The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashscan]

What is the price for a round-trip ticket from Leb to Nash? I didn't see that mentioned in the article...

I heard 10 bux. Can someone verify?

[Kheldane]

I heard 10 bux. Can someone verify?

All I can say is ...DAMN. If that's true then this commuter line will truely be dependant on high gas prices to earn riders. I tend to think the people who most need to ride the rails (from an economic and pollution standpoint) will also be the ones who are least likely to give up their gas-guzzeling SUV's and trucks. Anyone who is concerned about transportation economy has already purchased a fuel efficient car that can get them to nashville and back for less than $10 per day.

Of course, there could be a few riders who are willing to pay that much not to have to fight traffic, and possibly a few more who ride just for the novalty factor. Still, I think they could have and should have designed the system in such a way that the price would be $7 per day. All those fancy stations they're building are competely unnecessary (I'm thinking of the DT station, but I assume similar structures will be built along the line?). All they needed was a wooden platform and a gravel parking lot at each stop (except dowtown). If they wasted time and money by painting the rail cars in matching colors then they deserve to go bankrupt.

[Hankster]

I heard 10 bux. Can someone verify?

If it's $10 per round trip, this project has exactly ZERO percent chance of being successful. Imagine asking someone to pay $50 per week to commute to work no more than 30 miles each way. No chance you'll get many takers.

[jice]

I heard 10 bux. Can someone verify?

$10 round trip is only if you purchase the tickets every day at the ticket booths or whatever...

http://www.musiccitystar.org/ticket.html

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed previously... but oh well. There is a monthly pass from Lebanon to DT for $168, which comes out to $8.40/day if you ride 20 days/month.

It seems like they changed some of the routes recently. I was thinking there were more of them, but maybe not. The one that throws me... is there is a train that goes from Lebanon at 3:05pm to DT at 4:05pm, and another Mt Juliet 5pm to DT 5:35pm. But... if you want to go BACK to Lebanon or Mt Juliet.... you either have to catch the 5:05, 5:45, or wait til the next morning at 7am! The only thing I can think these routes would be useful for is for people who live DT and work in Mt Juliet or Lebanon. But seriously..... this seems crazy to me.

Edited June 22, 2006 by jice

[cheeriokid61]

That's probably what it is. A train for the reverse commuters. They're probably trying to handle everyone's needs, and if there aren't enough riders, they'll just cancel this trip.

[frankliner]

Reverse commuters at 3 PM though? I thought only schoolteachers got off at that time!! It just doesnt make sense to me. I could understand a 5 PM reverse commute trip or something like that. My only guess is that it has something to do with managing the amount of trains they have.

[jice]

Yeah... I can't imagine getting off and on the train in Lebanon by 3pm. Plus... I can't imagine there being enough reverse commuters that work in Lebanon & Mt Juliet to fill 2 train fulls... but, I could be wrong??

Edited June 22, 2006 by jice

[LA_TN]

All I can say is ...DAMN. If that's true then this commuter line will truely be dependant on high gas prices to earn riders. I tend to think the people who most need to ride the rails (from an economic and pollution standpoint) will also be the ones who are least likely to give up their gas-guzzeling SUV's and trucks. Anyone who is concerned about transportation economy has already purchased a fuel efficient car that can get them to nashville and back for less than $10 per day.

Of course, there could be a few riders who are willing to pay that much not to have to fight traffic, and possibly a few more who ride just for the novalty factor. Still, I think they could have and should have designed the system in such a way that the price would be $7 per day. All those fancy stations they're building are competely unnecessary (I'm thinking of the DT station, but I assume similar structures will be built along the line?). All they needed was a wooden platform and a gravel parking lot at each stop (except dowtown). If they wasted time and money by painting the rail cars in matching colors then they deserve to go bankrupt.

All I can say is ...I disagree - a lot. At 30 mpg from Lebanon to Nashville and back is, say, 2 gallons x 2.75 = 5.50. Plus $5 to park. Plus vechile wear and tear. Plus reduced car ins rate (if one had accurately reported driving distance to work). Add safety, reduced potential of accidents (would be bad if hit by someone with no ins $$$). Plus reduced stress. Plus reliable transportation with no occasional delays (rain/snow, accidents, traffic jams, icy Stones River bridge ha-ha!) which result in a predictable schedule......Seems like there's not much to debate here, very economical transportation

However, the rate from Leb to Nash is $5 vs. Donnelson to Nash is $4...what's up with that? Seems like it should be about $1

[Kheldane]

