The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[fieldmarshaldj]

I'll bet that plan would cost at least $1 or $2 billion on the low end.

[Neigeville2]

6 hours ago, PHofKS said:

I have been intrigued by the possibility of part of the proposed light-rail system being run underground through downtown. I did a crude plan and profile to get an idea how this might work.

...

I have the Charlotte Ave. line connecting to the Gallatin Rd line at a station under the Public Library. The entrance to the station could be built in the pocket park across the street. For the west entrance, the line would have to be elevated over the CSX RR yard and enter a tunnel near 7th and immediately turn downward. I think there is only room for one station under the city. The line would head east and go over the Cumberland River on a bridge with sufficient clearance and head towards a Stadium Station. Then it would go up Gallatin Road.

The profile.....

Just some idle thinking...

 

 

I've had similar inclinations myself, but I feel 1) a station needs to be underneath Music City Central to make for easy bus connections (ideally all trains would stop at this station) and 2) I think the densest part of downtown should ultimately have a station every few blocks.    We don't want to end up like Austin, with one station way off to one side of downtown.  Also the conventional wisdom on tunnels might not be keeping up with changing technology.

[Pdt2f]

^ Heck, if it can be done as easy and cheap as that article elaborated, I would be game. Depends on how much the actual cost is, though: what is cheap for New York, London, and Singapore may be prohibitively expensive for Nashville, plus you'd have to factor in the costs of building an underground transfer station and a few stops. The question I have is this: the article mentioned that while digging a tunnel in New York the digging machines helped to lower costs to $19,000 per foot (as opposed to $1 million per foot of manually dug tunnel). How much would digging the tunnels under downtown cost in Nashville? 

[timmay143]

[Neigeville2]

42 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

^ Heck, if it can be done as easy and cheap as that article elaborated, I would be game. Depends on how much the actual cost is, though: what is cheap for New York, London, and Singapore may be prohibitively expensive for Nashville, plus you'd have to factor in the costs of building an underground transfer station and a few stops. The question I have is this: the article mentioned that while digging a tunnel in New York the digging machines helped to lower costs to $19,000 per foot (as opposed to $1 million per foot of manually dug tunnel). How much would digging the tunnels under downtown cost in Nashville? 

well, $19,000/foot x 5,280 ft = $100,320,000/mile and I think we could traverse the CBD in about .7 miles so $70,000,000 at New York prices (just for the tunnel).  New York's substrate is very hard granite, however, and ours is limestone of varying  degrees of crumbliness, so likely cheaper.  Also a project like Amazon/Nashville Yards/5th+Broad might be willing to chip in a dime or two.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Neigeville2

[titanhog]

Still think mass transit hover crafts are the future.

[nashwatcher]

7 hours ago, Neigeville2 said:

well, $19,000/foot x 5,280 ft = $100,320,000/mile and I think we could traverse the CBD in about .7 miles so $70,000,000 at New York prices (just for the tunnel).  New York's substrate is very hard granite, however, and ours is limestone of varying  degrees of crumbliness, so likely cheaper.  Also a project like Amazon/Nashville Yards/5th+Broad might be willing to chip in a dime or two.

if the prices have really come down to this level for underground tunnels, we should invest in several stations so we're not re-doing the system in 20 years when it no longer serves our population's needs. put a station at the library to connect the gallatin/charlotte line, connect it with a station on the southern end at the howard office complex (which is the end of the division st extension) to connect the murfreesboro/nolensville lines

i hope we really research this because if the prices aren't insanely astronomical, it could be a huge long term asset for our downtown

[markhollin]

With a limited budget and limited man-hours, Metro’s infrastructure builders are turning to new solutions for old problems.

As once sparsely populated areas of Nashville fill in with a growing population, gaps and deficiencies in the city’s infrastructure become more obvious. One glaring example: bus stops that leave passengers on a road’s unprotected shoulder, separated from a disjointed sidewalk system.

Nashville officials are looking to cities such as Minneapolis, Denver and Austin for quick-build inspiration. But the mayor’s transportation director adds a city closer to home — Memphis — “is doing a great job” with quick-build technologies.

Metro’s quick-build projects are not intended to be permanent solutions, but rather temporary salves for Nashville’s growing pains.

“We’ve got so many needs across Davidson County that we have to really try and make some sort of an impact very quickly,” says Jeffrey Hammond, assistant director for transportation at Metro Public Works.  “At the same time, it allows us to test things. If we put it in and it doesn’t work out, it’s really easy to pull those back out and learn.”

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/nashville-post-magazine/article/20977060/a-need-for-speed

 

[MidTenn1]

^^^^^^ Alright....Jeff Hammond moving on up.

