the urban center, having just 300 fewer cars a day in downtown and west end is major progress. That's 300 fewer parking spaces needed on a regular basis.

Remember, the GOAL of STAR was to get 1500 rides (round trip, 750 individual riders a day) a day. All they spent was $40 million. This is not a boondoggle like every conservative politician and follower has written in the editorial section of all our media outlets. This is far from a boondoggle, we are the only southeastern metro who has commuter rail right now except Miami.

Commuter rail is designed to get a few cars off the road, but more importantly its a low cost alternative to be able to revolutionize the style of communities we have.

We'll always have cookie cutter suburbs, we'll always have interstates being expanded.

Commuter rail is about allowing new urban villages and suburban town centers to develop that couldn't develop before (or couldn't develop efficiently), its about offering a service that takes cars out of the center city because our center city doesn't need more cars, it needs more people and transit.

This is about upgrading this city and metro area to a new playing field, and growing more responsibly.

Its about offering choices, taking cars out of the center city, and giving people options.

Its going to take years of building from here to ensure STAR succeeds, and not only the Lebanon line, but the lines to Hendersonville and Murfreesboro and Franklin. I consider those corridors more important than Mt. Juliet - Lebanon.

Just think if we had a line through Cool Springs, Brentwood, and Franklin. If they developed proper bus shuttle services in the suburbs and MTA also enhanced its routes in the coming years, you would have people with the ability to live downtown, commute by train to the office park at Cool Springs, then come back home again.

Home doesn't necessarily need to be right downtown either, that is why a center city circulator is SO important. Have a condo in West End, but with a 5-10 minute BRT ride to the commuter rail station and ride out to Cool Springs if you had a job there.

Its 100% possible in the future of Nashville.

This is a two way street. Its good for everyone.

Edited by heckles
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This is far from a boondoggle, we are the only southeastern metro who has commuter rail right now except Miami.

Wow, is that really true? I had no idea that Nashville was the only one aside from Miami...atlanta, charlotte and New Orleans really have no commuter rail?

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Wow, is that really true? I had no idea that Nashville was the only one aside from Miami...atlanta, charlotte and New Orleans really have no commuter rail?

There is actually a commuter rail line in Virginia that leads to DC, but if you don't count that then yes that is correct. Nashville should be commended for pulling off a CR line so fast and for so little money. Lets hope they continue to build upon what they have started.

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Wow, is that really true? I had no idea that Nashville was the only one aside from Miami...atlanta, charlotte and New Orleans really have no commuter rail?

he's talking about commuter rail, not light rail.

Dave, we just have to keep perspective. The idea of commuter rail isn't to transfer everyone off the roadway. Its to service key interests and offer choice and options.

Downtown and West End is choked by parking due to it being the urban center, having just 300 fewer cars a day in downtown and west end is major progress. That's 300 fewer parking spaces needed on a regular basis.

Remember, the GOAL of STAR was to get 1500 rides (round trip, 750 individual riders a day) a day. All they spent was $40 million. This is not a boondoggle like every conservative politician and follower has written in the editorial section of all our media outlets. This is far from a boondoggle, we are the only southeastern metro who has commuter rail right now except Miami.

Commuter rail is designed to get a few cars off the road, but more importantly its a low cost alternative to be able to revolutionize the style of communities we have.

We'll always have cookie cutter suburbs, we'll always have interstates being expanded.

Commuter rail is about allowing new urban villages and suburban town centers to develop that couldn't develop before (or couldn't develop efficiently), its about offering a service that takes cars out of the center city because our center city doesn't need more cars, it needs more people and transit.

This is about upgrading this city and metro area to a new playing field, and growing more responsibly.

Its about offering choices, taking cars out of the center city, and giving people options.

Its going to take years of building from here to ensure STAR succeeds, and not only the Lebanon line, but the lines to Hendersonville and Murfreesboro and Franklin. I consider those corridors more important than Mt. Juliet - Lebanon.

Just think if we had a line through Cool Springs, Brentwood, and Franklin. If they developed proper bus shuttle services in the suburbs and MTA also enhanced its routes in the coming years, you would have people with the ability to live downtown, commute by train to the office park at Cool Springs, then come back home again.

