The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[PaulChinetti]

19 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

From the comments section:

Old Hickory • 40 minutes ago

The bus terminal is a dangerous crime filled building where one murder has already occurred and it should be demolished.

So everywhere there is a murder we should just tear it down! 

It would leave empty lots all over the county, ripe for redevelopment!

[rookzie]

On 5/10/2018 at 1:08 PM, PaulChinetti said:

So everywhere there is a murder we should just tear it down! 

It would leave empty lots all over the county, ripe for redevelopment!

Imagine the ramifications and repercussions of eliminating NY Penn (actually at the Penn Sta. subway at 34th St.), after a Nov. 2015 triple shooting and murder.   That effectively would end all passenger rail service east of Chicago, except for a few non-NY Intercity trains to GCT (Grand Central Terminal) and to WUS (Washington Union Sta.), and to Buffalo, not to mention the network of subway and multi-state commuter runs associated with NYPenn.  It wasn't the first and it won't be the last.

Not happenin'...

Edited May 12, 2018 by rookzie

[rookzie]

22 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Excellent point @hey_Hey

At some point the time spent it traffic and people not at their jobs, aka money lost,  will start to hurt so much that something will have to be done, I guess we aren't there yet. 

I think that's why so many companies were behind transit, they realize they need people actually in the office to be productive. 

That "we aren't  there yet just might be the case, if not actually, in consideration of the comparative nightmare gridlock in otherbut larger cities.

But therein lies most of the sentiment toward being reactive rather than proactive, unlike what actions some other cities undertook during the 1980s and '90s (and even much more recently) ─ locales that were then still mid-sized.  While they might not have actually built that early, indeed they DID make some tangible progress toward coherent preparation, in some instances by integrating future transit provisions within the roadway infrastructure, rather than to comeback and attempt to impose one on the other.

[CenterHill]

1 hour ago, grilled_cheese said:

From the comments section:

Old Hickory • 40 minutes ago

The Music City Central is a conveyor belt that delivers concentrated danger to downtown. The entire facility is a cesspool that should have never been constructed where it is located today. It's actually nothing more than a Nashville stick in the eye at the foot of Tennessee's capitol hill. The bus terminal is a dangerous crime filled building where one murder has already occurred and it should be demolished. The problems surrounding the bus garage will only become worse if the 8 story homeless hotel is constructed across the street. At least both will be across the street from the new jail.

 

Ridiculous and misinformed.      And to another comment, while we do have a range of views on this board, I don't really hear this kind of talk, thankfully.    Most views on UP tend to be quite critical of such myopic hyperbole.  

[smeagolsfree]

Well I guess I will just have to give you a big Bless Your Misguided Heart on that comment. Through the baby out with the bathwater. I would not want all those folks coming in from Belle Meade and ruining the neighborhood.

[NashvilleObserver]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:50 PM, e-dub said:

Yes, that's some strong "those people"ing. 

Yes, that's a strong opinion that reeks of small-mindedness, but it's not entirely untrue.

"Your sources?" .....Here's a link referencing one of the more high profile incidents from last year https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2017/11/07/metro-officer-injured-breaking-up-downtown-fight-involving-juveniles/841950001/ Of course it doesn't need to be torn down; thats just silliness. I am actually excited for the upgrades to make the terminal a more welcoming place. 

And yes, "this can happen anywhere, not just at Music City Central" but it does seem to be a concentrated area for rowdiness. Also, I live in the area, walking around frequently, and that block seems to be a raucous gathering area at all times of the day. I personally have been shouted at, followed, bumped out of the way, etc. It has nothing to do with a "those people" mentality when it's just fact. Much like the Church Street Park, something really needs to be done about the area.

Edited May 11, 2018 by NashvilleObserver

[e-dub]

I get it, it's an area where that type of thing is more apt to happen but the hyperbole that worked on "Old Hickory" is being perpetuated by him and it's irritating. I think a lot of people completely miss the fact that it's a city, not a homogenous subdivision. There's a decent chance you're going to be around people of a different tax bracket, social standing, education level, etc. How you react to that goes a long way to your perceived experience in a city, IMO.

 

Also, I lived a block over from Church Street Park for a few years and I was never bothered when I walked through (which was at least four times a week). When I get back downtown, i'll be close to that park again and will continue to use the bus... but I know and accept what my surroundings will be. It's just a part of living in the city.

[Pdt2f]

I think a lot of the rowdiness happens when metro middle and high school students take the bus downtown to connect and use the opportunity to “settle” disputes. A few times over the past few years it was brawls involving metro high school students that kind of spilled throughout the terminal and involved police action. Driving past for several days after those incidents there was a heightened police presence - 3 or 4 officers posted at each of the corners around the terminal and a few of them patrolling on foot inside of it. I don’t really think it’s a bus terminal issue, and the idea that they should shut down the terminal because of it is absurd, it’s a metro schools/social media “beefs” issue. 

