The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[rookzie]

My unsolicited editorial on the subject of referendum:

The road to sustainable transit funding takes time, from a ground-zero base point as that of Nashville.   Communication can never be too much, and not only must a plan be open to feedback from various sections of the community, but also there have to be creative ways to bring those groups to the table for ongoing discussion.  There needs to be lot of stakeholder buy-in—much more than what seems to have met the eye here in Nashville, in spite of what we THINK we did, during and since the East-West Connector (“AMP”) discussion.

It might have been learned that the region would have been more open to installing BRT lines, as opposed to light rail, because the impacts of having BRT are more immediate, even for the light (lite) versions.  More transit for more people more quickly.  That’s one factor that Raleigh was able to leverage to pass its tax referendum, amounting to less than half the tag amount of the Nashville proposal.   Being transparent with voters about what they were actually voting for is important as well, never claimed transit could reduce the area's congestion problems, but rather that it would provide  alternatives.  Unfortunately, while being questioned on the referendum, following the resignation of Mayor Barry, I heard Briley on live media refer to the “solving traffic problems”.  Perhaps he simply had not been well informed on the theory and best practices of transit as alternatives as opposed to solutions—IDK.

The advocacy opponents, mostly driven by dark-money institutions such as AFP, were overlooking the larger issue of the transit plan, which really hadn’t been aimed at responding to Nashville’s current travel patterns, but more about creating a framework for the future development of the city around a reliable transit system.   Perhaps had the referendum been passed and the proposal successfully implemented, it would have made it possible for the city to become more transit-oriented, where living without a car is now virtually impossible.  The plan seemed aimed at creating the groundwork for an alternative mode of development, than that dominated by the current construction that entails allocation for high rates of parking, typical for sprawl cities.  This in itself requires a policy change.  In general, policy has been the bane of transit initiatives within Metro Nashville as a whole.

One common denominator among cities like Nashville, Raleigh, and Tampa is that these are overwhelmingly car-centric with relatively low transit accessibility rates for both captive and choice riders for travel between their homes and work centers.   One reason that Tampa likely passed its referendum is that from the start its proposal had earmarked a higher percentage of funding for roadway and sidewalk infrastructure improvements than that for transit-based improvements—a 54:45 ratio, with the remainder for long-range planning transport planning.  One of the more apparent reasons that Nashville’s transit plan referendum was defeated then might have had less to do with what was offered and more with how it was framed—primarily for transit.  Transit referendums often are defeated, when they tout universal, lump-sum solutions focused on a single aspect of transportation issues.   Ballot measures historically have failed with a lack of consensus among a base of stakeholders within a county-city consolidation with distinctly varying values among its sub-communities.  It’s been stated here before by more than one member that perceived needs vary widely among stakeholders within Nashville’s make-up of urban and rural-like pockets and enclaves—a highly non-homogeneous bunch to boot.  Instead, a much less ambitious and more modest approach might be more favorably undertaken with the policy of small, incremental stages.  This is what has been the case of KCMO, which had to employ different “tactics” available within the state of Missouri, to finally launch its streetcar start-up, much less ambitious than what KC had proposed in each of its failed referendums.

For Nashville then, instead of an ambitious start-up network of radial light rail lines emanating from the core, incorporating some limited aspect of the vision might also include revisiting the proposal of the Northwest Corridor, to the extent that it would serve only within the Davidson County portion of the proposed route to Montgomery County (Clarksville).  An abridged Northwest corridor actually might have been potentially viable, in consideration of the current use of SR-12 (Ashland City Hywy) as a major and often heavily utilized arterial for the commute between Cheatham Cnty and Nashville.   In other words, a bit of regional implemented as urban for the time being.  Nashville is not Seattle or Denver or Portland, and to propose a transit referendum for rail-based transit alternatives on such a massive scale as before almost could be considered “predictable” if not “imminent” suicide.  Even for Seattle and Denver, critics have argued that the plans for these have cost too much for too little reward, and that the tax increase (although property- rather than sales-based) would impact funding for education.

