The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[UTgrad09]

A lament:

 

I attempted to ride the Green bus from Cummins Station to 5th & Church today for lunch and, since the routes rarely follow the published schedules, decided to begin walking and would just hop on the bus when it caught up to me. For the entire 0.9 mile walk each way, I did not see a single Music City Circuit bus going either direction. Based on the time it took to walk, I should have seen at least one, probably two! 25+ minutes between buses when you promise a 15 minute interval is unacceptable.

 

MTA, please get your act together! Road closures, events and construction are inevitable. Is this really the best we can do?

 

Today? 

 

I wonder if it is a little jacked up because of the Music City Bowl and other festivities. 

 

If the results are the same during a non-holiday week, then I think it's time for the blame game.

[rookzie]

I wonder if anyone else here tried to take the bus on the evening of the Christmas parade downtown, a rainy Friday. I boarded the extremely late #25 at Greer Stadium and it took me almost an hour just to get downtown, usually less than a 30 minute trip. Then another eternity waiting for a commuter bus, which was either exactly an hour late, or a bonus trip to get everyone who would otherwise be stranded.

 

I don't think the blame there can be laid entirely on MTA, but between them and Metro and MNPD, there's got to be better coordination, and communication with the public. (And is rush hour Friday really the best time for a parade?)

 

On another note, I can't find the link right now, but I see they've announced a new commuter route to Dickson, the last of two afternoon rides outbound leaves before 5pm. Another commuter route just for state workers and nobody else.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, the RTA "Spoke" coaches are really (unofficially) in place for the state workers,even though anyone can ride with the typical 1-way fare of $4.00, which really aint that bad of a deal (unless multi-ride fares are not offered).  But there absolutely is no reverse-commute provision, as the contract Grayline buses simply go and "hide" somewhere at the ends of the morning runs, even with 2 or 3 runs from Gallatin and Hendersonville, or from Clarksville and Springfield, until the afternoon outbound return runs.  A notable exception are the MTA/RTA-owned equipment runs of Nº 96X Murfreesboro, which can be seen on an outbound return run departing downtown, even before 07:00 hrs. on weekdays.

 

The state even has considered moving us office workers from the Dept of Correction from the Rachel Jackson Bldg. to the Cockrill Bend area, which of course has no public transit (if it ever once had any at all).  Other than with a capital budget approval by the legislature, that agency would be hard pressed to re-purpose its closed penal facilities out there to make them suitable for occupation, and on top of that, the state acknowledges a major objection among those who have relied heavily on the MTA and the RTA for the downtown workplaces.  I think that even for myself that would be my cue to shake some bushes for another job, especially since I have become physically challenged for pre-dawn and dusk driving.  From what I have heard discussed casually, the state appears to be in resolve to negotiate with MTA, if such a move would occur, although as implied such a measure likely remains beyond reach for now.

 

It's always seemed to me ironic that the Dept. of Transportation, of all agencies, has its Region 3 facility, a rather large operation, located at the SE corner of Centennial and Cockrill Bend Boulevards (6600 block), with the only provision for "transit" (as it were) to and from the rest of the city being by truck, van, or car ─ absolutely no bus anywhere closer than Centennial and 51st Ave ─ and believe you me, those are some long blocks between 51st and the 6600 block  (too long for walking) on the far side of the Briley Parkway interchange.  Cockrill Bend is primarily industrial and commercial, with the first (and only) bridge ever across the Cumberland in that district being the Briley Parkway Bridge.  Many downtown agency workers commute on those RTA buses across county lines, and that would impose yet an additional need to drive in, rather than to have to transfer between the downtown terminus and a West Nashville city bus, especially for those who reside the western mid-state counties of Dickson, Cheatham, and Montgomery.  These workers would have to ride in primarily eastbound, and then ride back out about 8 miles westerly.  Historically, Cockrill Bend has been basically sequestered and inaccessible from the rest of the city, likely because of the various penal facilities and other "undesirables" such as petroleum river terminals and other heavy industrial plants.

 

As far as catching a bus on the night of the Christmas parade was concerned, I totally agree that such an arrangement was a gross misjudgment of planning (as normal for such an event), with the MNPD, Public Works, and even the higher ups in charge to be held accountable for that traffic quagmire.  That's the reason that I took partial leave from work and tore out of there on an early afternoon bus.

 

-==-

Edited January 2, 2015 by rookzie

[Nathan_in_DC]

On a side track from the interstate issue...

 

What is up with the lack of crosswalk indicators on Music Square E/W and 17th and 16th Aves? I like using that stretch as a jogging route and am befuddled at the lack of crosswalk lights at controlled intersections.  You have to crane your neck up to look at the light for the opposing traffic to make sure you don't get run over.

