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The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread


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Just to let you guys know,Chris Veit and Cliff Lippard are both UP posters and very well informed about the needs of the city.

Also my friend, Mary Vavra, the Lockeland Springs NA past president and a board member of Transit Now Nashville.  Mary is also one of the Traffic and Parking Commissioners.

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It is working out the way I had anticipated. They will not be able to work out the differences and if they do the Governor may veto. They will probably not call a special session as time is running out.

Hopefully nothing will come of this.

I don't know.  I doubt that Governor Haslam would veto a transportation bill if both the House and Senate work out their differences to allow transit to move forward (pun intended) in Nashville.  Governor Haslam has stated that he supports Mayor Dean's emphasis on economic development, which is what the AMP is all about.

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I live right on West End and work at Saint Thomas West, but have never really formed an opinion of whether I should support the AMP or not (which, I probably should have at this point). Either way, all of this back and forth with the government and the mayor and these people for and against is absolutely exhausting. It's really unfortunate because I feel like people of my age group (21-25) who live on West End would be open and progressive enough to use the AMP. But like I said, all of the arguing/change of plans/etc has left me without interest and at this point I could care less.

 

Just an opinion. I don't know how old everyone is, but I just wanted to give my perspective from (what I feel) would be an age group who be ready and willing to use the AMP. Please nobody jump me (haha).

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well the state is not very far out of the loop... the AMP still needs state money. 

 

Maybe not, if we take out the dedicated lanes from 440 to St. Thomas and that portion next to Beaman, it could save close to $60 MM. Dean was asking the state for ~$35MM.

I don't know.  I doubt that Governor Haslam would veto a transportation bill if both the House and Senate work out their differences to allow transit to move forward (pun intended) in Nashville.  Governor Haslam has stated that he supports Mayor Dean's emphasis on economic development, which is what the AMP is all about.

 

I think he was saying if the house and senate work out a bill that prohibits dedicated lanes in the center lane Haslam would veto, but I won't speak for smeagolsfree.

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I live right on West End and work at Saint Thomas West, but have never really formed an opinion of whether I should support the AMP or not (which, I probably should have at this point). Either way, all of this back and forth with the government and the mayor and these people for and against is absolutely exhausting. It's really unfortunate because I feel like people of my age group (21-25) who live on West End would be open and progressive enough to use the AMP. But like I said, all of the arguing/change of plans/etc has left me without interest and at this point I could care less.

 

Just an opinion. I don't know how old everyone is, but I just wanted to give my perspective from (what I feel) would be an age group who be ready and willing to use the AMP. Please nobody jump me (haha).

you are the demographic...

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I'm reluctant to post this but, there's momentum in favor of Tennessee House Bill SB 2156 which allows dedicated lanes for mass transit on a state roadway in metro Nashville. The commissioner of transportation must still approve and if funding is asked for the general assembly must approve. The Senate would need to adopted the same language next week on the floor for the AMP to move forward. The momentum shift happened when Mayor Dean instructed the engineers to make the AMP BRT lite from 440 to St. Thomas and I-40 to west end/broadway split. Also, the advisory committee of both for and against the AMP has gone a long way in taking the sting out of this for the opposition. Two other points of note are the lopsided vote of 70-5 on the house floor in favor of dedicated lanes and the fact that the stopamp website hasn't been updated in a while could be a good sign for the yesamp folks. A long road to travel still with the need for funding outside of the federal commitment and the city council vote. If you are a mass transit nerd like me the score is 5 to 5 in the fifth inning with a home field advantage.

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FNash, that is a very astute analysis of the AMP's current state. I have no doubt that the decision to make the route BRT-lite between I-440 and St. Thomas has neutered much of the opposition. 

I have had 2 huge questions during the entire AMP process...  now only question 1 remains.

1) What is the dedicated local funding source?
2) How can ANY traffic engineer take away 2 lanes from this incredibly congested area, while adding to the existing traffic with park-and-ride stations, and not expect utter chaos for the drivers????

I sat in traffic everyday this week between the I-440 and White Bridge Road (especially the MBA to WBR stretch or even coming off of Cherokee onto Harding) at 2:30 until 4:00 for over 20 minutes each day. 