[NashvilleObserver]

15 hours ago, Neigeville2 said:

I've had similar inclinations myself, but I feel 1) a station needs to be underneath Music City Central to make for easy bus connections (ideally all trains would stop at this station) and 2) I think the densest part of downtown should ultimately have a station every few blocks.    We don't want to end up like Austin, with one station way off to one side of downtown.  Also the conventional wisdom on tunnels might not be keeping up with changing technology.

As well as several stops in SoBro. 

[markhollin]

Mayor Megan Barry’s proposal to install Nashville’s first light rail service along this corridor is likely to prove another development catalyst. To help us envision how some prominent sections of Gallatin could be reinvigorated with the help of that high-profile transit option, The Nashville Post turned to Ken Henley, visualization manager at Earl Swensson Associates, and his team. They identified three corner lots that are either undeveloped or home to unused buildings and thought about how they could be overhauled. Here’s what he came up with. Renderings of all three ideas are below.

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/nashville-post-magazine/article/20977194/transit-makeovers

1100 Inglewood:

4150 Gallatin:

 

2821 Gallatin:

[titanhog]

^^I love Corner Burger burgers! 

[Rockatansky]

On 9/26/2017 at 12:05 PM, PHofKS said:

I did a crude plan and profile to get an idea how this might work.

I would think that a connection to or via Music City Central would be preferred.  That'd make connecting to MTA buses much easier.

[Pdt2f]

3 hours ago, NashvilleObserver said:

As well as several stops in SoBro. 

[grilled_cheese]

1100 Inglewood would be great!  That lot is vacant and they just park moving trucks there now.

[markhollin]

Mapping out ideas for recreating the Nolensville Pike corridor:

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/nashville-post-magazine/article/20977315/recreating-a-corridor
 

[PruneTracy]

19 hours ago, Pdt2f said:

"How does a city with two million people not have $3 billion to spend on a downtown subway?"

[markhollin]

 

[markhollin]

A newly proposed Metro ordinance directly ties one factor in the region's boom — incentives — to Nashville's biggest growing pain — mobility.

Proposed by Metro Councilwoman Burkley Allen, the ordinance — which can be viewed in its entirety here— would require companies receiving Metro incentives to contact the Nashville Metropolitan Transit Authority to potentially participate in the MTA's vanpool commuter program, called EasyRide, in addition to mandating an annual written report about the company's participation rate for full-time equivalent employees in the vanpool program.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2017/10/02/want-metro-incentives-be-prepared-to-use-transit.html

[PruneTracy]

19 hours ago, markhollin said:

Proposed by Metro Councilwoman Burkley Allen, the ordinance — which can be viewed in its entirety here— would require companies receiving Metro incentives to contact the Nashville Metropolitan Transit Authority to potentially participate in the MTA's vanpool commuter program, called EasyRide, in addition to mandating an annual written report about the company's participation rate for full-time equivalent employees in the vanpool program.

So CM Allen wants businesses who receive money from Metro to spend money to create a report to be provided to Metro. Welcome to the world of transit consulting, random businesses!

[markhollin]

From today's NBJ:

Here is how much Mayor Barry could increase taxes to fund mass transit:

Mayor Megan Barry will unveil her plan for funding mass transit in Nashville later this month, but Nashvillians don't have to wait to find out the maximum amount of tax increases she could seek.

The IMPROVE Act — which passed the Legislature this year and opened the door for the mayor's planned May referendum — contains certain restrictions on just how much mayors can raise various taxes for dedicated mass-transit funding.

Mass transit has become the dominant issue in Nashville, with business leaders fearful that the city's growing mobility issues will curb Nashville's long-term growth. However, the dominant question remains: How will Nashville pay for the $6 billion plan.

The law puts limitations on six taxes: sales taxes, business taxes, wheel taxes, rental car taxes, hotel/motel taxes and residential development taxes. Property taxes were not included in the IMPROVE Act, but could also be increased in the mayor's yet-to-be released funding proposal.

"There were a lot of interested parties and those parties who understood the need for the mayors and the local governing bodies to find funding mechanisms wanted to make sure there were enough bumpers in place so that local governing bodies wouldn’t go too far," Nashville lobbyist Mark Cate said in a phone conversation. "You have urban mayors, suburban mayors and rural mayors. In one area a mayor and the governing bodies would say it may be easier for us to sell this to our citizens to do a wheel tax while another might say it’s easier to use a hotel/motel tax."

Cate's firm, Stones River Group, represented the Middle Tennessee Mayors' Caucus during IMPROVE Act negotiations.

"There’s no question the greatest revenue is going to come from an increase in the sales tax," Cate said. "With that said, you’re going to find most mayors and governing bodies interested in having a mix, so it appears it's not just one source we’re going to put this all on."

