The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Bos2Nash]

On 4/17/2018 at 7:00 AM, AronG said:

It would be very unusual if no federal grants were received for a project of this size, which would stretch across several administrations. Councilman Elrod did address this unlikely scenario though, with the boring and predictable answer that some of the elements would be delayed for a few years until the sales tax revenue came in to fund them.

I have been curious about this as well. Granted the Trump Administration promised alot of infrastructure spending and nothing has been approved (that I know of). Once this plan passes there will probably be a number of significant changes most likely. Looking over the Tennessean article (link below) there is a line item for 2.5 billion in Bonds. Granted I have not the slightest clue what Bonds actually are (general debt/line of credit type stuff?), but it would not shock me if the county pursues some federal assistance to help lower that number.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/10/17/how-5-2-billion-proposed-transit-system-would-funded/770587001/

[Pdt2f]

Lots and lots of pro transit and very few anti transit signs in Hillsboro village, Belmont-Hillsboro, and Hillsboro-Richland. Obviously. I think this one will be won or lost in the “peripheries” - Madison, Bordeaux, Bellevue, donelson, hermitage, Antioch, etc. 

[PaulChinetti]

Well that's a nice little get. 

[Bos2Nash]

That could be huge!! hopefully it opens the eyes of some otherwise stubborn business owners

[PaulChinetti]

One can only hope. 

And hopefully those people didn't already vote.

[Rockatansky]

On 4/18/2018 at 10:23 AM, PaulChinetti said:

Some of the largest voting areas so far. 

Is this based on where the voters live? Or where they voted? For example, I voted at the Fulton Campus, but live in East Nashville. Would my vote be assigned to downtown or East Nash in this analysis?

On 4/16/2018 at 10:10 PM, volsfanwill said:

whole duck

Yesterday I saw an ad from Porter Road Butcher featuring whole ducks.

[PaulChinetti]

Nothing fancy I just took the list from here and put it on a map. But I would think the majority of people vote close to where they live, just an assumption.

http://www.nashville.gov/Election-Commission/Voters/Early-Voting-In-Person.aspx

 

[Rockatansky]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

Nothing fancy I just took the list from here and put it on a map. But I would think the majority of people vote close to where they live, just an assumption.

http://www.nashville.gov/Election-Commission/Voters/Early-Voting-In-Person.aspx

 

Thanks. I assumed it was based on voting location, but wasn't certain.

[markhollin]

Nice summary piece from Nashville Business Journal:

"Your time, your taxes, your vote: A guide to Nashville's transit debate"

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/04/19/your-time-taxes-vote-a-guide-to-transit-debate.html

[PaulChinetti]

Just had a pro-transit canvasser come to my door. Maybe they are starting to ramp up their efforts. 

[markhollin]

Why The Tennessean endorses the Pro Transit Plan.  Great editorial with lots of good talking points.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2018/04/20/nashville-transit-plan-bold-step-forward/532622002/

[PaulChinetti]

The comments on Tennessean articles never fail to entertain/make me feel sad. 

"poorly conceived, poorly developed" They talked to thousands of peoples over YEARS. I mean how else do you want a plan this large to come into being?

Ugh, I had to reply.

[WebberThomas4]

If I hear boondoggle one more time...

[MagicPotato]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

The comments on Tennessean articles never fail to entertain/make me feel sad. 

"poorly conceived, poorly developed" They talked to thousands of peoples over YEARS. I mean how else do you want a plan this large to come into being?

Ugh, I had to reply.

 

Just now, WebberThomas4 said:

If I hear boondoggle one more time...

What the heck is a boondoggle?  Has he seen the fairgrounds lately?  It looks like walking dead was film there. The stadium will help out development in that area. That's better than having a desolate landscape with a race track in the middle.  

[PaulChinetti]

"Our response: The immediate gains will improve the transit system and provide options. The downtown tunnel is in response to the fact that downtown streets cannot be widened and allows tourists and employees to avoid the ever-more congested roadways in downtown. Also, this is not a traffic congestion plan and never was one. This is a transit plan, which provides alternatives to congestion, which is growing because more people are moving to Nashville every day. That will not abate."

I do wonder what they mean by, this plan not reducing congestion? Because it won't be connected to the outer counties yet?

[12Mouth]

26 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

"Our response: The immediate gains will improve the transit system and provide options. The downtown tunnel is in response to the fact that downtown streets cannot be widened and allows tourists and employees to avoid the ever-more congested roadways in downtown. Also, this is not a traffic congestion plan and never was one. This is a transit plan, which provides alternatives to congestion, which is growing because more people are moving to Nashville every day. That will not abate."

I do wonder what they mean by, this plan not reducing congestion? Because it won't be connected to the outer counties yet?

Generally, transit does not significantly reduce congestion. It provides an alternative. Even if you pull cars off of the road, they will likely be replaced by other cars.

[DMilner]

48 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

If I hear boondoggle one more time...

