The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[smeagolsfree]

If by chance, hell freezes over and we get Amazon, I see an excellerated contruction timeline with assistance from the State.

[LA_TN]

5 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

I'm not really sure about the underground tunnel portion of the plan.  It seems a little too "extra".  Maybe an alternative? 

That question has been asked, and we learned the tunnel is the cheaper alternative to anything above ground. By tunneling, business impact will be none to minimal; which could have a financial impact on the city far greater than the cost of the tunnel 

[nashvylle]

I bet if the referendum does not pass, amazon drops us. 

[grilled_cheese]

What leg would be the first built?

I also don't agree with the downtown tunnel portion.  That should not really be part of the plan at this point.

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^ Gallatin Pike corridor would be the first light rail built due to highest current ridership of buses and overwhelmingly positive interest from people in that community.

The tunnel needs to be built as a terminal for all the buses and train lines.  No other feasible way to do it that would not be more expensive and/or obstructive to downtown flow/commerce.

[nashvylle]

I'm sure there is a way we could build an elevated train along the same route that CXS has by the state capitol. 

I know it's a done deal on the tunnel tho. 

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^ CSX are are an uncooperative, unyielding, selfish group of SOB's.  There.  I said it.  They simply do NOT want to assist with any sort of plan to help with transit rail in any way, shape , or form because they don't HAVE to according to all the rules granted them when everything got grandfathered regarding right of way, etc. over a century ago.    

[Neigeville2]

8 hours ago, nashvylle said:

I'm sure there is a way we could build an elevated train along the same route that CXS has by the state capitol. ...

This would be to repeat the mistake Austin made-building transit where the tracks already are instead of where people need to go.  Austin has decided not to build any more light rail because of the disappointing ridership on the one line they built, which only goes off to one side of downtown.  With the tunnel plan, our downtown will have three stations, 5th and Charlotte, 5th and Lafayette, and above all 5th and Broadway, directly in front of the arena, right where they are likely to attract the most riders.

[nashvylle]

15 hours ago, markhollin said:

^ ^ ^ CSX are are an uncooperative, unyielding, selfish group of SOB's.  There.  I said it.  They simply do NOT want to assist with any sort of plan to help with transit rail in any way, shape , or form because they don't HAVE to according to all the rules granted them when everything got grandfathered regarding right of way, etc. over a century ago.    

I agree with you, but I was not saying to utilize CSX's tracks, just build next to where they are downtown. 

Either way, I know it's not going to happen so we can all move on haha

[AronG]

On 1/20/2018 at 11:49 PM, Neigeville2 said:

This would be to repeat the mistake Austin made-building transit where the tracks already are instead of where people need to go.  Austin has decided not to build any more light rail because of the disappointing ridership on the one line they built, which only goes off to one side of downtown.  With the tunnel plan, our downtown will have three stations, 5th and Charlotte, 5th and Lafayette, and above all 5th and Broadway, directly in front of the arena, right where they are likely to attract the most riders.

This is something that gets missed by a lot of people when they imagine building trains in the middle of the interstate, down Ellington, etc. Yes that would be much easier to get the right-of-way and to build, but that's a moot point. Mass transit depends on dense populations *within walking distance* of the stations. And people won't walk more than a few blocks on each end of their commute, so every foot of unused real estate near a station is a huge wasted resource.

I hear people say we should run lines in from the suburbs all the time, but it just doesn't pencil out. There's nowhere in Franklin, Murfreesboro, etc. that you could put a train station that would provide pedestrian access for more than a few hundred people. Which means you'd have to surround the station with an ocean of parking for people to drive to it. But that effectively turns it into a one-way station, because no-one is going to commute *to* a giant parking lot. So other than at rush hour, trains would run completely empty in one direction and mostly empty in the other.

The same thing is true of any design that tries to run tracks through sparse areas with easy-to-obtain land, and then make up for it with big park-and-ride lots. Go to Dallas and try to ride the DART anywhere except downtown. The stations are a mile away from the areas of interest, so they're ghost-towns.

