The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[BnaBreaker]

I, too, appreciate outside the box thinking, and I am not trying to dismiss the gondola idea outright, because as I said, I think it could play a role in a larger, more comprehensive transit system.  But again, there is a reason that the only towns/cities to implement these on a large scale are ones that are literally built into mountain sides.  And yes, they do work well as a low cost option for poor cities featuring a lot of steep grades, but they don't have other options, and the "success" of these systems is being measured relative to what was there before transit wise, which was nothing.  So, I am certainly open to any information to the contrary, but for now at least, I stand by my opinion that gondolas are not a good option as the primary feature of any transit system for your average city.  

Edited May 9, 2018 by BnaBreaker

[PruneTracy]

4 minutes ago, satalac said:

Not if you get the builder of this ski lift to build the gondolas. Look how fast they can unload!

I like how the centrifugal force slings the riders out of the seats as they go around the bullwheel, thus automatically clearing them for loading the next passengers. That's just good design.

[smeagolsfree]

Cease and desist order from Metro about scooters. HaHA HA HAHAHAHAHAH!

 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/05/09/nashville-tells-bird-scooter-service-cease-and-desist-after-two-days/594466002/

[Guest]

Bwaahahahhahhaha

I have NEVER witnessed Metro move this fast on ANYTHING. A scooter must have bumped into the wrong person.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/05/09/nashville-tells-bird-scooter-service-cease-and-desist-after-two-days/594466002/

[satalac]

1 minute ago, PruneTracy said:

I like how the centrifugal force slings the riders out of the seats as they go around the bullwheel, thus automatically clearing them for loading the next passengers. That's just good design.

It's efficiency at its finest. 

[NashvilleObserver]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I will open a pizza joint in one of them and call it Pie in the Sky, because that is what this is... pure cheese and will be more of a tourist attraction rather than a true form of transportation.

Exactly. This seems really gimmicky, or something for show, rather than for moving thousands of people rapidly through a city of millions. 

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, NashvilleObserver said:

Exactly. This seems really gimmicky, or something for show, rather than for moving thousands of people rapidly through a city of millions. 

Well, you see how well that concept went down May 1.

[NashvilleObserver]

17 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

But again, there is a reason that the only towns/cities to implement these on a large scale are ones that are literally built into mountains.  And yes, they do work well as a low cost option for poor cities featuring a lot of steep grades, but they don't have other options, and the "success" of these systems is being measured relative to what was there before transit wise, which was nothing.  

I agree. La Paz, Bolivia.... Medellin and Cali, Colombia.... Caracas, Venezuela.... Algeria... why are we attempting to emulate the transit system of mountainous lower-income cities? 

Also, Oakland and LA's proposals for a gondola system are literally just for point-to-point links to tourist attractions (The Dodgers Stadium)

The research conducted from Austin's proposal sums this up perfectly "gondolas are best suited for specific projects, and not as a component to a mass-transit system."

[PruneTracy]

3 minutes ago, NashvilleObserver said:

I agree. La Paz, Bolivia.... Medellin and Cali, Colombia.... Caracas, Venezuela.... Algeria... why are we attempting to emulate the transit system of mountainous lower-income cities?

This argument also shows up often against BRT, which was pioneered in Curitiba, and of which the most successful implementations have been in Latin America and Southeast Asia.

I've said this on here before, but without opening up a political can of worms, the only substantial difference between American cities and the Bogotas and Jakartas of the world is the ability to float enough debt to maintain first-world trappings.

I say, if it works from a practical and financial standpoint, then it works. Doesn't matter much who else is or isn't using it.

[SoundScan]

Aerial tramways (gondolas) simply don’t make sense as a transportation solution except in rare edge cases (extreme grades) or for tourism. They move too slowly and lack enough capacity to handle surges during commuting hours—when they are most likely to be used. Some are comparing the experience to a traditional ski lift system, but those are almost all point to point systems, so the possibility of cab after cab being full as they arrive at mid-span stations is not an issue. The single cab capacity is also a huge drawback, as large families and groups would likely have to split up into separate cabs during busy/commute hours.

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, Flatrock said:

Today's Wired article on why Nashville's transit referendum failed. If you can make it past the somewhat patronizing tone, it's a pretty good read.

https://www.wired.com/story/nashville-transit-referendum-vote-plan/

 

"New York City loses about a dollar for every ride it serves, making it among the most efficient. Seattle, which has about the same population as Nashville but greater density, loses about $4 per ride."

This was quite the topic of our discussion here, but also interesting because the argument is made that the transit system couldn't be self-sustaining.

[AronG]

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/five-breakthroughs-that-could-make-you-love-the-bus/559832/

[nashvylle]

That trackless train would be awesome

[satalac]

25 minutes ago, AronG said:

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/five-breakthroughs-that-could-make-you-love-the-bus/559832/

And look at what city has been photo shopped in the background...

[e-dub]

HAH!

