The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

I've never been to Charlotte but I got really excited watching this video.  I hope I get to see something like this in Nashville before I die.

Come on over about 6.5 hour drive and see for yourself. So much of our new apartments and for sale multifamily development is going up along the light rail and along the light rail extension that opens in 2017. I would hope that your proposed light rail lines would go near your universities since your have more college students in town that we do. It has been transformative for Charlotte and I am sure it will be for Nashville. 

[BnaBreaker]

29 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Come on over about 6.5 hour drive and see for yourself. So much of our new apartments and for sale multifamily development is going up along the light rail and along the light rail extension that opens in 2017. I would hope that your proposed light rail lines would go near your universities since your have more college students in town that we do. It has been transformative for Charlotte and I am sure it will be for Nashville. 

Conventional wisdom would indeed say to bring light rail lines through the most heavily trafficked areas, since that is where the people are, but not in Nashville.  We dont want it in our heavily trafficked areas because...ew poor people and eek less car lanes...or something. 

[smeagolsfree]

I was in Charlotte earlier in the year and noticed a lot of TOD along the Lynx line. Saw the same thing in Denver and Austin when there last year. Even when in NOLA in October there was a lot of new development on their new street car line. It does not take a genius to figure this out and many of our former Metro leaders were not visionary. It did start with Bredesen, but that was not transit oriented. We had to make downtown the destination first.

It is amazing that Nashville is getting the development we are getting without Mass Transit. That being said, if we did get a viable transit system started, the development on those lines would be off the charts.

 

I do not count the Music City Star just because that it  runs very infrequently. even with that happening, there are some TOD's happening in Lebanon, but much more is needed.

[CityHeart]

I heard this npr segment in the car today and thought it was a interesting bit about transit funding nationwide. 

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/23/503129325/voters-backed-transit-funds-will-congress-ok-trump-infrastructure-plan

Edited November 24, 2016 by CityHeart

[Canuck87]

For those in the Mt. Juliet area who are interested in transit-related issues, there's a community planning meeting this evening at the Mt. Juliet City Hall.

[volsfanwill]

NYC is intentionally causing g traffic jams to encourage bike and transit use

http://nypost.com/2016/12/02/new-york-citys-traffic-is-intentionally-horrible/

[rookzie]

2 hours ago, volsfanwill said:

NYC is intentionally causing g traffic jams to encourage bike and transit use

http://nypost.com/2016/12/02/new-york-citys-traffic-is-intentionally-horrible/

If anyone at all, NYC should know better than anyone else that that's a phat chance against infinity.  Hell, the Holland Tunnel and the 7th Ave, Manhattan, were at a crawl, when I first visited in 1965.  DC tried that during the late '70s and at least well into the '80s (if not longer) to prevent right on red, but the push-back blew that out like a pressure cooker.  It's been said over and over, even in these rooms, that rapid transit will never reduce traffic jams ─ like trying to scoop water out the Mississippi Valley.  It's just not happening.  The NYCMTA, PATH, and NJTransit would never have the capacity to handle it, even if it could be "displaced".  The only snowball's chance I could even barely conceive would be to allow only ride-sharing alternatives along all the tunnels and bridges, as if that'll ever happen.

[Nathan_in_DC]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 1:14 PM, rookzie said:

If anyone at all, NYC should know better than anyone else that that's a phat chance against infinity.  Hell, the Holland Tunnel and the 7th Ave, Manhattan, were at a crawl, when I first visited in 1965.  DC tried that during the late '70s and at least well into the '80s (if not longer) to prevent right on red, but the push-back blew that out like a pressure cooker.  It's been said over and over, even in these rooms, that rapid transit will never reduce traffic jams ─ like trying to scoop water out the Mississippi Valley.  It's just not happening.  The NYCMTA, PATH, and NJTransit would never have the capacity to handle it, even if it could be "displaced".  The only snowball's chance I could even barely conceive would be to allow only ride-sharing alternatives along all the tunnels and bridges, as if that'll ever happen.

