The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Mr_Bond]

48 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

They all need to be thrown in the scrap yard.

If we see a pic of one on a pile at PSC Metals, we'll know who did it.

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

They all need to be thrown in the scrap yard.

I know you are a mass transit advocate.. bird scooters aren’t the solution to nashville’s Traffic woes, but beggars cannot be choosers. Any device that gets residents out of their cars is a step closer to alternative and effective forms of transit. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by nashvylle

[CenterHill]

Now that we’ve been living with scooters for 4 or 5 months, my observation is that the number of people riding scooters for fun and entertainment far outnumber the people who seem to be legitimately using them as an alternative to vehicular transportation (ie, to commute from point A to B).     Not sure if anyone else sees this.     At least downtown where I am every day, scooters have become just another “fun thing to do”, like pedal taverns but less expensive.     The more scooters become part of the entertainment aspect of downtown and zipping up and down sidewalks becomes part of the tourist experience, the less they become part of any meaningful discussion about being a transportation solution.     

[donNdonelson2]

Overheard on a plane out of BNA to HOU Monday night, some who had spent a few days in Nashville were commenting negatively on the number of scooters littering the sidewalks.

[PaulChinetti]

8 hours ago, CenterHill said:

Now that we’ve been living with scooters for 4 or 5 months, my observation is that the number of people riding scooters for fun and entertainment far outnumber the people who seem to be legitimately using them as an alternative to vehicular transportation (ie, to commute from point A to B).     Not sure if anyone else sees this.     At least downtown where I am every day, scooters have become just another “fun thing to do”, like pedal taverns but less expensive.     The more scooters become part of the entertainment aspect of downtown and zipping up and down sidewalks becomes part of the tourist experience, the less they become part of any meaningful discussion about being a transportation solution.     

People drive cars for fun and we don't talk about banning them, the same with any other mode of transportation. 

If the council would get down to busy and do some work on making bike lanes and parking areas happen. There would be a lot less sidewalk riding and clutter. 

Cars have parking lots, bikes have racks. Scooters need the same area. 

[Mr_Bond]

8 hours ago, CenterHill said:

Now that we’ve been living with scooters for 4 or 5 months, my observation is that the number of people riding scooters for fun and entertainment far outnumber the people who seem to be legitimately using them as an alternative to vehicular transportation (ie, to commute from point A to B).     Not sure if anyone else sees this.     At least downtown where I am every day, scooters have become just another “fun thing to do”, like pedal taverns but less expensive.     The more scooters become part of the entertainment aspect of downtown and zipping up and down sidewalks becomes part of the tourist experience, the less they become part of any meaningful discussion about being a transportation solution.     

I mentioned on this thread a few months back that Bird reported to the Nashville Downtown Partnership that local riders now outnumber visitor riders.

[smeagolsfree]

14 hours ago, nashvylle said:

I know you are a mass transit advocate.. bird scooters aren’t the solution to nashville’s Traffic woes, but beggars cannot be choosers. Any device that gets residents out of their cars is a step closer to alternative and effective forms of transit. 

This is not Mass transit. Its mostly dumb tourist using them. They just are not safe as there are enough people that know how to use them, where to ride them, or smart enough to know you need a helmet. Most savvy commuters in Nashville still be using bike as an alternative mode of commuter transportation. I think the scooters will be nothing more than a passing fad just waiting for the next fad.

[nashvylle]

11 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

This is not Mass transit. Its mostly dumb tourist using them. They just are not safe as there are enough people that know how to use them, where to ride them, or smart enough to know you need a helmet. Most savvy commuters in Nashville still be using bike as an alternative mode of commuter transportation. I think the scooters will be nothing more than a passing fad just waiting for the next fad.

correct, but I didn't say it is mass transit, I said it is a baby step towards mass transit. @Mr_Bond and @PaulChinetti can attest that that it isn't 100% tourists using them, but even if it was 100% tourists, that's better than them using a car.

It easily can be a fad, but let's hope this fad leads to protected bike lanes and a more walkable Nashville is all I'm saying. 