 

Also, I've been taking the bus lately... and I feel like an utter moron for not doing so earlier. I use it on the weekends, when I don't really have time constraints to worry about, but I love it. Easy ingress/egress, relatively quiet, comfortable and I DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE. I'm about 150 feet from a stop on the 30 route now, which goes directly downtown. I'll be moving across the river to non-East Nashville (wooooooo hoo!!), but will have to walk about mile to get to a stop on the 15 that goes directly downtown. It's been a great experience for me, and I've been pushing everyone I know to use the bus system - all of us prefer to not drive when given the option.

[PaulChinetti]

Does transit have to make money for the city?

Schools, the Fire Department and Police don't.

[Hey_Hey]

2 hours ago, SoundScan said:

Aerial tramways (gondolas) simply don’t make sense as a transportation solution except in rare edge cases (extreme grades) or for tourism. They move too slowly and lack enough capacity to handle surges during commuting hours—when they are most likely to be used. Some are comparing the experience to a traditional ski lift system, but those are almost all point to point systems, so the possibility of cab after cab being full as they arrive at mid-span stations is not an issue. The single cab capacity is also a huge drawback, as large families and groups would likely have to split up into separate cabs during busy/commute hours.

I would challenge you to  calculate the time difference between commutes using bus or BRT arriving every 15 minutes and gondolas arriving every 30 seconds for any two points in Nashville.  Put pen to paper and see where BRT is consistently the better alternative when considering cost.  

Take these for example: Green Hills mall, Five Points, Nashville Zoo, Metro Center, the Airport, and Maryland Farms.  My suspicion is that only Maryland Farms would be faster by bus. I also suspect that the airport would be roughly break even.  Everything else would favor the gondola over tradition buses for the rest by a substantial margin and would be roughly equivalent for BRT (likely slower if you didn't have to wait on the BRT to arrive and likely faster if you had to wait more than 5 minutes for the BRT to arrive). 

I have also ridden the #7 bus numerous times from Green Hills, through Hillsboro Village, and into downtown in both morning rush hour and evening rush hour, and I've never seen a situation in which two gondolas couldn't pick up every single patient waiting to board the bus. 

[Hey_Hey]

47 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Does transit have to make money for the city?

Schools, the Fire Department and Police don't.

I would say "no".  At least on paper.  The reality is that schools, fire protection, and police don't "make" money, but none of us can make any money without them either. So in a sense, they do make money.  That being said, it needs to be reasonable. We can't bust a budget on mass transit. In my mind, it should make up a similar percentage of the budget as fire and police do and somewhere below education. 

[PaulChinetti]

Excellent point @hey_Hey

At some point the time spent it traffic and people not at their jobs, aka money lost,  will start to hurt so much that something will have to be done, I guess we aren't there yet. 

I think that's why so many companies were behind transit, they realize they need people actually in the office to be productive. 

[smeagolsfree]

The Nimbys will go crazy with the Gondola idea, just like the folks in Green Hills when they wanted to build Vertis taller. They can see in my back yard. That's a private area and I don't want a crook scoping out my house.  Of course most of these people have no idea we can see their house on Google Earth or some creep is flying a drone outside their bedroom window. 

[KJHburg]

will transit be the final key to getting Amazon's HQ2? this article from Costar discusses it http://www.costar.com/News/Article/The-Transit-Factor-in-Amazons-HQ2-Selection-Reflects-Transportations-Growing-Economic-Development-Clout/200841

[e-dub]

A surface "F5" for the Music City Central:

 

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/overdue-renovation-comes-nashvilles-downtown-bus-station#stream/0

[grilled_cheese]

21 minutes ago, e-dub said:

A surface "F5" for the Music City Central:

 

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/overdue-renovation-comes-nashvilles-downtown-bus-station#stream/0

From the comments section:

Old Hickory • 40 minutes ago

The Music City Central is a conveyor belt that delivers concentrated danger to downtown. The entire facility is a cesspool that should have never been constructed where it is located today. It's actually nothing more than a Nashville stick in the eye at the foot of Tennessee's capitol hill. The bus terminal is a dangerous crime filled building where one murder has already occurred and it should be demolished. The problems surrounding the bus garage will only become worse if the 8 story homeless hotel is constructed across the street. At least both will be across the street from the new jail.

 

And you guys get upset when I talk crap to the people that downvoted the transit plan!

[e-dub]

Yes, that's some strong "those people"ing. 

[samsonh]

8 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

From the comments section:

Old Hickory • 40 minutes ago

The Music City Central is a conveyor belt that delivers concentrated danger to downtown. The entire facility is a cesspool that should have never been constructed where it is located today. It's actually nothing more than a Nashville stick in the eye at the foot of Tennessee's capitol hill. The bus terminal is a dangerous crime filled building where one murder has already occurred and it should be demolished. The problems surrounding the bus garage will only become worse if the 8 story homeless hotel is constructed across the street. At least both will be across the street from the new jail.

 

And you guys get upset when I talk crap to the people that downvoted the transit plan!

These people have votes, but their opinions are worthless.  But this sentiment is present in quite a few people on this very board.