The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[MLBrumby]

Mayor Barry's new budget shows Gallatin Rd. as first corridor for LRT...  http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/26/mayor-barry-proposes-light-rail-gallatin-pike-kicks-off-public-vote-funding-transit/100394724/

[MLBrumby]

http://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/metro-government/article/20859457/mayor-taps-gallatin-pike-for-first-light-rail-project

The Gallatin corridor was selected from among five previously identified as needing high-capacity rail to accommodate growing numbers of commuters; Charlotte Pike, Murfreesboro Pike, Nolensville Pike and the Northwest Corridor to Clarksville are the others. 
 

Edited April 26, 2017 by MLBrumby

[nightranger36]

Living in Madison, I cant wait to see the route and station locations they decide on. Should be lots of arguing and studies done. I think this will take a long time if it gets voted in.

[bigeasy]

I am going to be biased and say they should work on the Nolensville Pike section first. Bigger need there and it has nothing to do with the fact that I would benefit from this 

[Flatrock]

Bummer! - was definitely hoping for Nolensville Pike corridor to be the beta. But alas - 'twas not meant to be. Not AT ALL surprised given the wealth, influence and development on the East Side - and I wish them well in their good fortune. Hopefully, it won't be too many decades for Charlotte Pk & Nolensville Pk to join in. Either way, I'll likely be too old or dead to benefit - but ya never know.... 

[nashvylle]

I think East Nashville will have the most support too

[japan]

12 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I think East Nashville will have the most support too

That's a good point.

[VSRJ]

And hopefully when others see the (assumed) success of that line, they'll wish they had shown support sooner.

[grilled_cheese]

Hell yeah, can't wait to be able to take LTR to go out drinking in Five Points, Preds games, and work.

[KJHburg]

Have been following Nashville's future light rail from Charlotte. (I will be in town next weekend though) Question: does your  light rail corridors parallel rail lines around these major streets or do they actually plan the lines in the streets' right of way. Charlotte's Lynx light rail  line the completed line follows railroad track south and the new north extension follows rail lines for most of the route then goes into the middle of the median.  How is this Gallatin Pike route planned does anyone know? 

Here is a video of Charlotte's new extension and what you will have to look forward to 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by KJHburg

[MLBrumby]

Pretty sure they've been talking about down the medians of all five routes, as CSX would not agree to allowing any ROW to their railroads in Middle Tennessee. One of the recent proposals however, was to fund a new rail yard to replace the massive Radnor Yards south of downtown; thus allowing new railroads to be built around the city and let Nashville use what they would no longer need.  But I don't think that idea got out of the gates.  

Someone on these boards (I think it was Rookzie) explained that CSX inherited the old L&N RR lines. So they've been owned and in continuous operation since they were laid over 150 years ago. Other states (I believe NC was one and GA too) actually owned a lot of those lines and thus were able to convert them over to LRT more easily. That's the best my memory can do... but maybe I've triggered someone else here to explain. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by MLBrumby

[KJHburg]

Some of our light rail lines in Charlotte are on or by the state owned NC Railroad Company which leases liens to Norfolk Southern but we had met resistance here too with railroads. If your lines go down medians expect a few years of pure misery and all kinds of business disruptions. Only a few miles do that in Charlotte and it was very disruptive especially on our newest line that is soon opening.  Our planned north line is meeting lots of resistance from NS. NS moved their intermodal yard to a location at the airport and that did open up land for a railyard for our LYNX.  But it causes a boom and now that the line is almost complete to the Northeast we are seeing massive new apartment complexes started. On the line to the south after literally thousands of apartments were and are being built we are now seeing office and retail space want to be near the stations. 

[titanhog]

6 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Some of our light rail lines in Charlotte are on or by the state owned NC Railroad Company which leases liens to Norfolk Southern but we had met resistance here too with railroads. If your lines go down medians expect a few years of pure misery and all kinds of business disruptions. Only a few miles do that in Charlotte and it was very disruptive especially on our newest line that is soon opening.  Our planned north line is meeting lots of resistance from NS. NS moved their intermodal yard to a location at the airport and that did open up land for a railyard for our LYNX.  But it causes a boom and now that the line is almost complete to the Northeast we are seeing massive new apartment complexes started. On the line to the south after literally thousands of apartments were and are being built we are now seeing office and retail space want to be near the stations. 