[Vrtigo]

Majority tourist scooter usage may very likely be true in certain areas of the city, but I doubt that's the case across all of downtown.

I subjectively tend to think of single riders as more likely to be locals, and the groups of 3+ are visiting. My office looks out over the Demonbreun Street viaduct and there is regular, consistent traffic throughout the day of singles and pairs, with a natural increase in groups during events and weekends, but most of the daytime scooter traffic very much appears to be locals.

[12Mouth]

3 hours ago, nashvylle said:

correct, but I didn't say it is mass transit, I said it is a baby step towards mass transit. @Mr_Bond and @PaulChinetti can attest that that it isn't 100% tourists using them, but even if it was 100% tourists, that's better than them using a car.

It easily can be a fad, but let's hope this fad leads to protected bike lanes and a more walkable Nashville is all I'm saying. 

Agreed, and I actually think this is a really interesting strategy towards getting lots of protected bike lanes. The main impediment to protected lanes is not really the cost, but the inexplicable and loud hatred of the street changes, even when it does not mean any reduction of vehicular lanes (see Belmont Blvd). So the plan as I understand it would be:

1. Flood the sidewalks with scooters.

2. Respond to pedestrian/homeowner rage by banning scooters from all sidewalks everywhere (wait...this one will be coming soon).

3. Start writing lots of tickets or (better) figure out how to fine scooter companies for riders on sidewalks.

4. Flood the streets with scooters.

5. Respond to the car driver rage by building protected bike lanes.

[PaulChinetti]

They are already outlawed on sidewalks. Users just blatantly ignore it, don't want to drive on the road (because they don't feel safe), or are just wildly misinformed (I yelled at a guy to get off the sidewalk and he yelled back that's what the app told him to do, which is just incorrect (and if it's not the company should be fined)).

The ticket writing/fining needs to start now. I think that's the biggest thing that needs to happen now, post signs that scooters are only allowed on the road. Then start shelling out tickets!

 

[MLBrumby]

Add to the confusion, here in Chatty the greenways do not allow motorized scooters, bikes, etc. 

[donNdonelson2]

14 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Add to the confusion, here in Chatty the greenways do not allow motorized scooters, bikes, etc. 

The greenways in Nashville prohibit all motorized vehicles as well

[PaulChinetti]

19 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Add to the confusion, here in Chatty the greenways do not allow motorized scooters, bikes, etc. 

Is it gas powered or all  gas/electric motorized vehicles?

More bike lanes wouldn't be considered part of the greenway I would think. Like bikes lanes on 8th Ave S wouldn't be part of the greenway, for example.

[donNdonelson2]

Posted Rules

Please follow these rules:

Help Protect the Park

• Paved trails are multi-use
• Keep to the right, pass on the left
• Keep pets on leashes not exceeding six feet
• Bicyclists and skaters yield to pedestrians
• Give audible signal when passing
• Speed limit 15 MPH
• Stay on designated trails

Prohibited

• Drugs and alcohol
• Horses and motorized vehicles
• Firearms and hunting

Additional Tips

• The greenways are open during daylight hours only.
• Trail is subject to flash flooding. Exit immediately during heavy rain.
• Enjoy the greenway with a friend
• Leave valuables at home
• Take car keys with you

Important Numbers

Metro Park Police 615-880-3429
Metro Parks 615-862-8400

Emergency 911

[PaulChinetti]

Hmm, quite vague. I wouldn't think a golf cart would work but a electric scooter/bike/skateboard would seem fine to me.

[Mr_Bond]

34 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Hmm, quite vague. I wouldn't think a golf cart would work but a electric scooter/bike/skateboard would seem fine to me.

The electric bikes are becoming more popular with the Baby Boomers who want the exercise of biking but need some help getting up hills or at the end of a long ride.  City ordinances will have to begin distinguishing between gas motors and electric motors.

[12Mouth]

2 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

They are already outlawed on sidewalks.

