The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Guest]

Reading your post makes me think I missed a subject switch earlier in the thread. If we are not talking about citizens having the absolute right to vote No as a matter of policy then my argument is overstated. These citizens also have every right to attend planning meetings and voice continued concerns and opposition...even if the referendum is passed.  However, I am not advocating opponents have some right to be placed on actual pro-transit committees or other equally issue driven bodies. 

 

1 hour ago, ruraljuror said:

 

People who don't want the city to address the transportation issue are welcome to vote No on the referendum.  They can also vote to elect city council members who oppose creating a transportation plan, and state/federal legislators who oppose mass transit expenditures.  And you're right that their No votes are every bit as valid as the Yes votes.

In the process of designing the actual plan, however, the people who voted No would be irrelevant for all practical purposes if blanket opposition is all they are bringing to the table.  On the other hand, if they are willing to say 'No, but even though I completely disagree with implementing a new transit plan, these are the ways I think we can improve the plan you're working on just in case it ends up happening" then they could be a valuable, constructive part of the process.  

When the city put together the team to create Nashville's bid for Amazon HQ2, I'm sure they had members of that team with very different opinions about what should be included in the bid and how it should be presented, etc.  But I guarantee no one on the team was sitting in the room just saying 'No, I don't want Amazon in Nashville and I don't think we should be making this bid in the first place."  What purpose would that serve?  

 

[markhollin]

Here is a link to RSVP (it's free) for the Transit Now Nashville February Transit Mixer.  They will be co-hosting with Urban League of Middle Tennessee at the newly renovated Woolworth on 5th restaurant. 

Exciting topics up for discussion: The proposed transit plan including a special presentation on tunnel technology, MTA system improvements, & Voting in May.

Light hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available for attendees. 

https://www.facebook.com/events/190788541512361/

 

[nashwatcher]

Anyone willing to guess odds on whether the transit referendum is going to pass?

I'd say 60%

[PaulChinetti]

Based on the amount of bad information out there now I'd say closer to 40%

If the transit plan people get some good ads out there across all media about the actual costs, then I'd put it closer to 60%.

 

I've started to see yard signs and ads on twitter/insta but I assume that's based on who I'm following.

[nashvylle]

I also give it 40%, down from 50/50 prior to mayor Barry's sexual misconduct 

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/uber-sales-reach-7-5-billion-in-2017-despite-persistent-turmoil

"Despite a turbulent year for the ride-hailing company, sales were $7.5 billion. But the company also posted a substantial loss of $4.5 billion. There are few historical precedents for the scale of its loss."

Good lord. 

[smeagolsfree]

Sounds like they will not be around for long or someone is skimming billions from the profits.

[Pdt2f]

Most of the Facebook talk I’ve seen has been negative about transit, from glancing through the comment sections in posts about transit from the major Nashville news outlets. But then again, there’s no guarantee those are from people living in Davidson county with the desire to get out and vote. As far as I can tell all of the yard signs I’ve seen (and I’m all over town almost every day) have been the “No tax for tracks” ones, but I’m not sure the pro transit groups are distributing many yard signs yet. With the mayor’s affair accounted for I’d say it has maybe a 35% chance of passing. 

58 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/uber-sales-reach-7-5-billion-in-2017-despite-persistent-turmoil

"Despite a turbulent year for the ride-hailing company, sales were $7.5 billion. But the company also posted a substantial loss of $4.5 billion. There are few historical precedents for the scale of its loss."

Good lord. 

I wonder how much longer these kind of losses are sustainable. Eventually investors have got to get tired of pumping money into this. It’s also interesting because developers and city planners are already planning a future where ride sharing is a big part of life...what happens if it turns out that it’s basically not economically worth it for companies to run ride sharing services? 

[samsonh]

Has anyone else been shocked at the poor quality of roads (especially 440) after the weekend rains. This is why you have to invest in transportation infrastructure. Cars were getting destroyed on 440. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by samsonh

[SoundScan]

Uber's investors are knowingly subsidizing rider fees to gain market dominance and ward off competition. They also have massive R&D costs due to their autonomous vehicle development (i.e. their end-game). Softbank just acquired a substantial stake in Uber late last year (in a down round) that increased their cash reserves by ~$10 billion. It's a boom or bust play but if it pays off --with the real-world deployment of autonomous vehicle fleets--Uber is set to become one of the largest and most valuable companies in the world. 