Briley would be wise to defer such a referendum proposal from any campaign platform until such time as appropriate.  He might be well served to observe working practices in external districts and to consider a task force and even 3^rd-party facilitation and mediation to engender dialog from all relevant stakeholder groups—especially those entrenched deep in obscurity.   The process has to engage all those who have pertinent knowledge and a stake in the issue─not just those who come to the  table on their own spirit─ if results are to be legitimate and feasible.  The outspoken proponents and opponents are obvious choices, but the stakeholder group also should include those who could benefit and those who could be harmed by any agreement.  All the affected interests jointly have to engage in face-to-face dialogue, bringing their various perspectives to the table to deliberate on the problems they face together.   Buy-in for a transit referendum is more likely to make it successful, when this "partitioned" collaboration is melded with consensus-making.  Until a transport plan can become "vetted" with this process (with repeated "iterations" of intermediate steps, as much as warranted), then a referendum likely will be D.O.A.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by rookzie
(typos; spaces; clutsiness)

[markhollin]

Now Lyft is getting into the Nashville scooter craze by putting as many as 1,000 on the streets in the next few weeks.  I sure wish the city would get a better handle on all of this before introducing so may into the traffic flow. 

More at the Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/11/20/lyft-electric-scooters-nashville-bird-lime/2067111002/

[Tennessine]

16 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Now Lyft is getting into the Nashville scooter craze by putting as many as 1,000 on the streets in the next few weeks.  I sure wish the city would get a better handle on all of this before introducing so may into the traffic flow. 

I agree. Considering the recent increase in pedestrian deaths in Davidson County, it seems unwise to let this go unhinged.

[GregH]

2 minutes ago, nativetenn said:

I agree. Considering the recent increase in pedestrian deaths in Davidson County, it seems unwise to let this go unhinged.

I don't think any of them were killed by scooters.

[PaulChinetti]

I'm all for it, maybe it'll force the council/city to do something about bike lanes.

Bring em on! The companies are following the rules, punish the bad riders not everyone.

[Vrtigo]

During my recent trip to Holland and Belgium, I was intrigued to see a few Bird scooters scattered throughout Brussels. Emphasis on the "few" because there were, in fact, only a few to be seen anywhere we went. This was the only brand I saw and, unlike in Nashville, there simply were not enough of them around to be any sort of a nuisance whatsoever.

I think a big part of Nashville's frustration with scooters is that there are such an unbelievable number of them scattered throughout our city. The general opinion towards them would stand to improve dramatically if their numbers were reduced significantly enough that idle scooters weren't blocking most of the sidewalk at every urban street corner. A slight raise in the tax levied on them would likely be enough to reduce the idle clutter.

Also, as is hopefully no surprise to anybody, there were a lot of bikes in Amsterdam (more bikes there than we have scooters in Nashville, if you can believe it)! One thing that seemed to keep the bicycle clutter to a manageable level were designated bicycle parking areas on the sidewalks. A simple white box stenciled on the ground seemed to generally control the clutter in most areas such that they didn't end up in the middle of the primary walkway. What if Nashville created designated (and enforced!) scooter parking in a similar manner?

By the way, here's Brussels as seen from the top of the Atomium (because I can't tease you guys about great cities without giving you a skyline shot or something):

Some of you probably remember a recent post where I expressed that the most vibrant areas in these cities were not the supertall ones, but those full of low rise, mixed use development. The above shot of central Brussels and its relatively few tall buildings is a great example.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Vrtigo

[Tennessine]

42 minutes ago, GregH said:

I don't think any of them were killed by scooters.

LOL, I probably shoulda worded that post a little differently.

[12Mouth]

I have a few ideas. While I will likely never ride a scooter, I think that they are objectively a far more efficient mode of transportation than a single occupancy automobile. The vast majority of them also exist within a roughly 3 mile radius.  I have watched people doing some incredibly stupid things on them (including riding the wrong way down a protected bike lane at me), but I also see people commuting on these things every day in a perfectly lawful manner. The problem is not that we have too many of these things, but that there are not norms of behavior and enforcement governing them. I would argue that (at least in Nashville), there are also not norms of behavior and enforcement among drivers that promote pedestrian safety, either. 

1. Nashville should try something called traffic enforcement. It means that you actually have police who pull people over (cars, scooters, whomever) when they break the rules and make them pay a fine. Even in rich white neighborhoods! I know - this sounds crazy. As I write this, I literally just watched ten cars make a right on red at almost full speed (including one cop).

2. Our bike/scooter sidewalk law is way too confusing. Most people don't know what defines a commercial district. Just ban them on sidewalks everywhere and put up a bunch of signs that include the fine amount. (And actually write tickets!)