[NashvilleObserver]

22 minutes ago, e-dub said:

I think a lot of people completely miss the fact that it's a city, not a homogenous subdivision. There's a decent chance you're going to be around people of a different tax bracket, social standing, education level, etc. How you react to that goes a long way to your perceived experience in a city, IMO.

... but I know and accept what my surroundings will be. It's just a part of living in the city.

I completely agree. I love that Nashville is a mixture of all types, that's what makes it such a great city. And to be honest, throughout all of my encounters travelling or commuting downtown I have never felt truly unsafe, maybe just annoyed and uncomfortable. But whatever... that really is just a part of city living. You can experience the same in the NYC Subway, LA streets, and especially on the Paris Metro. But I see how visitors from other areas can perceive this as "scary" and weird, but that's why travel, local and worldwide, is such a great equalizer that everyone needs to experience.  

I hate that there are people who prefer the city to be uniformly homogenous, like some sort of Stepford Wives utopia. Those people need to just discover some far-flung subdivision outside of Franklin (Not referring to Westhaven SPECIFICALLY..... but.....)

Edited May 11, 2018 by NashvilleObserver

[Guest]

^^  Obviously, the outlier opinion of Old Hickory is not mainstream....urban, suburban, or rural.  But we should not conflate criminal behavior with "There's a decent chance you're going to be around people of a different tax bracket, social standing, education level, etc. " These are completely different animals.

Travel is valuable to sharpen perspective and tolerance, yet criminal is criminal is criminal and should never be tolerated. In fact, one of the cliches of urban living is the complete indifference residents have when witnessing criminal behavior ...either against property or another person. In my view there is such a thing as too much tolerance if the outcome is indifference to crime.  As a personal example my sons have utilized the MTA busses for several years together and alone...they can go where they want, when they want with the only stipulation being they are banned from any origin/termination at the Music City Central.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[e-dub]

What's the difference between a trip that starts/ends at Music City Central versus one that transfers through MCC?

[Guest]

Since we live downtown that eventuality never really occurs..they just walk to the first or second stop on a bus route post departure or get off of the bus a stop or two prior to reaching the MCCentral and walk home.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[e-dub]

So what would the difference be between a trip that starts/ends at Music City Central versus one that transfers through MCC, then?

[Guest]

I feel I must be mis-reading your question because the answer is self-evident in the context of my previous post. If one's goal is to avoid the MCCentral then there is no substantial difference between an origin/terminus and a transfer occurring within the MCCentral. To reiterate my point, my boy's are not allowed to get on, get off, or transfer at the MCCentral due to the concentrated number of unsavory, and at times criminal elements.
 

49 minutes ago, e-dub said:

So what would the difference be between a trip that starts/ends at Music City Central versus one that transfers through MCC, then?

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[e-dub]

I see now. I was trying to determine the thinking behind you forbidding them to go through the bus station, the last post clarified it.

[Pdt2f]

2 hours ago, nashville_bound said:

 

^^  Obviously, the outlier opinion of Old Hickory is not mainstream....urban, suburban, or rural.  But we should not conflate criminal behavior with "There's a decent chance you're going to be around people of a different tax bracket, social standing, education level, etc. " These are completely different animals.

Travel is valuable to sharpen perspective and tolerance, yet criminal is criminal is criminal and should never be tolerated. In fact, one of the cliches of urban living is the complete indifference residents have when witnessing criminal behavior ...either against property or another person. In my view there is such a thing as too much tolerance if the outcome is indifference to crime. 

 

Completely agree. Wanting the city to be vigilant about crime, and not tolerating crime in general, is not the same as wanting the city to be completely homogenous in regards to income, race, etc. Laws apply to everyone, and benefit everyone, regardless of accidentals. 

[Pdt2f]

Over the past two days I’ve seen 7 Bird scooters. Every single one of them was going full speed on the sidewalk in highly pedestrian areas (2 in the Music Row roundabout, 1 in Sobro, 2 near 5 Points, 2 in the Gulch on 11th). I saw a very close Bird-pedestrian scare where a guy was walking out of a building on Demonbreun and a girl on a Bird had to swerve, full speed, at the last second to avoid hitting him. I initially thought the cease and desist was one of those piddling government overinvolvement things but the more I see the more I’m convinced it was a wise decision. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

11 hours ago, Pdt2f said:

Over the past two days I’ve seen 7 Bird scooters. Every single one of them was going full speed on the sidewalk in highly pedestrian areas (2 in the Music Row roundabout, 1 in Sobro, 2 near 5 Points, 2 in the Gulch on 11th). I saw a very close Bird-pedestrian scare where a guy was walking out of a building on Demonbreun and a girl on a Bird had to swerve, full speed, at the last second to avoid hitting him. I initially thought the cease and desist was one of those piddling government overinvolvement things but the more I see the more I’m convinced it was a wise decision. 