The impact of transit on traffic is interesting. On one hand, installation of a new transit system will only have a marginal impact on actual traffic jam times, likely not really noticeable by your average commuter. The big benefit is that they give commuters an option other than driving and encourage more sustainable long-term development. But...removal of transit options once they have become ingrained and the city has grown around them can be disastrous, especially in the short term. Here in DC, just shutting down one or two lines for maintenance often results in huge traffic tie ups because of the extra few thousand people trying to drive in to work every day on roads that are already suffering from poor layout and planning and overuse.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nathan_in_DC

[Nathan_in_DC]

Does anyone know why the Brightwood Ave overpass over 440 is built so wide? I mean, it makes for a nice little green space, but it seems like it was a waste of resources to build an overpass capable of carrying a major 4 lane thoroughfare when it is just carrying a small residential neighborhood road. Were there plans at one point to widen Brightwood and turn it into a higher capacity avenue?

[SoundScan]

It's a land bridge--Nashville's first--designed to disguise the existence of I-440 for the surrounding neighborhood.

Source: http://www.nashvillepost.com/home/article/20471873/bridging-the-gap

[Nathan_in_DC]

Ah! I didn't realize they had actually built a prototype. I really wish they'd bring this downtown...

[rookzie]

It at one time actually had been a grassy parkway, but I don't recall whether or not that got removed, along with the parking spaces.  The bridge is coming of age now, and permeability/drainage of any corrosion membrane might have become an issue.  There used to be an old steel-and-concrete overpass there spanning the TC Railroad, back in the '60s.

[titanhog]

6 hours ago, SoundScan said:

It's a land bridge--Nashville's first--designed to disguise the existence of I-440 for the surrounding neighborhood.

Source: http://www.nashvillepost.com/home/article/20471873/bridging-the-gap

It kinda works.  Every time I pass over that bridge, I don't realize I just went over an interstate.

[claya91]

6 hours ago, SoundScan said:

It's a land bridge--Nashville's first--designed to disguise the existence of I-440 for the surrounding neighborhood.

Source: http://www.nashvillepost.com/home/article/20471873/bridging-the-gap

I'm not complaining, but something like that would be 10 times more useful for Belmont Blvd. 

[BnaBreaker]

Here's a great short video about Vancouver's transportation network.  It is now up to 50% of trips within the core being taken without a car.  What's interesting is that Vancouver, although it has rail transit, actually doesn't have an extremely extensive network of rail transit with 'only' three lines.  On the flip side though, it also has no freeways within it's core either.  So this is a good lesson for both sides of the current transit debate in Nashville.  It shows that a strategy centered around building freeways and endlessly widening existing roads is not a feasible strategy for easing traffic congestion within the core itself, but it also shows that rail transit does not necessarily need to be the main ingredient either.  What really matters is that the city itself is designed in such a way that it makes walking, biking, and accessing mass transit options easy and convenient.  As one local official in the video puts it, "the best transit plan is a great land use plan."

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by BnaBreaker

[Canuck87]

Thanks for sharing the video.

Every time I hear someone say that the hard bedrock of Middle Tennessee makes a building a rapid-transit train system cost-prohibitive, Vancouver's SkyTrain immediately comes to mind. There's no rule requiring that a metro system be built underground!

Edited December 7, 2016 by Canuck87

[rookzie]

22 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

Here's a great short video about Vancouver's transportation network.  It is now up to 50% of trips within the core being taken without a car.  What's interesting is that Vancouver, although it has rail transit, actually doesn't have an extremely extensive network of rail transit with 'only' three lines.  On the flip side though, it also has no freeways within it's core either.  So this is a good lesson for both sides of the current transit debate in Nashville.  It shows that a strategy centered around building freeways and endlessly widening existing roads is not a feasible strategy for easing traffic congestion within the core itself, but it also shows that rail transit does not necessarily need to be the main ingredient either.  What really matters is that the city itself is designed in such a way that it makes walking, biking, and accessing mass transit options easy and convenient.  As one local official in the video puts it, "the best transit plan is a great land use plan."

When I rode SkyTrain (TransLink) during July 2015, I saw on local TV there that residents there had just voted down a half-percent point increase in the local sales tax for funding expansion of the system, citing typical ills incurred with transit agencies, in this case the perception of tax-manipulation by referendum as a precedent for establishing tax policy in British Columbia.