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I like the idea of the AMP, however, I wonder if money could be better spent. My ideas are as follows:

Continue the Music City circulator free down W End and free.

Build a series of spoke and hub centers through out Nashville with park and ride facilities.

Local buses go to the hubs

Express bus or BRT lines go to Music City Central

Buses leave every ten minutes during rush hour.

The most buses a person would have to ride would be 3.

Just random thoughts guys. Discuss

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  Ron,  I like the idea of spoke and hub centers through out Nashville.  I am of the opinion that dedicated lanes are needed if you want buses to be efficient and timely during peak traffic times. I'm speaking from my bus riding experience of four months.  My riding route was from Old Hickory/Nolensville to Music City Center-Music City Center to West End/Vanderbilt. Buses come frequent from 4-6pm but that's not the problem.. battling the West End traffic rush while trying to pick up and drop off passengers is the real headache. I just don't understand how a bus transit system can be an attractive option when it's common to see it sitting in traffic along with the cars. 

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So your solution is to make traffic worse for cars to make it better for the mass-transit?

That is exactly the reason STOP AMP was formed. There seems to be a notion out there that the worse you make the situation for cars the better it is for mass-transit (the government using negative and positive reinforcement).... of course the people paying for the mass-transit are the very ones driving the cars.....

Edited by Guest
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So your solution is to make traffic worse for cars to make it better for the mass-transit?

That is exactly the reason STOP AMP was formed. There seems to be a notion out there that the worse you make the situation for cars the better it is for mass-transit (the government using negative and positive reinforcement).... of course the people paying for the mass-transit are the very ones driving the cars.....

 

The city is growing at a rapid clip and has some serious transportation issues to address.  Widening our major streets every ten years is not an option, not to mention a far more expensive one.  Mass transit options like subway, LRT or monorail that don't take up road space are likely not options either due to their cost and density needs.  The status quo clearly isn't working either, and as more people move in and push their transportation needs onto the system, traffic is only going to get worse and worse if we do nothing.  So, what are we left with?  We're left with BRT, which really requires dedicated lanes if it is at all to live up to the 'R' in the acronym. 

 

It seems to me that BRT with dedicated lanes, at the very least, would have a net neutral effect on traffic along West End due to the buses AND cars it is taking out of the traffic lanes.  I mean, every single person that rode the BRT would equal a car that would be taken off the street.  I could understand your position if Nashville were a driver's paradise, but it's obviously not, so what is it about the current situation that's even worth defending?  In my mind, the real affront to car drivers would be if the city did nothing to address our transportation woes. 

Edited by BnaBreaker
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Took the bus to the game last night.  Wanted to get downtown around 6ish.  Checked Google maps to give me an idea of when to leave (I know it's not official but it's easier then trying to decipher the MTA schedule) and I decided to go to the stop near Gwynn and Gallatin to catch the 26 at 4:54.  Get there a few mins before and wait until 5pm, bus is a no show.  So I walk south on Gallatin to the 56 Inglewood inbound station and the bus should arrive there at 5:07.  Well, the 26 decides to show up at 5:21 and literally right behind it is the 56.  The 26 was packed so we hopped on the 56 and got downtown at 5:45ish.  I know the schedule changes on the weekend but I don't ride consistently enough to commit the change in schedule to memory.  Unless I'm on a schedule I'll just show up at either of those two bus stops and I catch a ride when I catch a ride.

 

Frustrated.  Really hope the real time GPS bus app gets here soon.

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So your solution is to make traffic worse for cars to make it better for the mass-transit?

That is exactly the reason STOP AMP was formed. There seems to be a notion out there that the worse you make the situation for cars the better it is for mass-transit (the government using negative and positive reinforcement).... of course the people paying for the mass-transit are the very ones driving the cars.....

Yeah, let's bulldoze about 5 lanes each way to make more room for cars!

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Look, my original post (below) was snarky so sorry. All I am trying to say is that making the current situation worse for drivers for some projected payoff 10-years hence is not something I (or many it seems) will support. ; )

((Yes, because someone has proposed adding 10-lanes to Harding... I must have missed that proposal.