[smeagolsfree]

The free loop changes the route based on road closers and construction issues. The only problem is the route changes are not publicized. I have seen them change a couple of times in one day.

The other issue is the fact that when they do change the route, they have to make sure the bus can make the turn at the corners. Point in case was a while back on 5th ave. one of the buses took out a fire hydrant on the corner.

[Neigeville2]

The free loop changes the route based on road closers and construction issues. The only problem is the route changes are not publicized. I have seen them change a couple of times in one day.

The other issue is the fact that when they do change the route, they have to make sure the bus can make the turn at the corners. Point in case was a while back on 5th ave. one of the buses took out a fire hydrant on the corner.

 

This is super irritating.  They need some kind of real time info for this system to work properly.  I don't know how they think people are going to find the bus if it isn't on its proper route.

[rookzie]

This is super irritating.  They need some kind of real time info for this system to work properly.  I don't know how they think people are going to find the bus if it isn't on its proper route.

 

Super-agree.  Nº60 & 61 Green buses pass along the eastern edge of my block (between Deaderick and Charlotte),

Convenient?  In theory only!! With headways of mostly 15 minutes (20- or even 30-minutes during the early or late hours) for the separate routes, this would seem even more of a benefit for those traveling within the confines of (or in proximity to) the 5th Avenue "trunk" line, with an even greater combined frequency of both concurrent routes.

 

Miss one?  The next one just around the corner, so to speak. It's made to sound like getting on and off a moving sidewalk.  But again this is in theory only.  With the road closures for events, for road maintenance, and in some instances for ongoing construction projects (where the roadway may be reduced to a single lane), no provision whatsoever is given for the unsuspecting waiting, and even for out-of-luck riders who have been forced to get off on 6th or 7th (or worse), without a ghost of a clue of what's happening.  This is not new news, people!. This has been ongoing since inception!  And it's not just with the circulators either; all the routes which are subject to downtown fluctuations and disruptions undergo this, with the only fore-knowledge thereof being on the top of MTA Maps and Schedules Web pages, if even then!  It's yet another example of how municipal agencies do not work in concert to effectuate reliability and predictability, by not relaying scheduling deviations in a timely and manner.  Real-time displays, as Neigeville2 suggests, and those with the versatility to flash more than just ETA's, would be far more than worth the costs.

 

Some of us might recall mention of this in a previous post of 24-Aug-14, in particular:

 

Holeywell, Ryan. "Top Reasons People Stop Using Public Transit." Governing - The States and Localities. GOVERNING Institute, 16 Jan. 2013. Web. 25 Aug. 2014. <http://www.governing...c-transit.html>

and

from theTransitWire.com:

(from “Why transit reliability is such a big deal”. Jan 18. 2013)

“…Riders were much more forgiving of incidents that they perceived to be beyond the control of the agency, like traffic delays or emergencies. “On the other hand,” they wrote, “out of all reliability problems, the strongest influence on transit use reduction comes from experiencing delays due to operational problems – other transit vehicles being backed up or problems downstream on the route that are not immediately visible to the passenger (resulting in vehicles being held upstream).” The location of the delay also matters. Riders were more likely to reduce their transit use because of delays at a transfer point than at their starting point.”

 

Can't put the blame on a single target, but again, the MTA remains fully accountable for this sporadically (and increasingly) unfulfilling service.  There is no "decent" excuse for allowing this, especially the unannounced detours of circulators which never come, although we have had to put with this, without end.

 

I don;t see how in the hell a mixed-traffic BRT operation serving the MCCentral along 5th Ave (or even along Jas. Rob. Pkwy, now that construction activity is about to commence near 4th and Church, and very easily will affect movement as far back as the Pkwy.) can be be sustained with any kind of consistency of scheduling, if the MTA can't even manage a less sophisticated array of circulators, If it remains on the agenda, will a BRT, too, get "derailed" with detours and bunch-ups, under those shared conditions.

 

-==-

 

Edited January 2, 2015 by rookzie

[Nathan_in_DC]

The free loop changes the route based on road closers and construction issues. The only problem is the route changes are not publicized. I have seen them change a couple of times in one day.

The other issue is the fact that when they do change the route, they have to make sure the bus can make the turn at the corners. Point in case was a while back on 5th ave. one of the buses took out a fire hydrant on the corner.

 

And herein lies the inherent advantage (and some would say drawback) of light rail: it's much harder for it to just up and change its route randomly.  If road work or construction has to be done, it is often done to work around the rails, is more clearly announced and thought-out, and/or a shuttle bus is provided to hop over the construction zone.