The funding proposal targeted an updated comprehensive transportation plan, in much the manner as that which Middle Tennessee has recently undertaken, in garnering public response.  Their plan included a new rapid transit route (in addition to the three existing ones); three light-rail routes, and a sizable expansion of bus service, much of which is handled by trolley-coach, overhead powered electric articulated units.  The fact is, Vancouver has long become accustomed to an advanced level of urban transport, much of which has not been necessarily well-serving of the core, as far as "rapid" is concerned.  It's experiencing mobility growing pains, just as with any other progressive region ─ just on a larger scale than that of Mid-Tenn, and with a bigger base-point "bias" level of expectation.

Much more recently however, the mayors of Metro Vancouver have gone ahead and approved a $2B, ten-year plan for transit improvements, which will rely on local property tax increases and transit fare hikes in place of further provincial funding, corresponding to our state level.  With notable exceptions such as with Denver,  referendum-based buy-in more frequently cannot be relied upon as a sole or even effective basis of earmarking funding.

Edited December 8, 2016 by rookzie

[markhollin]

Governor Haslam: State has to "be a player" in Nashville areas major transit solution:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/12/09/haslam-tennessee-has-to-be-a-player-in-nashvilles.html


New census data shows that Nashville's commute issues aren't getting worse nearly to the extent that some people believe:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/12/09/heres-what-new-census-data-says-about-nashvilles.html

[Dale]

I'm from Charlotte, recently spent time in Nashville and can attest that congestion there is nothing, NOTHING like Charlotte. We just hopped and skipped everywhere we went.

[Nathan_in_DC]

13 hours ago, Dale said:

I'm from Charlotte, recently spent time in Nashville and can attest that congestion there is nothing, NOTHING like Charlotte. We just hopped and skipped everywhere we went.

Indeed. I live in DC and have similar observations when I'm home. Anyone who's driven into town across the 14th Street Bridge at 7:00am, or I-66 at ANY time (traffic jams on that freeway boggle my mind) will know what I'm talking about. The traffic in Nashville is only a major annoyance because of the lack of viable alternative modes. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Nathan_in_DC

[Pyramid Scheme]

3 hours ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

Indeed. I live in DC and have similar observations when I'm home. Anyone who's driven into town across the 14th Street Bridge at 7:00am, or I-66 at ANY time (traffic jams on that freeway boggle my mind) will know what I'm talking about. The traffic in Nashville is only a major annoyance because of the lack of viable alternative modes. 

If Nashville keeps growing like it is but doesn't get light rail or brt or something, it'll get like Charlotte or d.c. soon enough.

[Canuck87]

"Give me a break! Traffic in Charlotte and DC is a joke..." - Anonymous Beijing Resident

Edited December 11, 2016 by Canuck87

[Pyramid Scheme]

They can keep it.

[rookzie]

14 hours ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

Indeed. I live in DC and have similar observations when I'm home. Anyone who's driven into town across the 14th Street Bridge at 7:00am, or I-66 at ANY time (traffic jams on that freeway boggle my mind) will know what I'm talking about. The traffic in Nashville is only a major annoyance because of the lack of viable alternative modes. 

The 14th St. Bridge has never failed me to be jammed week-daily and on Sunday evenings, even when we used to do the original bridge on the old alignment during the late '50s and early '60s, and even when the then-new south span opened in 1962.  Of course, it's that much worse now over half a century later, for a metro area as such.

At least DC and now Charlotte have something of an option, in lieu of that traffic, and it's needless to say DC in especially would be a lot worse off without it ─ with or without the beltway and others that feed into it, like I-66, 95/295/395, and 270.  Charlotte has a lot of expansion to undertake on its Lynx light-rail, before it can become comprehensively "well-serving", despite its growing popularity among some local sectors.

The point here, is that, while DC has had its Metro for 40 years and is a much greater encompassed and dense region, at least Charlotte has not waited until now or even later to even formally develop its start-up, particularly with confluence of the primary routes I-85 and I-77, along with I-26.

[Dale]

Charlotte's roads cannot keep up with population growth. And the light rail, though perhaps a civic feather-in-the-cap, affords relief for a tiny percentage of the metro.

Also bear in mind that Charlotte is at least a decade ahead of Nashville on population maybe more. Just trying to inject a little perspective.