The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Tennessine]

Come on bro, you're better than that. Rooting for people to get priced out is immature.

[bnacincy]

2 hours ago, nashvylle said:

I think the only "go big" idea that would work is if we bought CSX's rail lines... which I know won't happen. 

Don't have to buy em just find a way to get Radnor Yards out of Davidson County and redirect most rail traffic around it so as to free up capacity then you could build park n rides where people can drive to (like the Wilson County line has). Since the majority of downtown workers are from Davidson county you could have park n rides in the Antioch area, Madison, Bellevue, West Meade, a Belle Meade station at the end of Bosley Springs rd and of course a massive one at the current Radnor Yards in addition to suburban park n rides in the surrounding counties.

That seems to me the only viable option to get cars from coming into downtown,

[FromParkAveToTN]

32 minutes ago, nativetenn said:

Come on bro, you're better than that. Rooting for people to get priced out is immature.

You putting words in my mouth? LOL!!! That's cool. I'll take one for the team. 

[Tennessine]

[smeagolsfree]

If they do something, then it needs to be on a smaller scale. Metro will need to work with the State in order to get committed lanes for buses. That will be the cheapest and most efficient way to do a transit plan. 

Metro needs to do BRT from downtown radiating in all directions for about 5 to 7 miles out in every direction on the main routes.

Those routes would be, Nolensville 4th/2nd, Charlotte, Dickerson, Gallatin, Clarksville Pike/DB Todd, Murfreesboro Rd., 8th Ave/Franklin Rd., and the last would have to be West End/ Harding or 21st thru Green Hills. If those folks don't want it then you don't do anything except let them fight their way to work. Its one of those cases where you just say, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".

The RTA needs to do whatever it is they do and get people in and out of downtown Nashville by dedicated bus lanes, train, or rickshaw.

I believe that 5 miles as far as Nashville goes will serve they highest number of riders.  One of the numbers folks on the board can figure out how many people live within that five mile zone. .

After being in Boston I noticed the subway lines don't go that far out, but it serves a lot of people. They do have a lot of commuter rail from the outlying areas. Now I know we are not Boston and we don't need a subway, but a BRT line can serve a lot of folks if done right. THE KEY is we need those dedicated lanes to do it.

[12Mouth]

I agree with you, but I was in a meeting with Freddy and Erin (before she left metro) where they discussed BRT and it sounded like the plan with the state (at least for the failed plan) was going to be to purchase the ROW back from the state for all dedicated lanes, which turns out to not be all that much cheaper than light rail. But creating great frequent BRT service within a small area is a very prudent way to go under normal circumstances. I even think 5-7 miles out is too much right now. Go out west end to 440, Hillsboro to the Hill Center, Gallatin to Eastland, 8th Ave S to 440, etc. Avoid the political battles in Oak Hill and Richland/Cherokee Park. Throw park and rides at the end of each line and let the developers get density along those routes before expanding.

[smeagolsfree]

I pitched that 5 to 7 range out as really being the finished product. We start small and if needed we can expand. My take is they do the highly traveled corridors plus the airport first like the original plan.

Most of those route being east and south with maybe one north route thrown in there, like Dickerson

[Bos2Nash]

5 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

After being in Boston I noticed the subway lines don't go that far out, but it serves a lot of people. They do have a lot of commuter rail from the outlying areas. Now I know we are not Boston and we don't need a subway, but a BRT line can serve a lot of folks if done right. THE KEY is we need those dedicated lanes to do it.

Careful, you're starting to sound like me with crediting Boston 

In all seriousness though, I agree with the dedicated lanes, that is key to moving anything forwards. When it comes to what technology is used, it should start out as bus for sure, but the ROW should be purchased with the foresight of expansion in mind so that as demand and population grows a "Phase II" could be implemented to carry more people. i.e. Light rail trains. One of the lesser known lines in Boston is the Silver Line and it technically has a "Phase III" to convert a large portion of it to light rail (not that it will ever happen unfortunately). Planning a system that serves the current city is imperative to the continued success. Planning a system that serves the city now with expansion and future growth is crucial to the systems long term success.

[smeagolsfree]

Lets see how good my memory is. The Silver line was the airport and the Amtrak connections.

I was mostly on the Red however I did venture a little ways on the Green. I was going to take the Blue from the Aquarium area to the Park Street Station but decided to walk. The Park street Station is the one I used most of the time.

[Dale]

17 hours ago, FromParkAveToTN said:

Once the baby boomers are out of political office and housing cost has pushed those who complained about the tax increase out if Davidson county,  maybe we'll finally get the transit system the green light to move forward.

Will the Amazon coup likely accelerate certain transit improvements ?

[smeagolsfree]

I really doubt it. Nashville has a bit of a budget shortfall because they reappraised everyone's property but granted too many waivers. There has been a lot of stupid moves in Nashville as of late and a transit plan is not in the stars for a while. The soccer deal pretty much made sure of that in the arena of public opinion.If you go up on taxes either by reappraisal or a % increase it should stand for all except seniors who have a freeze on taxes.

If that had happened they may have been able to do something. I think they will try to get a much smaller plan passed during Briley's second term if he wins.

[titanhog]

Now is the perfect time for Nashville to think outside of the box.  We've tried a couple of times to get the community on board with what is deemed as "current or past" modes of public transportation.  But...in many ways, Nashville is a clean slate.  It's a golden opportunity for the "it city", with its growing business ventures (with some of the world's biggest "names" involved)...people moving here in droves...and condos and hotels popping up everywhere...to come up with something different and fresh for the 21st Century.  Think ahead of the curve.  