Ha, I said this exact thing to my wife last night. 

[Pdt2f]

2 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

What the heck is a boondoggle?  Has he seen the fairgrounds lately?  It looks like walking dead was film there. The stadium will help out development in that area. That's better than having a desolate landscape with a race track in the middle.  

A boondoggle is a government project that is a bottomless pit of public money, something that becomes a huge factor in the financial bottom line of a city/state. So, for instance, although New York City has great public transit, it could be called a boondoggle because the pension plan for the transit workers is always deep in the red and thus sucks up the majority of public transit spending, including the post-Sandy federal dollars they got for repairs and updates to their system. 

[Will]

Those of you who intend to vote for the plan should consider some of the thoughtful viewpoints brought up in the town hall that NPT held this week: http://video.wnpt.org/video/3011623338/

Specifically:

• The role of Transit-Oriented Development zones in this plan
• Land acquisition issues (such as how there seems to be a rail station slated for the site of First Baptist Church of East Nashville, which is on the Natl Register)
• Dearth of data on environmental impact of construction and operation
• Carrying costs of the debt alone - roughly $240m per year, which, assuming tripled ridership, works out to $12 per RIDE. 

Also note how the representatives from the city tend to talk around residents' questions and shift responsibility elsewhere.  For example, Steve Bland of MTA seemed unaware of the First Baptist Church conceptual station site issue and framed it as a misinformation issue. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Will
Update

[PaulChinetti]

Is there a resource somewhere that shows all the different people/communities/groups that the transit plan people meet with?

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, Will said:

Those of you who intend to vote for the plan should consider some of the thoughtful viewpoints brought up in the town hall that NPT held this week: http://video.wnpt.org/video/3011623338/

Specifically:

• The role of Transit-Oriented Development zones in this plan
• Land acquisition issues (such as how there seems to be a rail station slated for the site of First Baptist Church of East Nashville, which is on the Natl Register)
• Dearth of data on environmental impact of construction and operation
• Carrying costs of the debt alone - roughly $240m per year, which, assuming tripled ridership, works out to $12 per RIDE. 

Also note how the representatives from the city tend to talk around residents' questions and shift responsibility elsewhere.  For example, Steve Bland of MTA seemed unaware of the First Baptist Church conceptual station site issue and framed it as a misinformation issue. 

I will address the costs of the debt: first off the maximum debt service is $226 million a year, and that starts in 2040.  That is when amortization starts, until then the amount is less and it is interest only.  In present day dollars that is $146 million a year assuming 2% inflation. I think we all believe ridership in 2040 will be more than triple what it is today compared to our sad system today.  

 

Also, these are revenue bonds, not GOs. Very important difference for those concerned about the city being caught up in debt. 

 

The video has a woman that is concerned about citizens' asthma from the environment. More cars would definitely not help your asthma! The argument against the TOD zones is that we do not have the density and NIMBYism. We will have the density if the pace of development continues.  I am sure that the plan now will evolve over time and the transit rep explains exactly this. You are misrepresenting this video a great deal.  This plan will cost the average citizen not much at all and will benefit those of lower income the most. 

 

I am certain EPA studies will be done over time, but much of this development is happening on existing roads. Not much in terms of studies need to be done there. The arguments against this plan fall apart quickly when you look at actual numbers and arguments. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by samsonh

[Bos2Nash]

6 hours ago, WebberThomas4 said:

If I hear boondoggle one more time...

[PaulChinetti]

I did it and I knew I shouldn't have, now it's just a person with a Facebook account that was made in April of this year, being negative all over the Tennesseans comments. I tried to fight the good fight ha. 

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, Will said:

Those of you who intend to vote for the plan should consider some of the thoughtful viewpoints brought up in the town hall that NPT held this week: http://video.wnpt.org/video/3011623338/

Specifically:

• The role of Transit-Oriented Development zones in this plan
• Land acquisition issues (such as how there seems to be a rail station slated for the site of First Baptist Church of East Nashville, which is on the Natl Register)
• Dearth of data on environmental impact of construction and operation
• Carrying costs of the debt alone - roughly $240m per year, which, assuming tripled ridership, works out to $12 per RIDE. 

Also note how the representatives from the city tend to talk around residents' questions and shift responsibility elsewhere.  For example, Steve Bland of MTA seemed unaware of the First Baptist Church conceptual station site issue and framed it as a misinformation issue. 

The $12 per RIDE comment is a tough one to even approach. As unfortunate as this may sound, public transit IS NOT PROFITABLE. Cities do not build transit systems to make a profit or break even. If anything they are money holes because of the constant investment and maintenance that is required for them. They are an essential system for a top tier, highly dense city which is where Nashville is heading. 

[markhollin]

The dark money influencing the negative views on the Transit vote.

Metropolitik: Dark Days in the Transit Debate

Who is funding opposition to the transit plan? We may never know.

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/columns/article/21001176/metropolitik-dark-days-in-the-transit-debate