[PaulChinetti]

10 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

Most of the Facebook talk I’ve seen has been negative about transit, from glancing through the comment sections in posts about transit from the major Nashville news outlets. But then again, there’s no guarantee those are from people living in Davidson county with the desire to get out and vote. As far as I can tell all of the yard signs I’ve seen (and I’m all over town almost every day) have been the “No tax for tracks” ones, but I’m not sure the pro transit groups are distributing many yard signs yet. With the mayor’s affair accounted for I’d say it has maybe a 35% chance of passing. 

I'd definitely say they are negative, anytime the Mayor posts anything now, it's all negative about her affair. It's crazy, I know trolls exist but some of the things these people are saying is mind blowing. 

Yeah I wonder about the people who actually live in Davidson county and who can/will vote, there was a person on Nextdoor once that was arguing about against changing 8th Ave S from 4 lanes. Their biggest argument was that they didn't want their commute to Brentwood slowed down, zero cares about the people that live here. "I JUST WANT TO GET HOME FASTER!" was their entire argument, it was very frustrating. Especially considering all the data that is/was being shown.

[SoundScan]

2 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Has anyone else been shocked at the poor quality of roads (especially 440) after the weekend rains. This is why you have to invest in transportation infrastructure. Cars were getting destroyed on 440. 

Yes. There are massive potholes all across the area. The mix of endless rain and cold weather has wrecked them but they'll be patched eventually. I440 is a different beast entirely that thankfully is set for a complete overhaul beginning later this year.

[PaulChinetti]

8 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Has anyone else been shocked at the poor quality of roads (especially 440) after the weekend rains. This is why you have to invest in transportation infrastructure. Cars were getting destroyed on 440. 

I think all that rain/snow, then ridiculously cold temperatures hit 440 especially hard. 

It's concrete too, I remember back in 2010ish? When they went through and sanded the whole thing flat, I lived right off the 21st Ave exit and it was loud and dusty for a few nights.

Edited February 14, 2018 by PaulChinetti
addition

[Dale]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

I also give it 40%, down from 50/50 prior to mayor Barry's sexual misconduct 

I think Davidson county voters will stand behind Barry even if it is revealed that she drowned puppies.

[Pdt2f]

8 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

I'd definitely say they are negative, anytime the Mayor posts anything now, it's all negative about her affair. It's crazy, I know trolls exist but some of the things these people are saying is mind blowing. 

Yeah I wonder about the people who actually live in Davidson county and who can/will vote, there was a person on Nextdoor once that was arguing about against changing 8th Ave S from 4 lanes. Their biggest argument was that they didn't want their commute to Brentwood slowed down, zero cares about the people that live here. "I JUST WANT TO GET HOME FASTER!" was their entire argument, it was very frustrating. Especially considering all the data that is/was being shown.

Yeah I’m pretty sure like 90% of the comments on there are people who live outside of Nashville yet still think they should have a say in internal Nashville infrastructure debates. Like before I just threw in the towel and stopped trying to argue I got into several debates with citizens of Rutherford, Sumner, and Williamson county about the transit plan. They were all adamantly opposed because it doesn’t do anything to address traffic on 65 and 24. I kept telling them that this was an internal Nashville plan that was not meant to address traffic concerns of other cities in the area, but they just couldn’t get that. When they started complaining about their commute I started just replying “man, that sucks. Maybe Rutherford county should try and fund a train to Nashville to help with y’alls traffic. But don’t expect the citizens of Nashville to pay to make your commute easier.” 

[markhollin]

Butch Spyridon, CEO of the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation, says the the Transit Plan will be a boost for tourism and hospitality industries:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/02/14/nashvilles-tourism-chief-throws-support-behind-contentious-transit-plan/328981002/

[FromParkAveToTN]

45 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Butch Spyridon, CEO of the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation, says the the Transit Plan will be a boost for tourism and hospitality industries:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/02/14/nashvilles-tourism-chief-throws-support-behind-contentious-transit-plan/328981002/

They need to stop focusing on tourism and hospitality and worry about how the cost of this project is going to impact local residents and people who are barely making ends meet.  

I was planning to  vote YES in May, but I think I'll be voting NO since their focus seems to be all about tourism and hospitality.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by FromParkAveToTN

[Flatrock]

25% chance. Would've given it 60% 2 months ago. I'm a proponent, but so much negative mojo to overcome. Unfortunately, from my area of Nashville, I can anecdotally see considerable resistance.  Already a tough sell, but Mayor Barry closed the lid via her affair. Hope I'm wrong. Perhaps other leadership can get a plan through if this doesn't pass.

[PaulChinetti]

22 minutes ago, FromParkAveToTN said:

They need to stop focusing on tourism and hospitality and worry about how the cost of this project is going to impact local residents and people who are barely making ends meet.  