 

It's one of the reasons I only ride a traditional bus as a last resort. I've been burned by buses that never show up because of route changes and delays that have no way of being announced.  A BRT line, light rail, or train, however, generally will show up at the declared stops, or there will be some major issue that has caused a delay/cancellation that will likely be relayed to passengers.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Nathan_in_DC

[Nathan_in_DC]

Sitting at work over the evening and we had CNN on one of our screens. They showed the crowd on Lower Broadway, it seemed insane (was it bigger than previous years?).  I was thinking of just how nuts it must be to try to get out of downtown on a night like tonight considering the crowds who have almost no other option than personal car.

 

Did anyone here take the MCS tonight? And what are the odds they will run more than 4 cars at any point in the future if it keeps selling out? I've been on a number of trains before that had more cars than there was space on the platform, so they just didn't open the door on the final car and had everyone embark/debark on the car ahead.

[smeagolsfree]

They said 127,000 downtown last night.

[MidTenn1]

They said 127,000 downtown last night.

 

From the Tennessean;

 

 

Edited January 1, 2015 by PHofKS

[dmillsphoto]

That second shot is just incredible.

[volsfanwill]

Sitting at work over the evening and we had CNN on one of our screens. They showed the crowd on Lower Broadway, it seemed insane (was it bigger than previous years?).  I was thinking of just how nuts it must be to try to get out of downtown on a night like tonight considering the crowds who have almost no other option than personal car.

 

Did anyone here take the MCS tonight? And what are the odds they will run more than 4 cars at any point in the future if it keeps selling out? I've been on a number of trains before that had more cars than there was space on the platform, so they just didn't open the door on the final car and had everyone embark/debark on the car ahead.

yes, last year there were something like 83,000 and they were expecting 100,000 this year, but 127,000 showed up instead.  It was crazy and lines to the bars were very long the one time in went outside.  Luckily I arrived about 6:30 so I didnt have trouble.  I also took uber home at 1 so I beat that crowd as well. 

It was arranged well, cabs and ubers and lyfts were lined up on KVB and people didnt seem to mind having to walk over there to get rides.  I believe the sober ride program from the police was located at the roundabout. 

 

a couple things happened to make it bigger. first it has gotten bigger every year anyway.

second, there were lots of articles written about it after last year saying Nashville was a great alternate new years destination to NYC and much less expensive.

third. It was on national tv. 

because of the TV i would expect even more people next year.

 

I spoke to many people from out of town.  even one couple who were moving from NYC to San Diego and shipping their belongings but driving across the country. they said they had originally planned to be in Atlanta but read about Nashville's celebration just this week and detoured.  

[Nathan_in_DC]

Wow, that's amazing. Glad to see that it wasn't a complete disaster transit-wise.

 

I was absolutely shocked when I saw the pictures on TV, though. It looked just as crowded as Times Square.

[FrankNash]

Attended Moon Taxi show had no problems in or out of the city. Fun night for sure!

[markhollin]

State senator Ketron still backs I-24 monorail:

http://www.dnj.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/29/sen-ketron-backs-billion-monorail-along/21025059/

[nashvylle]

I think BRT on the interstate is the best quick fix as of right now, and most realistic... maybe only if they can have dedicated lanes during certain rush hours. Still doubt it with the car-idolized politicians in Tennessee. 

 

Just better not take the route near dictator beaman!

[BnaBreaker]

Though I'm simply glad to have an ally of alternative transportation in the state senate, the I-24 monorail plan is, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous in so many ways, that I fear the mere fact that it is being tossed around as an option might damage the possibility of state funding being approved for any practical alternative transport projects in the foreseeable future.  The 'billion dollar Murfreesboro Monorail' plan could be used by opponents of mass transit, like Mr. Beaman, as ammo to rile up their supporters.  They already have far more support than they deserve.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Though I'm simply glad to have an ally of alternative transportation in the state senate, the I-24 monorail plan is, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous in so many ways, that I fear the mere fact that it is being tossed around as an option might damage the possibility of state funding being approved for any practical alternative transport projects in the foreseeable future.  The 'billion dollar Murfreesboro Monorail' plan could be used by opponents of mass transit, like Mr. Beaman, as ammo to rile up their supporters.  They already have far more support than they deserve.

 

Agreed. I saw this happen in Virginia Beach. It was so egregious though that many of the proponents of the monorail plan were behind it because it was so absurd that it wouldn't happen any time soon. They didn't want any sort of mass transit, so they got behind the least feasible so that they could silence media criticism by saying "I was for transit!" without actually being for it.

[mundiejc]

I have a question.... Why doesn't TDOT require that all through traffic take 840 or Briley? You can change to any interstate that way, and even 840 from Dickson to Lebanon only adds what, 15 minutes when Downtown congestion is taken into account? It would especially help by getting 18 wheelers off the road.

That would alleviate a good bit of traffic through the core.