3. Lower the speed limit to 20mph on all non-arterial/collector streets inside the 440 Loop (and the equivalent distance into East/North Nashville). If cars and scooters are both travelling at approximately the same speed, they are much less of a nuisance and everyone is safer.

4. Put in protected bike lanes on streets with a speed limit higher than 25 inside the same loop. Write tickets or tow when people block these lanes.

5. Paint in a bunch of scooter parking on the street in existing car spaces. Make it illegal to park them on the sidewalk or anywhere outside of the designated parking zone. Fine the companies when scooters are parked on the sidewalk or outside of that zone - they'll figure out a way to enforce it and keep people from intentionally moving parked scooters onto the sidewalk quickly.

 

 

[jmtunafish]

2 hours ago, Vrtigo said:

During my recent trip to Holland and Belgium, I was intrigued to see a few Bird scooters scattered throughout Brussels. Emphasis on the "few" because there were, in fact, only a few to be seen anywhere we went. This was the only brand I saw and, unlike in Nashville, there simply were not enough of them around to be any sort of a nuisance whatsoever.

I think a big part of Nashville's frustration with scooters is that there are such an unbelievable number of them scattered throughout our city. The general opinion towards them would stand to improve dramatically if their numbers were reduced significantly enough that idle scooters weren't blocking most of the sidewalk at every urban street corner. A slight raise in the tax levied on them would likely be enough to reduce the idle clutter.

Also, as is hopefully no surprise to anybody, there were a lot of bikes in Amsterdam (more bikes there than we have scooters in Nashville, if you can believe it)! One thing that seemed to keep the bicycle clutter to a manageable level were designated bicycle parking areas on the sidewalks. A simple white box stenciled on the ground seemed to generally control the clutter in most areas such that they didn't end up in the middle of the primary walkway. What if Nashville created designated (and enforced!) scooter parking in a similar manner?

 

By the way, here's Brussels as seen from the top of the Atomium (because I can't tease you guys about great cities without giving you a skyline shot or something):

 

Some of you probably remember a recent post where I expressed that the most vibrant areas in these cities were not the supertall ones, but those full of low rise, mixed use development. The above shot of central Brussels and its relatively few tall buildings is a great example.

Brussels is one of my all-time favorite cities.  I've been able to go twice this year.  It's so quirky in some ways but also so staid and traditional in others.  Amazing food, too.  And its public transport network is easily one of the most intense (and most baffling) on the planet.  Even though I've been to Brussels a dozen times and lived there in the 80s, I still get lost.  But what a wonderful city to get lost in!  Between its bus network, its metro, and its trams (which sometimes also go underground even though they're not the metro), it's a fun place to take public transport even if you don't really know where you're going.

[Will]

I think part of the problem is also part of the genius of these scooter companies: The scooter is a very compelling option for that often-discussed "last mile" in cities that lack a strong bicycling culture. In Nashville, we have several factors working against us: A hilly topography, hot humid summers/cold winters, and a relatively small number of roads that feel safe to bike on for a casual cyclist. I bike to work daily and I'm used to it, but even on the side streets with bike lanes like Natchez Trace and Belmont, it can be intimidating to ride, and 90%+ of people are just not going to tackle the hills/car traffic, even if they're close enough and fit enough to do the ride.

The scooter solves this by taking the hills out of the equation, and reducing your exposure to the weather so that you're not sweaty or freezing. You can also ditch it without worrying about finding a bike rack, so you get most of the best of biking without a lot of the downsides. Flat cities like Amsterdam, London and to some degree NYC already have more of a bicycle culture due to the lack of the factors mentioned above, and so they haven't seen as much of a scooter explosion as cities like LA and Nashville. 

There are a lot of them out there, but I think the supply will even out once we get through this first full winter with scooters.    

 

[timmay143]

What about having an educational campaign like Booze it and Lose it and Click it or Ticket to help remind people how to drive, bike (scooter), and walk?

[PaulChinetti]

It's hard to fix willful ignorance without people getting tickets I think.

I hollered at a guy for riding on the sidewalk the other day "Ride on the street, I'd like to keep scooters here!", went into the store and as I was getting back in my car he was riding on the sidewalk again the other way. So I yelled again and his reply was "The app told me to ride on the sidewalk" which I know is a bold-faced lie. 

I think until people start getting tickets, scooter riders and car drivers for not giving right of way, sharing the road, etc, with scooters/bikes then there won't be any change.

