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The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread


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2 hours ago, LA_TN said:

There was no vote because (then) mayor Karl Dean did not allow it. Residents of Nashville then lobbied the state legislature to create a law banning it

That was the only recourse available, because Karl Dean decided he wanted to push through the AMP without any public input

I seem to recall there being ample public input by way of multiple public meetings, which is where the infamous "those people" lady got to speak her piece.  

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14 hours ago, LA_TN said:

There was no vote because (then) mayor Karl Dean did not allow it. Residents of Nashville then lobbied the state legislature to create a law banning it

That was the only recourse available, because Karl Dean decided he wanted to push through the AMP without any public input

Right, so as others have said, I went to three different public meetings that were packed. One of them (with predominantly residents living off of West End between 440 and Harding) had a lot of people against it.  The others were overwhelmingly in favor. The narrative that there was no public input is simply not true. There were actually meetings, then redesigns in response to those meetings. There were significant problems with the plan (particularly putting the CEO of a hospital at the end of the most contested leg in charge of the campaign and running it directly past the Beaman dealership).  I'm not arguing that there were not a significant number of Nashville residents against the Amp - there certainly were. Dean did not want to put it up for a referendum (probably because it would have been an uphill battle), but my understanding is that there would have been several council votes, had this gotten anywhere near that far. And maybe Harwell alone would have shut this down at the state level in response to her constituents. That is absolutely a real possibility.

What I am saying is that AFP heavily lobbied the state and has waged a well-documented war against public transit. They would have fought this at the state level regardless of where it was in the city like they have done in so many other cities. AFP did not just get involved at the request of Lee Beaman or some local residents - this is part of a national campaign. I don't mean to get political here - AFP has a point of view and goals and priorities that they work towards (see No Tax 4 Tracks in Nashville, Phoenix, Pinellas, FL). They did change the 4 to for outside of Nashville and it was no Tax for More Tracks in Phoenix. Also, see Michigan, Utah, etc. 

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6 minutes ago, 12Mouth said:

Right, so as others have said, I went to three different public meetings that were packed. One of them (with predominantly residents living off of West End between 440 and Harding) had a lot of people against it.  The others were overwhelmingly in favor. The narrative that there was no public input is simply not true. There were actually meetings, then redesigns in response to those meetings. There were significant problems with the plan (particularly putting the CEO of a hospital at the end of the most contested leg in charge of the campaign and running it directly past the Beaman dealership).  I'm not arguing that there were not a significant number of Nashville residents against the Amp - there certainly were. Dean did not want to put it up for a referendum (probably because it would have been an uphill battle), but my understanding is that there would have been several council votes, had this gotten anywhere near that far. And maybe Harwell alone would have shut this down at the state level in response to her constituents. That is absolutely a real possibility.

What I am saying is that AFP heavily lobbied the state and has waged a well-documented war against public transit. They would have fought this at the state level regardless of where it was in the city like they have done in so many other cities. AFP did not just get involved at the request of Lee Beaman or some local residents - this is part of a national campaign. I don't mean to get political here - AFP has a point of view and goals and priorities that they work towards (see No Tax 4 Tracks in Nashville, Phoenix, Pinellas, FL). They did change the 4 to for outside of Nashville and it was no Tax for More Tracks in Phoenix. Also, see Michigan, Utah, etc. 

Apparently, they had little effect on the Tampa referendum. Pro-Transit crushed it there.

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2 hours ago, Dale said:

Apparently, they had little effect on the Tampa referendum. Pro-Transit crushed it there.

Indeed! But they do have an impressive track record around the country. While I don't usually agree with them, AFP is very good at lobbying and running effective campaigns. I will also admit that it is usually easier to mount a campaign against something than for it. We are probably getting off topic here and it is my fault. I'll stop now!