[MidTenn1]

I have a question.... Why doesn't TDOT require that all through traffic take 840 or Briley? You can change to any interstate that way, and even 840 from Dickson to Lebanon only adds what, 15 minutes when Downtown congestion is taken into account? It would especially help by getting 18 wheelers off the road.

That would alleviate a good bit of traffic through the core.

 

TDOT recently added dynamic message signs (dms) on I-40 as you approach Nashville from either side to encourage the use of 840 as a bypass. During peak hours, they will post messages about how much time can actually be saved by using 840 instead of traveling through Nashville.

 

I have always suggested that Briley Parkway should be labeled I-265 to encourage the bypassing of downtown by traffic to and from I-65 north. But I don't know if that will ever come about.

 

As far as 'requiring' traffic to use those alternates, I don't know how that would be enforced.

[CenterHill]

TDOT recently added dynamic message signs (dms) on I-40 as you approach Nashville from either side to encourage the use of 840 as a bypass. During peak hours, they will post messages about how much time can actually be saved by using 840 instead of traveling through Nashville.

 

I have always suggested that Briley Parkway should be labeled I-265 to encourage the bypassing of downtown by traffic to and from I-65 north. But I don't know if that will ever come about.

 

As far as 'requiring' traffic to use those alternates, I don't know how that would be enforced.

 

I've noticed these messages and always assumed it would be a significantly longer route to use 840 as an east/west bypass.     But according to Google maps, for the span from Lebanon to Dickson (more or less the endpoints of 840), using 840 would add 19 miles and 12 minutes to the 1 hr, 12 min. trip using I-40 (by Google's calculations).     Less than I thought.     During peak traffic, that 12 minutes would evaporate and 840 might actually save you time.    Something Siri in her infinite wisdom might not know...   

[volsfanwill]

Siri might not but google maps does, I often get updates mid route on my way to work telling me a faster route. and it works on long trips as well.

A specific example:

 

back in the fall I was going to Knoxville for a football game, I picked up my friend at his house in Antioch after work. my destination was already in my phone.

Just as I was about to get on I-24 towards Nashville, my phone buzzed and said I should take 1 of 2 alternate routes. 840 to lebanon or I24 to Chattanooga and I75 North.

There had just been a horrible accident on 40 near Briley so google gave me 2 alternates. funny enough it said the Chattanooga route would only take about 20 minutes longer due to traffic around Lebanon.

[FrankNash]

I feel the best opportunity for mass transit are modern streetcars running with traffic inside the 440 on streets like Broadway, Demonbreun, Division, Church st., 8th, 5th, 31st., and Main street. How to pay for said service would be a ongoing tax for mass transit that would be voted on by city council and metro residence.  Make it free to ride as an amenity for Nashvillians and visitors alike. As far as outside Metro, let the surrounding counties and the state government figure it out.  If they want to plug-in to the engine that is running this growth good for them. The flexibility of adding more or less cars will make this work. Would it work better in dedicated lanes? YES!  Will more people ride because it's a train not a bus?  YES!  Will taxpayers vote for a hike in taxes to pay for sexy urban cars running up and down the streets? Maybe.

[grilled_cheese]

Didn't they try to ban 18 wheelers from 440 but the Feds said no.

[rookzie]

I feel the best opportunity for mass transit are modern streetcars running with traffic inside the 440 on streets like Broadway, Demonbreun, Division, Church st., 8th, 5th, 31st., and Main street. How to pay for said service would be a ongoing tax for mass transit that would be voted on by city council and metro residence.  Make it free to ride as an amenity for Nashvillians and visitors alike. As far as outside Metro, let the surrounding counties and the state government figure it out.  If they want to plug-in to the engine that is running this growth good for them. The flexibility of adding more or less cars will make this work. Would it work better in dedicated lanes? YES!  Will more people ride because it's a train not a bus?  YES!  Will taxpayers vote for a hike in taxes to pay for sexy urban cars running up and down the streets? Maybe.

 

Now, don’t you think that Nashv’l’s current 2-section, articulated buses – I mean “coaches” – look sexy?  Maybe if they were painted orange and purple with a stainless-steel band of side trim, with purple and green neon ground-effects lighting?

How ‘bout those fender skirts on the center and rear axles or even all axles – “don’t that” just appeal to your heart’s desire, when it spreads that big ol’accordion as that thing rounds past the curb at 5th and Charlotte? (a real heart-throb, eh?)

 

While it never could fit on Nashv'l's surface streets, what about a -=Bus-Train=- (Train-bus?) that doesn't think of itself as a bus?

 

Of course, it might not have as much curb appeal as much as it might appeal to the curve of the roundabout as this kick-ass trolley-bus.

  "Sexy" as sexy can?

 

 

...or is all this like lipstiK on a pig? (your call)

 

(this is not intended to target any assessment of rapid transit as an informed choice)

 

-==-

Edited January 7, 2015 by rookzie