[Tennessine]

I drove back to Nashville today from Knoxville. I'm very pleased with the condition of the roads in both cities, but more so in Nashville. I-65 South in Nashville blew me away.  It used to be full of potholes. 440 is also so much better.

[grilled_cheese]

https://www.jukinmedia.com/licensing/view/1013072

[smeagolsfree]

Above post, Dumb a$$. He could have broken his back. I dont have a lot of sympathy for stupid at this stage in my life.

I saw a guy going down 11th the other day as I was walking.  He was with all of his buddies going too fast and he went off the bike lane into the grassy section and he crashed into the srteet. Needless to say if a car had been coming at the time he would have been run over.

These idiots get up will a smile on their face but when you tell them they are lucky there eas no car coming the smile leaves quickly. Hopefully it was a wake up call.

[nashvylle]

Crazy idea, feel free to criticize, but I thought of it after a Stanley cup game 2 years ago. 

What if the lights on Broadway, West End, and Charlotte stayed green during rush hour for a more extended period of time, like 4 straight minutes at a time, getting most of the workers towards their interstate exits? 

After the preds game, there were hundreds of cars just waiting for the light to turn green, and the cross traffic had very little cars going east west... it would have made a lot more sense to have the lights remain green for longer. 

 

[PaulChinetti]

The lights in this town are terrible. If they were toned for anything g ever it would be awesome. Or had sensors/cameras to detect cars. Or flashed at night after certain times. Or if the cops running them during Titans/Preds games have a hoot. 

[12Mouth]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:41 PM, PaulChinetti said:

The lights in this town are terrible. If they were toned for anything g ever it would be awesome. Or had sensors/cameras to detect cars. Or flashed at night after certain times. Or if the cops running them during Titans/Preds games have a hoot. 

Totally. And my understanding is that Transcore, a Nashville company, resingnaled and automated the entire NYC grid. Seems like something everyone could get behind, right?

I’m someone who thinks cars (generally) drive too fast in this city, but it seems that at least some of this is due to people  who are pissed that they keep getting stuck sitting at lights and are trying to make up time or are hopping onto local streets trying to avoid gridlock.

[KJHburg]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:41 PM, PaulChinetti said:

The lights in this town are terrible. If they were toned for anything g ever it would be awesome. Or had sensors/cameras to detect cars. Or flashed at night after certain times. Or if the cops running them during Titans/Preds games have a hoot. 

I noticed this too when I was  there.  Nashville has a lot of backups at routine intersections.  Charlotte invested in traffic light management long ago and it makes traffic flow better with  longer greens for busier streets.    And simple things like banning left turns from side cut through streets onto other main streets would help too  and restricting left turns where there is no protected turn lane from the busier roads.   

But Nashville needs an all of the above strategy.  Improving roads, intersections, more mass transit options that can be bought in by the community even more bike lanes and paths.  Your city is booming but you have to get some transportation options going quickly.  Charlotte and the state of NC is using managed toll lanes (which by the way I don't like but they are necessary) to improve flow on the major interstates and NC is rolling out ramp meters on a highway I-540 in Raleigh soon to come to Charlotte to help with flow on interstates.   I saw a lot and I mean a lot of construction everywhere in the Nashville area but what I did not see is  much if any highway construction, intersection improvements or mass transit options being built.  

[Dale]

I-440 is under construction, Nashville’s greatest need, to talk to some. Also, I believe that 30 or so buses are being added and routes being streamlined. So, things are getting cranked up. And this is to say nothing about the impetus Amazon may provide.

[e-dub]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

I-440 is under construction, Nashville’s greatest need, to talk to some. Also, I believe that 30 or so buses are being added and routes being streamlined. So, things are getting cranked up. And this is to say nothing about the impetus Amazon may provide.

Nice one, I hadn't heard about this. Thanks, Dale!

[Dale]

12 minutes ago, e-dub said:

Nice one, I hadn't heard about this. Thanks, Dale!

Not sure about the number of new buses though. Not surprised though that decidedly not-sexy (compared to light rail) improvements in the offing.

[nashvylle]

Buses can be sexy

 

[Dale]

27 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Buses can be sexy

 

Nope, no wires.

[e-dub]

Things that make a bus sexy: one that comes by every fifteen minutes. Currently living along the 77 route and it's fecal.