Surely there are some mass transportation ideas out there that are different than the "same ol' same ol"...right?

[nashvylle]

20 hours ago, Dale said:

Yeah, AMP went down because not big enough. Transit went down because not small enough. Maybe try BRT again.

I think AMP went down because it was located on West End Ave and next to Beaman Automotive (AKA NIMBY Land). 

If The Amp went from east Nashville and down Charlotte... I think it would have passed. 

[Dale]

4 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I think AMP went down because it was located on West End Ave and next to Beaman Automotive (AKA NIMBY Land). 

If The Amp went from east Nashville and down Charlotte... I think it would have passed. 

And Gallitan is not considered true BRT ? Come to think of it, few of the BRTs out there are true BRT, more like express buses that look BRT-ish.

[nashvylle]

1 minute ago, Dale said:

And Gallitan is not considered true BRT ? Come to think of it, few of the BRTs out there are true BRT, more like express buses that look BRT-ish.

Gallatin is BRT lite. 

[Dale]

Just now, nashvylle said:

Gallatin is BRT lite. 

Gotcha

[12Mouth]

27 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I think AMP went down because it was located on West End Ave and next to Beaman Automotive (AKA NIMBY Land). 

If The Amp went from east Nashville and down Charlotte... I think it would have passed. 

Remember, the AMP didn't even go up for a vote because the state created a law effectively banning it, so there was nothing to pass. Yes, Beaman was actively against this (and is well connected at the state level), but I think the chief lobbyists fighting the plan through legislation would have done so regardless. This was an important small battle in a much larger national war on public transit.

[MidTenn1]

22 hours ago, nashvylle said:

zero discussions going on from what I know.

Unfortunately it will be 5 years minimum for the next referendum in my opinion. 

The referendum was required because there was a tax increase involved as I recall. Seems like they could do something within the means of the current tax base and on City streets without the need for a referendum.

The city proposed a trolley down Commerce Street and across the rail yards to the Tennessean/Highwoods site during the AHQ2 recruitment process, so I guess there is the possibility of starting a limited line and scope. 

[trillhaslam]

20 hours ago, bnacincy said:

Don't have to buy em just find a way to get Radnor Yards out of Davidson County and redirect most rail traffic around it so as to free up capacity then you could build park n rides where people can drive to (like the Wilson County line has). Since the majority of downtown workers are from Davidson county you could have park n rides in the Antioch area, Madison, Bellevue, West Meade, a Belle Meade station at the end of Bosley Springs rd and of course a massive one at the current Radnor Yards in addition to suburban park n rides in the surrounding counties.

That seems to me the only viable option to get cars from coming into downtown,

I still don't understand why this hasn't been the priority. Utilizing the existing rail presence seems to be the cheapest/most effective option here. Though I was all in on the last transit plan, it's hard to ignore how much better the coverage would be with a system that already travels through many high-traffic areas. 

Though I'm not sure how true it is, I had heard CSX was operating at capacity anyway and would realistically need to look into relocating their operations at Radnor.

[smeagolsfree]

Welcome to the forum trillhaslam.

Unfortunately there is nothing Metro or even the State can do or offer CSX to make them give on anything as they are protected by Federal Law.

Rookzy, is our train expert in residence here and he can tell us anything we need to know about the RR.

 

[bnacincy]

52 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Welcome to the forum trillhaslam.

Unfortunately there is nothing Metro or even the State can do or offer CSX to make them give on anything as they are protected by Federal Law.

Rookzy, is our train expert in residence here and he can tell us anything we need to know about the RR.

 

You have to make it worth their while.....which could be expensive but not as expensive as the proposal that failed the referendum.

Bigger bang for your buck, too.

Welcome to the forum trillhaslam!

[e-dub]

Your username is fantastic, @trillhaslam    

[Dale]

After Amazon it should be #ThankHaslem

[Guest]

Serious question....

‘I like this Briley ‘plan’ to work with existing funding to improve transportation in Davidson County. The question is why did we not do this years ago? I mean one of the reason the 9 billion transit vote failed is people like me knew we had not exhausted every avenue to improve traffic before proposing such an expensive (ludicrous?) plan. 

Quote

"The day after the transit vote failed we started working on the steps that need to take place to build out the transit network here in Davidson County. It’s not going to have a big single-source of revenue to support it, but we’re going to use our existing revenues to build out the transit network as we move forward," Mayor David Briley told reporters following the announcement. Briley has said he will not pursue another transit referendum in his first full term if re-elected next year.

"And we’re going to partner with [Tennessee Department of Transportation] more effectively to work on the thoroughfares and interstates in and out of town," Briley added, noting city officials are in talks with TDOT to convert the city's main pikes into Safety, Mobility, Automated, Real-time Traffic Management, or SMART, corridors. Currently, TDOT is converting Murfreesboro Pike into a SMART corridor, meaning it will use technology to move traffic along the corridor more smoothly.

 

[LA_TN]

3 hours ago, 12Mouth said:

Remember, the AMP didn't even go up for a vote because the state created a law effectively banning it, so there was nothing to pass. Yes, Beaman was actively against this (and is well connected at the state level), but I think the chief lobbyists fighting the plan through legislation would have done so regardless. This was an important small battle in a much larger national war on public transit.

There was no vote because (then) mayor Karl Dean did not allow it. Residents of Nashville then lobbied the state legislature to create a law banning it

That was the only recourse available, because Karl Dean decided he wanted to push through the AMP without any public input