Home doesn't necessarily need to be right downtown either, that is why a center city circulator is SO important. Have a condo in West End, but with a 5-10 minute BRT ride to the commuter rail station and ride out to Cool Springs if you had a job there.

Its 100% possible in the future of Nashville.

This is a two way street. Its good for everyone.

do you think that with 345 riders that it really took off 300 cars off the road? were these people using buses or other ways before? i mean you could be right, i was just wondering where you got your numbers from. i'm all for the commuter rail by the way. i think it'll work wonders in the long run.

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I think it took over 300 cars out of downtown and vandy. Most everyone who uses STAR is not an MTA user, but a suburbanite or in an area not serviced by MTA (walkable distance) within Davidson County. I took a drive around the stations within the past week and the amount of cars there suggest the number is over 300.

Edited by heckles
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I think it took over 300 cars out of downtown and vandy. Most everyone who uses STAR is not an MTA user, but a suburbanite or in an area not serviced by MTA (walkable distance) within Davidson County. I took a drive around the stations within the past week and the amount of cars there suggest the number is over 300.

i can't wait until the other lines open.

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to answer the 300 cars question...yes. Nashville highway traffic consist of 10.5 humans per 10 automobiles. that is a fact.

I couldn't agree more that the Star is very important and can not be judged so soon, and I hate to bring down the spirit of this topic but I must.

I rode the bus today, and things are dismal. First off, they just cut service along my particular line(along with many others) and it is tough. What was a simple transfer with a short wait, has become a one hour "when the heck is this bus coming" sort of fiasco. On a typical bus which seat about 40, there was approximately 70 people including 2 wheelchairs. People were smelling each others armpits and, I'm serious, someone in a wheel chair was actually denied boarding because the bus was so overcrowded. It sadly is making me reconsider mass transit! Also with the impending MTA strike, many people were discussing their options(or lack there of) on monday when service might very well stop. Don't start me on the budget of this state. I just wanted to let you guys know that if an MTA strike happens, it will not just affect the commute times of people, but whether there will be a commute at all. Trust me, these people want to work!

Ironically on of the few services that will opperate in case of a strike is the Music City Star circulator. That will be the only thing besides the state employee shuttle.

Soooo....80,000 customers can be left in the cold, but the 350 suburbanities of the STAR won't have to worry!

Once again, I completely support the STAR, I just think our states transit funding needs some "retooling"!!!

Edited by nashvillwill
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Transit funding is a nationwide problem, but Tennessee needs more $$$ from the state level for certain. State government could do a lot to help out the state's transit services by dedicating a portion of federal funding and gas taxes or whatever revenue they see fit to help the dire circumstances of our bus systems.

One of the reasons I'm fully advocating BRT these days is because it would not be expensive to run and maintain, therefore helping transit in a holistic sense instead of focusing monies all into one light rail line.

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I'm less interested in the fact that the Tennessean reported this than the fact that someone had the nerve to call the Tennessean and complain enough to spark interest in writing this.

I also think the person who wrote this needs a reality check. Homes near the trains will increase in value because of proximity to transit. Provided they are somewhat near a station that is.

If they aren't near a station, I fail to see how it will decrease property values that much.

I can't believe the Tennessean would write this article, but I don't know if that makes the paper a bad one.

Edited by heckles
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I just now sat down to read the Tennessean and ran across this article. This thing made me laugh, how ridiculous is this? You move next to train tracks and then complain when a train passes by. I moved on a street that happens to be the main corridor to a rock quary, should I call the Tennessean and tell them I feel like a prisoner in my own home with all of the loud dump trucks passing by? My dog wont come out of the closet, my other dog howls, my child is scared to play in the back yard, my quality of life has been altered, my property value has decreased, we had a really peaceful hood until the train came, and this if this thing derails its coming right through my house!!!! I'm gonna go laugh myslef to sleep. These people are idiots!! BEWARE OF THE STARRRR!!

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While I agree that any person who bought a house adjacent to train tracks shouldn't be surprised when the train comes by (they probably got the house at a discount in the first place), transit officials should have had to foresight to install the full 4-arm devices from the beginning.

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