Here are the six parameters put in place by the General Assembly:

• Sales tax
  • Current status: Nashvillians now pay a 7 percent state sales tax, with a 2.25 percent surcharge for Davidson County.
  • Prior to the IMPROVE Act, each county had the authority to raise their local surcharge to 2.75 percent, which means Nashville fell below that bar. Under the IMPROVE Act, mayors can ask voters to increase the local sales tax by another 2.75 percentage points, giving them a combined maximum sales tax of 12.5 percent.
• Business taxes
  • Current status: Nashville is one of several Tennessee cities that has a local surcharge on the state's business tax. That tax rate changes based on the classification of the business.
  • Under the IMPROVE Act, mayors can ask voters to increase the local business tax by an additional 20 percent, meaning if the current rate is 5 percent, the tax could only go up to 6 percent.
• Wheel tax
  • Current status: Davidson County currently charges $55 per year for private vehicles and $66 per year for commercial vehicles to register a vehicle in the county. Drivers also pay a $24 annual fee for state vehicle registration.
  • Under the IMPROVE Act, Barry can ask voters to increase that fee to $200 per vehicle.
• Rental car taxes
  • Current status: In Tennessee, rental cars are taxed at 3 percent, with Davidson County adding its own 1 percent surcharge on rental cars.
  • Under the IMPROVE Act, Barry can ask voters to increase the rental car tax by an additional 20 percent.
• Hotel/motel taxes
  • Current status: Davidson County currently charges a $2.50-per-night surtax and 6 percent occupancy tax on all hotel/motel rooms, in addition to the combined state and local sales tax of 9.25 percent. This means the total tax rate for a hotel/motel in Davidson County is 15.25 percent. Furthermore, Goodlettsville charges an additional 3 percent tax on all hotel rooms within the city, giving it a combined 18.25 percent rate.
  • Under the IMPROVE Act, Barry can ask voters to increase the county's hotel/motel tax to a combined 20 percent.
• Residential development taxes
  • This portion of the IMPROVE Act is not applicable to Davidson County, since the county was not collecting any such taxes when the IMPROVE Act went into effect. Williamson County, Nashville's affluent southern neighbor, is the only county that uses it currently. For instance, for every new home built in Williamson County, homeowners pay an "Education Impact Fee," which is a graduated fee based on the new home's square footage that goes into Williamson County's school system. The IMPROVE Act would cap any increase on residential development taxes by an additional 20 percent of the current rate.

[nashwatcher]

After reading the article about the Tourism department's ability to acquire land for future transit spots (and how they now have a surplus of funds that are intended for purposes such as this) it kind of gets me excited about the potential to create cool creative, artistic light rail/subway transit spots around our downtown. Hopefully Metro continues acquiring land as I think this will significantly add to future vibe of our downtown (for tourists, businesses, and residents alike)

[KJHburg]

Is there chance they would raise the sales tax to 12.5% good grief that would be the highest in the country.  Even boosting your sales tax to 10% would be in the upper stratosphere in the sales tax rates around the country.  A hotel tax approaching 20% could really dent your tourism and convention business too.  What do you think is possible to get your plan funded?  Sales tax increases and hotel taxes at a much higher rate could cost you business.  What about the gas tax or would the state allow that?

Highest sales taxes in US https://taxfoundation.org/highest-sales-tax-united-states

Edited October 7, 2017 by KJHburg

[Pdt2f]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Is there chance they would raise the sales tax to 12.5% good grief that would be the highest in the country.  Even boosting your sales tax to 10% would be in the upper stratosphere in the sales tax rates around the country.  A hotel tax approaching 20% could really dent your tourism and convention business too.  What do you think is possible to get your plan funded?  Sales tax increases and hotel taxes at a much higher rate could cost you business.  What about the gas tax or would the state allow that?

Highest sales taxes in US https://taxfoundation.org/highest-sales-tax-united-states

It just becomes a question of where they're going to get the money. Income tax is no-go (thank God), property tax increases are politically unpopular (and the public perception is that they're higher than they actually are), and low taxes on businesses are much of the reason for the economic growth that makes things like better transit feasible and desirable. It only leaves a few sources. Hopefully with all the hotels coming online in the next year or two it'll lower prices a bit to make any additional hotel taxes unnoticed. I'd be interested in knowing about the gas tax, though. 

[nashwatcher]

7 hours ago, Pdt2f said:

It just becomes a question of where they're going to get the money. Income tax is no-go (thank God), property tax increases are politically unpopular (and the public perception is that they're higher than they actually are), and low taxes on businesses are much of the reason for the economic growth that makes things like better transit feasible and desirable. It only leaves a few sources. Hopefully with all the hotels coming online in the next year or two it'll lower prices a bit to make any additional hotel taxes unnoticed. I'd be interested in knowing about the gas tax, though. 

Gas tax makes A LOT of sense to me

It encourages the use of mass transit if it's substantial enough. As a culture we've become really dependent on our cars and could probably benefit from thinking out our trips instead of just driving whenever the whim hits us. Also, it hopefully reduces pollution which is good for everyone's health.