Only within a business district, which has a very specific definition in Nashville that  only includes a handful of areas outside of downtown.

[bnacincy]

6 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

They are already outlawed on sidewalks. Users just blatantly ignore it, don't want to drive on the road (because they don't feel safe), or are just wildly misinformed (I yelled at a guy to get off the sidewalk and he yelled back that's what the app told him to do, which is just incorrect (and if it's not the company should be fined)).

The ticket writing/fining needs to start now. I think that's the biggest thing that needs to happen now, post signs that scooters are only allowed on the road. Then start shelling out tickets!

 

When I was there I almost got run over by a couple of teenagers zooming down the sidewalk on 4th Avenue towards Lower Broadway-someone will probably have to get badly injured or worse before they start cracking down.

Edited January 4, 2019 by bnacincy
punctuation

[PaulChinetti]

https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-limited-even-the-industry-leader-admits-it-c5fe5aa01699

This article covers scooters a little about scooters too but the quote from the Waymo CEO is the headline getter though.

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-limited-even-the-industry-leader-admits-it-c5fe5aa01699

This article covers scooters a little about scooters too but the quote from the Waymo CEO is the headline getter though.

I think anyone with half a brain could have envisioned that the self-driving-car hoopla was being oversold.  When you stop and think for just a moment about every situation you've been in as a driver...and then visualize technology somehow overcoming every obstacle you've encountered...you begin to doubt their claims that we'll all be using driverless tech in the near future.

IMO...the area we could focus on for driverless technology is some type of hovercraft (similar to current drones).  It would be much easier to develop "highways" just above the treetops / hills that are computer controlled.  I know it sounds very "Jetsons-y"...but I believe that's the future (not sure how far in the future).  Using super-batteries of some sort (or some other non-combustable energy source)...this would free up land...reduce pollution...and prevent accidents (if we can keep them from falling from the sky ).  You tell it the destination and it computes the "highway" to travel.  There would be "mapped-grids" in the sky that would prevent other drones from crashing into one another.

Now...where do I invest in this technology?! 

[PaulChinetti]

I like the idea of air lanes @titanhog a lot less "stuff" for the computer vision to deal with up there. No dirty ground, faded lines and other obstructions up in the air!

As battery technology gets better and better it could definitely be feasible. 

[Vrtigo]

I love the idea of flying transportation as much as anybody. The hurdle I can't figure out how to get over is the noise and enormous amount of air that has to move to get anything off the ground. Whether you've launched a drone firsthand, taken a ride in a helicopter, or just seen a lot of flying on TV, it's plain to see how much disruption these things would cause (especially at takeoff and landing) to the quality of life and pedestrian experience we're all advocating for.

As much as I'd love to see it, the simple physics of the matter make drone transportation seem just as unlikely right now as a fully autonomous car.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Vrtigo

[titanhog]

3 hours ago, Vrtigo said:

I love the idea of flying transportation as much as anybody. The hurdle I can't figure out how to get over is the noise and enormous amount of air that has to move to get anything off the ground. Whether you've launched a drone firsthand, taken a ride in a helicopter, or just seen a lot of flying on TV, it's plain to see how much disruption these things would cause (especially at takeoff and landing) to the quality of life and pedestrian experience we're all advocating for.

As much as I'd love to see it, the simple physics of the matter make drone transportation seem just as unlikely right now as a fully autonomous car.

And...we have the pesky power lines to deal with.  It definitely won't be something that will happen with our current technology.

Thing is...both the autonomous vehicles and drone technology will hopefully lead us to something in the near future (within 20-30 years) that is a better fit for society than either of these.  Not sure what it would be, but the desire is there for us to develop something that will alleviate traffic issues while also making it safer to travel...while not polluting the environment and not being beholden to foreign governments who are hostile to our way of life.

[PaulChinetti]

3 hours ago, titanhog said:

And...we have the pesky power lines to deal with.  It definitely won't be something that will happen with our current technology.

Power lines are much more predictable than people. You can also bury them, you try to bury other drivers they don't take to kindly to it, haha.