A proposal I have seen wanted to spend $175,000,000 to TAKE AWAY 2 of 5 traffic lanes from the already problematic area of Harding.... because that makes sense! ha

Oh, wait I guess it did not work as the mayor found out ...))

Edited by Guest
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Yes, because someone has proposed adding 10-lanes to Harding... I must have missed that proposal.

A proposal I have seen wanted to spend $175,000,000 to TAKE AWAY 2 of 5 traffic lanes from the already problematic area of Harding.... because that makes sense! ha

Oh, wait I guess it did not work as the mayor found out ...

 

Well, if you're going to attach a $ figure, shouldn't you attach the portion that actually affects that segment? You make it sound as if $175 million is being spent on taking away two lanes from that area of Harding Pk, which is not true.

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Yes, because someone has proposed adding 10-lanes to Harding... I must have missed that proposal.

A proposal I have seen wanted to spend $175,000,000 to TAKE AWAY 2 of 5 traffic lanes from the already problematic area of Harding.... because that makes sense! ha

Oh, wait I guess it did not work as the mayor found out ...

 

 

First, the mayor did not find out that the Amp as originally proposed wouldn't have worked.  No one knows what that would've looked like because we have yet to give it a shot.  What the mayor actually found out was that there were a lot of powerful people with powerful friends who strongly oppose the Amp.  He responded politically and, in my opinion, made the best move he could given the circumstances.

 

Not three posts ago you were complaining about how bad it is between Whitebridge and 440.  I believe timmay's joke about bulldozing 10 new lanes was intended to point out that there are not a lot of other options being suggested by the opposition to manage the increasing traffic problems that we all seem to acknowledge.  Yes it's true that the amp will remove a couple lanes from an already busy street, but it will also remove a couple cars from the road and clear up some of that traffic, as well.  As Nashville grows, traffic will get worse regardless, but at least the Amp will give people an option to avoid that traffic, thereby freeing up the road for those who need or chose to drive.  Everybody wins. 

 

What's the alternative?  Worse gridlock, bulldozing ten new car lanes, or....?

Edited by ruraljuror
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  What's the solution Nashville_bound ??  

 

The Stop Amp solution- Improve current bus service, offer:

 

* Low platform, hybrid power buses

* Limited stop bus service over long distance

* Local bus service for shorter trips

* Control of traffic signals

* Pay fares at kiosks, online etc

* GPS drives real-time signs and smartphone apps.  

 

I think improving bus services is good.. Will it be enough ? Will it really matter if the buses have to negotiate the same lanes as cars, double park vehicles, bicycles etc.. I am curious to know more about control of traffic signals. 

 

Others may not agree or admit it, but I do think the plan is to "push" people from there cars to a certain extent. The message is bike more, walk more, and ride more.  I just happen to think that is a good thing..  Change aint easy.. We definitely know that here in the South!!! 

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Well I believe if you look at the AMP's own rider projections they are projecting a 30% increase in bus riders along the planned route. The new riders would be composed of existing bus riders (no help there), tourists, new residents, and new riders. 

Honestly, I do not have any answers at to the perfect solution. I am not critical of mass-transit and would actually favor an economical (if one existed) LRT solution. I do know that attempting to punish drivers to modify their behavior is the type of over-the-top, authoritarian behavior that I have come to loathe in government. Make the busses nice, synch the lights so they have an advantage  but do not carve out dedicated lanes that in any way reduces the current traffic (automobile) load.

 

 

It seems to me that BRT with dedicated lanes, at the very least, would have a net neutral effect on traffic along West End due to the buses AND cars it is taking out of the traffic lanes.  I mean, every single person that rode the BRT would equal a car that would be taken off the street.  I could understand your position if Nashville were a driver's paradise, but it's obviously not, so what is it about the current situation that's even worth defending?  In my mind, the real affront to car drivers would be if the city did nothing to address our transportation woes. 

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I totally agree with you but I do not have that number....

I will gladly save the taxpayers (city, maybe state, federal) the money and propose ending the west leg of the AMP at I440.
 

Well, if you're going to attach a $ figure, shouldn't you attach the portion that actually affects that segment? You make it sound as if $175 million is being spent on taking away two lanes from that area of Harding Pk, which is not true.

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