How does it impact traffic?  I'm assuming it does away with continuous turn lanes?

[KJHburg]

3 minutes ago, titanhog said:

How does it impact traffic?  I'm assuming it does away with continuous turn lanes?

There are just left turns at lights usually but at major intersections our light rail crosses over on bridges. Some businesses lost some of their parking lots for sure. 

[smeagolsfree]

The big problem here with the RR's is there is no excess capacity for rail on existing lines. If anything, the rail lines here are maxed out, if not over capacity.

There are a couple of exceptions to the rule and they are the route that is proposed to come in from Clarksville. The line in pat is abandoned and pulled up in places and have been converted to rails to trails. Part of that line does service a few industries in Ashland City, but that is as far as it goes, so that line is  almost totally available.

There are two other exceptions, one being the current Music City Star that runs from Lebanon. The other is one that our friend Rookzie will have to help with, as this is the line that comes in from the West. I am unsure of where this particular line starts, but I do know it runs through the Nations into Sylvan Heights and through the One City and HCA campuses.

There were plans to put commuter stations on this route, but things are so preliminary now, that we just do not know the entire plan.

 

Any other rail being light or heavy would require new tracks along commuter routes.

For the first leg of this project, I would rather see the line come down Gallatin road until it runs into Briley, then make a hard right to Ellington Parkway and run down the median of that road. A lot less disruptive. Park and ride stations could be build along and over the road. Connecting bus routes should run up roads like Trinity, Douglass, Cleveland, Ben Allen, etc and run frequently to connect East Nashville with the line. The line could then come in along Spring Street and connect to Jefferson and cross the river.

 

[AronG]

I don't know much about what the viable options are here, but for my money putting light rail stations in or near the middle of an interstate (or an interstate-ish road like Ellington) would basically hamstring this whole thing. I get that it would be easier to build there, but what would we be sacrificing?

If we're going to build a system that enables us to absorb the next million people without throwing a million more cars onto the interstates, the stations need to be located where they can be surrounded, preferably on all sides, by pleasant, dense residential and retail development, of the type that might give hundreds or thousands of people access to each station without walking more than 5 or 6 blocks. Park and ride lots, which creates big dead zones for pedestrians, should be a secondary priority for outer stations.

Ellington and Gallatin run essentially parallel as corridors to get downtown. But one of them is a wasteland for pedestrian traffic: a 1960s-style car-centric super highway with big setbacks and barriers separating it from surrounding single-family neighborhoods, and huge chunks of land tied up in cloverleaf intersections and on-ramps. The other one is lined with popular businesses and some (intermittent) residential density, and has a pre-existing population of transit users.

I know it would be more complicated, cost more, and frustrate some car commuters, but is there no way to decrease & narrow the vehicle lanes on Gallatin (pushing the through traffic to 65, Ellington, or Briley) and put the rail right were people want to be, instead of a half-mile away?

[Vrtigo]

2 hours ago, claya91 said:

The night the Preds swept the Hawks, Uber wanted $40 for a quick trip from West End to Rose Pepper Cantina out East, 85 for an Uber Black. They were still busy. 

How's that light rail proposal sounding right about now? 

[smeagolsfree]

I understand your point of view on this. Too many things to consider.

[PaulChinetti]

Everyone seems to think, we can just snap our fingers and boom public transportation will happen. It'll have to be woven into the fiber of the city, we have all these disconnected areas (the area around rose pepper, midtown, the area around Melrose) and once they are connected those areas will build up and there will be winners and losers for sure but just doing nothing is beyond short sighted. 

I always want to scream and bonk people over the head who shout, that doing anything that's not perfect right away is not worth doing. It's gonna take time, the NYC or Underground or any of the big ones weren't built in a day. It's gonna take time and pain but in the end it'll be worth it. 

/rant, Draft time! #titanup

[rookzie]

7 hours ago, AronG said:

I don't know much about what the viable options are here, but for my money putting light rail stations in or near the middle of an interstate (or an interstate-ish road like Ellington) would basically hamstring this whole thing. I get that it would be easier to build there, but what would we be sacrificing?

If we're going to build a system that enables us to absorb the next million people without throwing a million more cars onto the interstates, the stations need to be located where they can be surrounded, preferably on all sides, by pleasant, dense residential and retail development, of the type that might give hundreds or thousands of people access to each station without walking more than 5 or 6 blocks. Park and ride lots, which creates big dead zones for pedestrians, should be a secondary priority for outer stations.