I was planning to  vote YES in May, but I think I'll be voting NO since their focus seems to be all about tourism and hospitality.

 

Can I ask you how much you think this will impact local residents, cost wise?

[TNinVB]

4 hours ago, SoundScan said:

Yes. There are massive potholes all across the area. The mix of endless rain and cold weather has wrecked them but they'll be patched eventually. I440 is a different beast entirely that thankfully is set for a complete overhaul beginning later this year.

I was out earlier driving around Virginia Beach and thought the pot holes were bad. I guess the cold and rain have done a job on the roads.

[volsfanwill]

there is a ton of mis information out there about the transit plan.  Most of the comments i see on social media keeps repeating the increase in taxes, comes from non residents, and flat out attacks the mayor.  

Im sorry but if you cannot separate the mayor from a civic project that is clearly needed, you need to grow up. 

[jmtunafish]

1 hour ago, volsfanwill said:

there is a ton of mis information out there about the transit plan.  Most of the comments i see on social media keeps repeating the increase in taxes, comes from non residents, and flat out attacks the mayor.  

Im sorry but if you cannot separate the mayor from a civic project that is clearly needed, you need to grow up. 

This civic project isn't something like a new library or fire hall.  This is a huge, very expensive civic project that will radically impact every resident of Davidson County.  I think there's a large segment of the population that was maybe 51% in favor of this simply because they trusted the  mayor.  When that trust evaporated, so did their reluctant support for this plan.  It has nothing to do with being childish or not "grown up."

[Neigeville2]

I still think it'll pass.  Experience in other cities shows there's always rabid opposition until it's built, and then as long as it's at all successful, the transit system becomes a point of civic pride even for people who seldom use it.   The negative Nancies are always the loudest, and as stated above, most of those people probably don't live here anyway.  The time for Williamson, Rutherford and Sumner to step up is after we get our act together here in Davidson.

I don't get the hate for tourists, they'll be paying for like, half of it and if they use it, it'll be to go to restaurants off Nolensville/Murfreesboro/Gallatin/Charlotte (one complaint I've noticed on boards discussing visiting Nashville is "lack of ethnic food" (and lack of diversity), an obvious misperception caused by the fact you didn't get out of downtown) and they'll give their money to local businesses.  How can you complain about that?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Neigeville2

[jmtunafish]

32 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

I still think it'll pass.  Experience in other cities shows there's always rabid opposition until it's built, and then as long as it's at all successful, the transit system becomes a point of civic pride even for people who seldom use it.   The negative Nancies are always the loudest, and as stated above, most of those people probably don't live here anyway.  The time for Williamson, Rutherford and Sumner to step up is after we get our act together here in Davidson.

I don't get the hate for tourists, they'll be paying for like, half of it and if they use it, it'll be to go to restaurants off Nolensville/Murfreesboro/Gallatin/Charlotte (one complaint I've noticed on boards discussing visiting Nashville is "lack of ethnic food" (and lack of diversity), an obvious misperception caused by the fact you didn't get out of downtown) and they'll give their money to local businesses.  How can you complain about that?

I hope you're right.  I remember how Salt Lake City had to deal with the same type of opposition when it wanted to build its first TRAX line.  Once it passed and that first line was built, it became wildly popular.  Extensions and new lines were built with overwhelming public support.  You'd be hard pressed to find someone today who will admit to being opposed to TRAX back in its infancy.  Today TRAX has 3 lines, 50 stations, and just under 20 million annual riders (67k per day).  Granted, SLC and Nashville are not built the same, and it was a lot easier to slap rail lines down the middle of SLC's very wide, very straight, very level streets than it will be for Nashville.  Still, I wish more Nashvillians could go to peer cities like SLC and see what a great light rail system can do for a city.  And while I totally understand why so many Nashvillians have sticker shock, I do know of families in SLC who now get by with just one car instead of 2 because of SLC's great public transportation network.

[FromParkAveToTN]

2 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

This civic project isn't something like a new library or fire hall.  This is a huge, very expensive civic project that will radically impact every resident of Davidson County.  I think there's a large segment of the population that was maybe 51% in favor of this simply because they trusted the  mayor.  When that trust evaporated, so did their reluctant support for this plan.  It has nothing to do with being childish or not "grown up."

I agree. I trusted the mayor had the city's best interest at heart, unfortunately,  she has proven to be self serving and untrustworthy. If her own husband can't trust her, how can we?  I can't help but to wonder If the transit system is just something she can add to her resume to further her political career.