The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[WebberThomas4]

Flying taxis, huh? Mr. Bloom also called the current plan a “rose colored fantasy” earlier in the transit forum. 

[PaulChinetti]

If people think the infrastructure for bus/train lanes is too disruptive. 

Where in the world do you think flying taxis are going to land?? The downtown Aero-dome?

[samsonh]

8 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

Flying taxis, huh? Mr. Bloom also called the current plan a “rose colored fantasy” earlier in the transit forum. 

I do enjoy hearing how light rail will never work but flying taxis will. It is amazing.

[Will]

27 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

I think this transit system plan is for the next 5, 10, 15 years. Sure what we have now might be adequate with a few upgrades but it's not going to take Nashville to the next level of mobility and density. 

The problem with the May 1 plan is that there is no "next level" in terms of mobility. Look at the route map - there is no meaningful expansion of the existing MTA route network, and large swathes of the city are still unserved or underserved by transit: Antioch, Woodbine, parts of East and North Nashville. Functionally speaking, and that is the key here, this plan offers no advantage over an upgraded and expanded bus network in terms of moving our existing population or a future larger population around the city. For example, if you want to get from Lockeland Springs to Green Hills, you're still going to have to connect at a single point downtown. The same is true of many other route pairings. I think the single biggest failure of this plan is that it fails to address crosstown travel. Compare, for example, London's bus map. London has a hybrid hub-and-spoke  and grid road system, yet its bus system is designed to facilitate crosstown travel relatively easily across multiple connection points. 

[PaulChinetti]

Well London has had mass transportation a bit longer than us, the Underground opened in 1863!

But those underserved areas need something to connect to, how do you connect more areas to the downtown area. You first have to have that infrastructure in place. So you build the hub, then start connecting spokes to the hub. One can't really come without the other. Unless I misunderstand what you are saying.

I agree with the more cross town travel stuff, but that will come with more density. And density happens when people can get around more easily. Not sure if Lockeland Springs to Green Hills is a good example, I mean even now if you were driving you are going to be going through downtown, or very close to it.

 

[ruraljuror]

33 minutes ago, samsonh said:

I do enjoy hearing how light rail will never work but flying taxis will. It is amazing.

 

Why even bother building out the flying taxi infrastructure when we could simply wait another 30 years and go straight to teleportation?

But seriously, no one who has ever thought about it for more than 10 minutes thinks that flying cars is even remotely a good idea.  We have technology that would enable us all to be flying around in mini helicopters (or giant drones) right now, but there are oh so many reasons that we don't.  

Edited March 14, 2018 by ruraljuror

[BolaKnows]

25 minutes ago, Will said:

For example, if you want to get from Lockeland Springs to Green Hills, you're still going to have to connect at a single point downtown.

I would love an outer ring circular route that runs in both directions.  Berlin is a massive city, space wise, but the ring train route seems immensely useful for getting around the city without having to go to a central station and back out.   I guess that's a battle/proposal for a future plan or extension though.  

 

[markhollin]

Mayor Briley: Without Mass Transit, the city will fail.

"We can do nothing, and there is only so much room on our roads. Traffic will get worse. Businesses will stop coming. Opportunities to advance, opportunities to lift people up will diminish, and our community will not succeed," Briley said. "Unless we invest in ourselves, unless we build out a transit system that supports the kind of city we are going to build in the future with a million new people, we will fail."

Just a week into his term as mayor, Briley said he's already talked with several businesses that are considering opening offices in Nashville, but first want to know how the city plans to overcome its traffic woes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/03/14/mayor-briley-without-mass-transit-nashville-will.html

[grilled_cheese]

So you could frame the argument as "if you're anti-transit you're anti-business".

 

Very nice.

[nashvylle]

the cost of flying taxis would be really cheap too I'm sure. 

[dmillsphoto]

The FAA didn't approve Signature Tower in it's 1,065' form. They're not going to approve of autonomous flying taxies.

[Buildtall]

I wonder if we will get tons of trash along the light rail lines like we have along our roadways so everyone will still know they are still in Trashville.  I wish the city and state would do something to stop all the litter along our roads. If the city would start writing littering tickets they could pay for the transit plan.    

Sorry I had to get that off my chest.   I drive around Davidson county for my job every day and just get tired of all the garbage. I can only imagine what tourist think about how nasty it is here. Wasn’t sure where to post this but since it is transportation related I put it here.

Our taxi drivers are terrible drivers can you imagine them flying

Edited March 15, 2018 by Buildtall

[PaulChinetti]

hub.nashville.gov

Is great for reporting problems @Buildtall. I reported lights out and they were fixed within 2 days.

[SoundScan]

The noise pollution alone should eliminate the idea of flying vehicles. Imagine the sound of a single plane or helicopter, then multiply by hundreds or thousands buzzing around everywhere. Sounds like a nightmare*.

*pun intended

 

[BnaBreaker]

Yeah,  I think Mark Bloom has gotten a little too into Altered Carbon on Netflix. 

[musiczealot]

On 3/14/2018 at 10:17 AM, BolaKnows said:

I would love an outer ring circular route that runs in both directions.  Berlin is a massive city, space wise, but the ring train route seems immensely useful for getting around the city without having to go to a central station and back out.   I guess that's a battle/proposal for a future plan or extension though.  

 

I get that it would be a ton of money, but would be great if they did some sort of BRT/LRT loop that connected the farthest out stations for BRT/LRT to each other.  I think it would essentially mirror OHB.  And if we are living in my dream world, let's throw a inner loop trolley line in as wellthat mirrors Wedgewood.