Ellington and Gallatin run essentially parallel as corridors to get downtown. But one of them is a wasteland for pedestrian traffic: a 1960s-style car-centric super highway with big setbacks and barriers separating it from surrounding single-family neighborhoods, and huge chunks of land tied up in cloverleaf intersections and on-ramps. The other one is lined with popular businesses and some (intermittent) residential density, and has a pre-existing population of transit users.

I know it would be more complicated, cost more, and frustrate some car commuters, but is there no way to decrease & narrow the vehicle lanes on Gallatin (pushing the through traffic to 65, Ellington, or Briley) and put the rail right were people want to be, instead of a half-mile away?

That actually had been Mayor Dean's general proposal back in 2009, prior to the mounting, heated sentiment concerning the East-West BRT connector.  Dean had publicly suggested a plan of pre-engineering and acquisition of dedicated busway for the BRT along Gallatin, beyond the then-accepted eastern terminus, as outlined for "near-finalized" plan of that transit initiative, near the confluence of N 11th and Main Streets (a loop to have included Forrest and Clearview Avenues).   But this had been long before the current comprehensive county-wide plan.

I always had envisioned that the replacement CSX RR overpass of Gallatin Pike at the Amqui community in Madison (just north of Nesbitt and Anderson Lanes) would have been engineered specifically for accommodating future LRT.  That would have been much too coordinated planning, however.  But yes, acquiring right-of-way along Gallatin Road had been discussed as a "foremost priority" during the mid-term of former Karl Dean's first elected stay of office, and Dean's concept had been to upgrade an extended BRT RoW for LRT use, along Gallatin.

Edited April 27, 2017 by rookzie

[MLBrumby]

3 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Everyone seems to think, we can just snap our fingers and boom public transportation will happen. It'll have to be woven into the fiber of the city, we have all these disconnected areas (the area around rose pepper, midtown, the area around Melrose) and once they are connected those areas will build up and there will be winners and losers for sure but just doing nothing is beyond short sighted. 

I always want to scream and bonk people over the head who shout, that doing anything that's not perfect right away is not worth doing. It's gonna take time, the NYC or Underground or any of the big ones weren't built in a day. It's gonna take time and pain but in the end it'll be worth it. 

/rant, Draft time! #titanup

I'd love it if a certain the owner of a massive car dealership at West End and the inner loop were to lose out on transit... as it would bypass his property completely. The guy is already sitting on a goldmine and there's no way he'd be a loser, but having a LRT stop right outside his building would be a boon to the value of that property.  In the past, I have advocated a route that runs generally along Hayes/Church to 21st, then over to Division and to the Roundabout before going back into the CBD. 

[PaulChinetti]

@MLBrumby

I talked with a police officer once that was on the committee to get the barriers on broadway in front of all the businesses so there would be more sidewalks space. He said never in his life had he talked to more hard headed, short sighted people. They complained for weeks about employees needing the parking spots, where would deliveries be made?!, etc, etc. Until they finally got them to agree to the change, now that it's happened they LOVE IT. 

Change is hard for everyone even if it's just over 3 parking spots. But like I said not a reason to do it.

[Guest]

Adding this without commentary - just FYI

Emerging technologies for commuting

[AronG]

On 4/26/2017 at 11:09 AM, MLBrumby said:

Mayor Barry's new budget shows Gallatin Rd. as first corridor for LRT...  http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/26/mayor-barry-proposes-light-rail-gallatin-pike-kicks-off-public-vote-funding-transit/100394724/

So the money quote in this for me was "I’m very happy to announce that today the work begins to create light rail service on the Gallatin Pike corridor." But does anybody have any insight into what that might mean? Is it just the announcement of another planning process (presumably a more specific one than Moving Forward, etc.)? Is she saying that they're going to try to move forward with this independent of the upcoming funding referendum?

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, AronG said:

So the money quote in this for me was "I’m very happy to announce that today the work begins to create light rail service on the Gallatin Pike corridor." But does anybody have any insight into what that might mean? Is it just the announcement of another planning process (presumably a more specific one than Moving Forward, etc.)? Is she saying that they're going to try to move forward with this independent of the upcoming funding referendum?

I think that refers to planning, praying and a general crossing of fingers.