They are a public nuisance at this point. Does anyone know if the city has any "no bikes on sidewalks" regulations anywhere? 

[Pdt2f]

14 minutes ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

They are a public nuisance at this point. Does anyone know if the city has any "no bikes on sidewalks" regulations anywhere? 

I’m pretty sure that’s the law- no ridden bikes on sidewalks. It may even include skateboards in the ban. I think an electric scooter going 15 mph on a highly activated sidewalk definitely warrants a ban!

[Neigeville2]

28 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

I’m pretty sure that’s the law- no ridden bikes on sidewalks. It may even include skateboards in the ban. I think an electric scooter going 15 mph on a highly activated sidewalk definitely warrants a ban!

There is no law on the state level that prohibits bicycles from being ridden on sidewalks. There are certain local municipalities that place restrictions on bicycles being used on sidewalks. Some may forbid bike riding in their business districts. Other places require a bicyclist to give an audible signal when they pass a person walking on the sidewalk. If a municipality does have restrictions on where bicycles can be ridden on sidewalks, they will provide signs about it that are clearly visible. Some places require a cyclist to dismount and walk their bike through certain areas.

Does anyone know where such signs are posted?

On another matter (tried to make this a separate post but it combines them automatically now, which is irritating):

Remarkably, though, Seattle has not gained more cars in its most congested areas. The number of commuters driving private vehicles downtown has declined by 10 percent since 2010, even as new residents and workers have spiked. By and large, new arrivals are instead choosing to ride the bus.

So it can be done with sufficient investment.  Bus service would have to be enormously more frequent in Nashville to get more people riding.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Neigeville2

[BnaBreaker]

7 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

 

So it can be done with sufficient investment.  Bus service would have to be enormously more frequent in Nashville to get more people riding.

Exactly.  I have heard the argument before from anti-transit folks that there is no point in investing more into our bus system if nobody uses it as it is.  I suppose it is the proverbial chicken/egg argument, but the way I see it, that is precisely the reason we SHOULD be investing in our bus system.  If it is a poorly funded bare bones system that is difficult to use, then of course most people aren't going to use it.  People wouldn't be so gung-ho about Uber either if you had to walk a mile to get to them and they drove you around in an open air rickshaw. 

[grilled_cheese]

My fav is when they bring up an instance where they saw an empty bus at 1030 on a Tuesday.

Yeah, lady, the interstate is pretty empty then too.

[rookzie]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:55 PM, samsonh said:

The intelligent transit plan is so comically bad. Autonomous driving is 10-20 years away.  The city cannot force PSC Metals from their location, plus clean up costs will be high. Double stacking interstates will costs billions and there is no money to maintain current roadways, much less billions to double stack interstates. 

 

On 5/2/2018 at 12:55 PM, dmillsphoto said:

The ITN site you couldn't get to load is the stacked-interstate loop plan that would cost asinine amounts more than what was just voted down...

 

 

[from WKRN.com]
http://www.wkrn.com/news/political-news/diane-black-says-she-has-plan-to-improve-nashvilles-traffic-problems/1169506902

Quote

 

Diane Black says she has plan to improve Nashville's traffic problems

Her plan has several parts, but the biggest would be to double stack the interstate around Nashville.  

Another component of the plan includes completing Interstate 840 north of Nashville so commercial drivers could avoid the city all together.

 

SMH [or rather, SMDH].    "Mother" knows best!.

Edited May 12, 2018 by rookzie

[nashvillwill]

On 5/12/2018 at 9:52 AM, Neigeville2 said:

 

Remarkably, though, Seattle has not gained more cars in its most congested areas. The number of commuters driving private vehicles downtown has declined by 10 percent since 2010, even as new residents and workers have spiked. By and large, new arrivals are instead choosing to ride the bus.

So it can be done with sufficient investment.  Bus service would have to be enormously more frequent in Nashville to get more people riding.

The irony is that Seattle’s light rail system, and downtown tunnel, is the closest example to what was in the transit plan for Nashville. I’ve used it, and it’s exactly what came to mind when I saw the plan for the downtown tunnel.  

I wish the pro-transit people had spent more time focusing on the “vision”, such as showing pictures/video of similar systems (and what could be) and less time on the Koch=bad, Trump=bad campaign they took. I think the biggest obstacle to overcome is educating Nashvillians on what transit really is. I bet 90% of people can only picture Heavy Rail in their mind when they think of transit. Making it a partisan issue is not going to win anyone over. 

[Dale]

Speaking of Seattle, I'll bet they wish they lived in Nashville: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-mega-commuters-we-are-spending-more-time-than-ever-traveling-to-work/