 

I would think that would make a regional transit system much more attractive and effective as well.  Someone coming from Franklin on rail could connect at a I65/OHB station and go to the airport or West Nashville and not need to connect at downtown tunnel.

 

A guy can dream.

[AronG]

A lot of people on here are cynical about all these whiz bang developing transportation options, but to me they're totally plausible, as long as you caveat that they become increasingly less relevant in higher density areas. It's a joke to bring up flying cars in the context of mass transit; I haven't seen any rendition that could scale up beyond a lower suburban level of density. But that doesn't mean it's all 100% hype. Between the improving battery and guidance tech, and the massive flows of development money that Amazon, Google, et al are throwing at it, autonomous flying drones do seem reasonably likely to become yet another player in the bizarre and unimaginable future transportation landscape (e.g. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/flying-taxis-backed-by-larry-page-could-come-to-new-zealand-in-3-years/). What are development patterns even going to look like 20 or 30 years from now? And I'm fascinated by what the social implications are going to be.

In urban places, a lot of the new tech seems like it'll be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. A large segment of the population will continue to pursue dense and walkable living spaces where you interact with your community frequently and spontaneously. Nothing proposed so far will be more efficient at moving thousands of people around in limited spaces than sidewalks and large, shared vehicles.  Millions of people are still going to ride the subway to work every day in NY. Autonomous/shared cars will hopefully bring down space wasted for parking and make it easier and cheaper to live in outer neighborhoods without owning a car. Electric bikes/"personal mobility" options may start to make up a significant piece of the pie (this is happening in Europe). Nothing earth-shattering or unrecognizable.

In non-urban areas, on the other hand, it seems like there's potential for some wild changes. A lot of the proposed tech makes more sense in low density areas and removes friction on medium distance (10-200 miles) travel. Middle class people who aspire to live on a big piece of land separated from surrounding development are going to be able to plausibly live further and further away from employment and retail centers. How far will people be willing to commute if they can work while they're driving? Autonomous cars on the road will conceivably open up maybe 30 more miles along the interstates for sprawl. If suburban/exurban areas make provision for flying drones over the next decades though, that could go up to 100 or 200 miles. Why live on a crammed-in 1/2 acre lot in Murfreesboro when you can have 3 acres in the new farm-themed subdivision outside Bell Buckle and take a flying drone from your front yard directly to the landing pad at your suburban office park in La Vergne? Or for that matter buy 20 acres halfway to Memphis.

Edited March 15, 2018 by AronG

[markhollin]

Could you imagine "No Tax for Interstates?"

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/03/16/opinion-could-you-imagine-no-tax-for-interstates.html

[PaulChinetti]

Think of Zeppelins! That's the real future, not interstates, wake up sheeple!

[KJHburg]

Meanwhile in Charlotte today we opened our latest 9 mile stretch of light rail.  Here is a summary article talking about development at each of the stations ending at the Univ. of NC at Charlotte. 

https://www.bisnow.com/charlotte/news/construction-development/development-popping-up-like-weeds-along-charlottes-light-rail-opening-this-week-85974  We have 18 miles from southwest Charlotte through downtown to northeast Charlotte and the campus.  

[PaulChinetti]

"The latest piece of the LYNX Light Rail has not even opened to the public yet, and it is already all anyone is talking about. Developers have rushed in to stake claims at stations all up and down the extension, with the stations closest to Center City in particular already showing a large increase in density.

This time around, developers do not seem skeptical. Already, $500M has been spent in new development along the extension — and the train is not yet moving."

Yes please, DENSITY!

 

[MLBrumby]

I said after the AMP failed that the city should have rerouted an alternate plan around West End that would completely bypass Beaman's car lots and the one across the street and in time it would have made them comparably less valuable than property along the routes. This plan does some of that by avoiding West End. I suggested Hayes street at the time up to 21st and then thru Music Row to Division. 

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

I said after the AMP failed that the city should have rerouted an alternate plan around West End that would completely bypass Beaman's car lots and the one across the street and in time it would have made them comparably less valuable than property along the routes. This plan does some of that by avoiding West End. I suggested Hayes street at the time up to 21st and then thru Music Row to Division. 

Has anyone else noticed that as alternative solutions by NoTax4Tracks is "bus rapid transit"?

[Neigeville2]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Meanwhile in Charlotte today we opened our latest 9 mile stretch of light rail.  Here is a summary article talking about development at each of the stations ending at the Univ. of NC at Charlotte. 

https://www.bisnow.com/charlotte/news/construction-development/development-popping-up-like-weeds-along-charlottes-light-rail-opening-this-week-85974  We have 18 miles from southwest Charlotte through downtown to northeast Charlotte and the campus.  

I am intensely jealous.

[KJHburg]

Not me but someone here in Charlotte rode our entire light rail line starting at the new terminus UNC Charlotte all the way through uptown Charlotte to the south terminus at South Blvd I-485 and videoed it . It is 58 minutes from end to end but believe me in rush hour it would take more than that.   The first 30 minutes of this video shows the new extension that opened on Friday.  You can see all the construction of new apartments along the line even through our downtown (sorry all the big high rises were on the right and this was taken from the left hand side of the train going south)  Note how the line crosses over major intersections over bridges.  Only 3 cities in the southeast have rail transit now and I guess the question is will Nashville join us?  However NC will have a 2nd system in Durham and Chapel Hill that is working through all the approvals and planning now.    Buckle your seatbelt and enjoy your ride through the Queen City