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On 11/17/2018 at 6:13 AM, markhollin said:

Received this e-mail yesterday about the remodeled downtown bus terminal:


 

Screen Shot 2018-11-17 at 6.11.20 AM.png

I had school that day and the day before (Friday), at the Lipscomb Univ. Sparks campus downtown.  So I got to experience that reopening , while as a bonus, being able to ride senior fare on one of the new 2018 Gillig Low-Floor Advantage purple-and light-grey jobs.

Now only if they could add infra-red overheard heaters, just as the outdoor shelters used to have in the early years of MTA and its predecessor the Nashville Transit Co, (NTC) during the 1950's through the early-mid '70s, before being displaced by the Legislative Plaza and the truncation of Deaderick St. and Capitol Blvd.  I guess that's too much to expect beyond the current climate-conditioned waiting rooms─at one end of each level─within which clear view of arriving buses is often obscured.

IMG_6927.thumb.JPG.4df85769274b6a55c1de2c53396f6c94.JPGIMG_6920.thumb.JPG.38afb402616d428660b2dbed1d3f1685.JPGIMG_6923.thumb.JPG.a33e1dcfbb20839977c3870f140c92a9.JPG

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4 hours ago, LA_TN said:

 

 

No, my post is correct. Yes, there were many meetings to get "public input"; but that was only for the public to choose a color for the seat covers. That is not public input.

The point is simple: we live in a democracy and Karl Dean decided to do the AMP without any public vote/referendum. Because Karl Dean decided to play the role of dictator, the citizens of Nashville revolted. If he had followed the normal process of democracy, we would most likely have BRT down Charlotte and East Nashville. Instead, state legislature action was required to stop Karl Dean (that was a really big black eye for the city of Nashville) 

So, when I originally posted "without any public input", that was in reference to the fact that there was no public vote/referendum, no public involvement in the planning, etc. My apologies for any confusion

Fake news

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7 hours ago, LA_TN said:

 

 

No, my post is correct. Yes, there were many meetings to get "public input"; but that was only for the public to choose a color for the seat covers. That is not public input.

The point is simple: we live in a democracy and Karl Dean decided to do the AMP without any public vote/referendum. Because Karl Dean decided to play the role of dictator, the citizens of Nashville revolted. If he had followed the normal process of democracy, we would most likely have BRT down Charlotte and East Nashville. Instead, state legislature action was required to stop Karl Dean (that was a really big black eye for the city of Nashville)

So, when I originally posted "without any public input", that was in reference to the fact that there was no public vote/referendum, no public involvement in the planning, etc. My apologies for any confusion

"Karl Dean decided to play the role of dictator"  :blink:

A dictator?  Seriously?  For proposing a bus route?  I still think your version of events is rather skewed, but regardless of who is correct here, I'm not sure that hyperbole like that is necessary to get your point across.  lol

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Fits! I personally know David Briley. He is not a bold person. So he won't be a mayor who works to build consensus on any issue that's (as he sees it) been rejected. He will manage things, but he will not take leadership on this topic. I don't think Nashville has term limits. His grandfather served 3 terms. Briley won't make waves. The last transit fight made waves. At least during his first couple terms, he'll run away from the issue.

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18 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Fits! I personally know David Briley. He is not a bold person. So he won't be a mayor who works to build consensus on any issue that's (as he sees it) been rejected. He will manage things, but he will not take leadership on this topic. I don't think Nashville has term limits. His grandfather served 3 terms. Briley won't make waves. The last transit fight made waves. At least during his first couple terms, he'll run away from the issue.

Briley is not bold. Nashville does have term limits. I am fine with him not pushing for transit. Let the problem get worse and the people will change their mind. 

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Metro mayors are limited to 2 consecutive 4 year terms.    

Briley was elected to fill the remainder of Barry's term and he will run for reelection in 2019.      He is purposely NOT introducing  a comprehensive new transit plan prior to the next election (beyond the WeGo rebranding exercise and various other announced bus transit upgrades).     However, if Briley is reelected, I do expect he will work to restart the transit planning process, with appropriate public and council input.  

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