The premise of running the lines down Gallatin, Charlotte, etc. is that we suck it up on the front end, get the network operational at our current (minimal) level of density, and over the next decades enable the incoming hordes of future Nashvillians to move into denser areas near transit stations instead of outer-ring suburbs where they have to join the daily parking lot on I-24.

[Pdt2f]

^ Great post. I think most people’s desire to see trains running in from the suburbs is entirely traffic-related, not really development or convenience related. Whether people actually use a mass commuter rail system from the suburbs remains to be seen, though. 

[Neigeville2]

This is what Murfreesboro ought to do (if it had the vision and the pocketbook San Francisco has!)  Some of the existing stations are getting housing built next to and even on top of them.

 

[markhollin]

"Signifcant progress" in the scoring system put together by Moving Forward, a group backed by the Chamber of Commerce regarding transit solutions for Nashville:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/01/23/significant-progress-where-nashvilles-transit.html

See the report here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/nashvillechamber.com/PDFs/2018_MovingForward_Scorecard.pdf

[markhollin]

Mayor Megan Barry’s mass-transit referendum is one step away from appearing on the May 1 ballot. Metro Council voted 30-6 Tuesday to advance the proposal; a third and final vote is still required.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/01/24/barry-s-transit-referendum-approved-by-council.html

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, markhollin said:

Mayor Megan Barry’s mass-transit referendum is one step away from appearing on the May 1 ballot. Metro Council voted 30-6 Tuesday to advance the proposal; a third and final vote is still required.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/01/24/barry-s-transit-referendum-approved-by-council.html

And shockingly enough the Koch brothers are coming in hard against this. Big oil does not like the thought of you using their product less. 

[Guest]

Ha, are you booked at Zanies? Ha

 

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Guest

[samsonh]

20 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

Ha, are you booked at Zanies? Ha

 

 

?

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, samsonh said:

And shockingly enough the Koch brothers are coming in hard against this. Big oil does not like the thought of you using their product less. 

Come on, the Koch Brothers are 6 decade libertarians ... not hit men from big oil starring in a Bond film. They disagree with wasteful spending and have used their resources to lobby to support said philosophy....as we all do. The mania from the left to malign such actions is comical....thus the tounge-in-cheek Zanies reference....

[samsonh]

2 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

Come on, the Koch Brothers are 6 decade libertarians ... not hit men from big oil starring in a Bond film. They disagree with wasteful spending and have used their resources to lobby to support said philosophy....as we all do. The mania from the left to malign such actions is comical....thus the tounge-in-cheek Zanies reference....

They also own pipelines that traverse the country and a decent sized oil operation. You can attribute their involvement to libertarian leanings, I will attribute it to their financial motives.  I don't think my view is comical in any case. 

[Guest]

Ha, okay

[ruraljuror]

5 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

Come on, the Koch Brothers are 6 decade libertarians ... not hit men from big oil starring in a Bond film. They disagree with wasteful spending and have used their resources to lobby to support said philosophy....as we all do. The mania from the left to malign such actions is comical....thus the tounge-in-cheek Zanies reference....

And the good people at AirBnB and their lobbyists are probably just property rights activists who want to ensure the freedom of Tennessean home owners to do with their property as they see fit.  I'm sure it's completely unrelated that the political philosophies they spend money supporting happen to directly relate to their financial interests.

[Guest]

we All are self-interested and act as such...

 

anyhoo great coffee house topic for any who have an interest....I will try and post and respond later

[ruraljuror]

7 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

we All are self-interested and act as such...

 

anyhoo great coffee house topic for any who have an interest....I will try and post and respond later

 

Of course we are All self-interested, but SOME people choose to prioritize the greater good ahead of their own self interest.  We can always debate what is 'the greater good' but I think it's fair to be skeptical of those who envision a 'greater good' that just so happens to directly coincide with their own self-interest.  

[nashwatcher]

Exactly. The way I see it is if you can identify with the whole and strive to make life better for all, that’s positive. If you only care about yourself and a few in your group, you need to look yourself in the mirror

[Rockatansky]

30 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

We All are self-interested and act as such...

Not all the time. I frequently advocate for policies which could harm me financially because they promote the greater good. I wish more would do the same.