All I can say is ...I disagree - a lot. At 30 mpg from Lebanon to Nashville and back is, say, 2 gallons x 2.75 = 5.50. Plus $5 to park. Plus vechile wear and tear. Plus reduced car ins rate (if one had accurately reported driving distance to work). Add safety, reduced potential of accidents (would be bad if hit by someone with no ins $$$). Plus reduced stress. Plus reliable transportation with no occasional delays (rain/snow, accidents, traffic jams, icy Stones River bridge ha-ha!) which result in a predictable schedule......Seems like there's not much to debate here, very economical transportation

$10 per day? Maybe vehicle wear and tear would average out to $2 per day, but for most people, auto depreciation is an obscure concept that seems far removed from their day-to-day cash flow needs. That price will turn a lot of people away.

Now I do agree that some people will pay more to avoid traffic and stress. But I really don't see how you could expect a large number of commuters choosing the rail for economic reasons based on the $10 price. Don't forget that people do value the independence of having their own vehicle in the city to go places after work or in case they have to make an unexpected trip during the day.

As for insurance, I doubt many people will be able to convince their insurance company to lower their rates. Maybe if the rail system planners had been smart they would have worked out some kind of exclusive insurance sponsorship deal where ridership would be tracked by the rail and communicated to the insurance company - thus proving to the ins. that people truely did ride the rails X number of days a month.

And for you to say that there would never be delays on the rail route seems a little over-optimistic to me. Based on my experience in riding subways, el.trains, and commuter rails in other cities, there can always be delays. Missing crews, broken crossing guards, conflicting freight traffic (surely the line is used for freight as well), bomb threats, police activities, inclement weather (fallen trees laying across the track after a tornado or ice-storm). You get the idea - there will be delays - - just delays of a different nature from what the auto commuter is used to. For example, no one ever calls in a bomb threat on your Escalade that necessitates you spending hours combing through the hidden compartments, but that could happen on a train. Especially considering the security attitude in this country now. Broken track switches, cross-tie fires, track maintenance..........

[frankliner]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6061600753.html

I came across this article when doing some research for work. I definitely find the attitudes of people here towards public transit to mirror what this survey is describing. Here is the seciton i found interesting:

"One thing common to the bottom of the list is an almost complete lack of public transit," Karlenzig said. "Out of the bottom 10 cities, with the exception of Detroit, they all have less than 5 percent public-transit ridership." Columbus, Ohio, came in at the very bottom of the list. Also in the last 10 were Nashville, Memphis, Fort Worth and Oklahoma City.

Such low numbers may reflect limited bus routes, irregular service hours and underserved areas, all of which can threaten a city's transit future, he said. "If cities don't have 5 percent ridership, people don't really think it's there. It's almost like it doesn't exist."

Anyway, thought this would be interesting with the commuter rail just now starting up and providing a new medium of public transit to the region...

[The Tot Pack]

Such low numbers may reflect limited bus routes, irregular service hours and underserved areas, all of which can threaten a city's transit future, he said. "If cities don't have 5 percent ridership, people don't really think it's there. It's almost like it doesn't exist."

wait...WE HAVE A TRANSIT SYSTEM!

And I agree that people would rather drive their cars then pay 100 and something dollars a month to ride a train..that doesn't run all the time. Seriously, would you fork over that much money to ride a train TWICE A DAY?! Does this make sense?

[Kheldane]

wait...WE HAVE A TRANSIT SYSTEM!

And I agree that people would rather drive their cars then pay 100 and something dollars a month to ride a train.....

If one were to ride it every day at $10 per day that would be about $200 per month.

I hope it works somehow, but I have my doubts.

Edited June 23, 2006 by Kheldane

[smeagolsfree]

If one were to ride it every day at $10 per day that would be about $200 per month.

I hope it works somehow, but I have my doubts.

I think they have monthly passes for like 140 dollars. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure it was under 200.

[cheeriokid61]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was like 168. That sounds about right.

[nashvillwill]

According to minuites from the last meeting the "Grand Opening" is Sept. 15th with the start of service on Sept. 18th. Finally!!!

[smeagolsfree]

An article from the Tennessean today. Rail cannot afford 200 million dollars in liability insurance. Will we ever roll woth thi project????

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9/1197/COUNTY01

[nashscan]

An article from the Tennessean today. Rail cannot afford 200 million dollars in liability insurance. Will we ever roll woth thi project????

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9/1197/COUNTY01

I don't think this will stall the MCS. The feds never told local leadership we must have 200 million in liability.

[jice]

I don't think this will stall the MCS. The feds never told local leadership we must have 200 million in liability.

They were talking about this on the radio this morning. It sounded, from what they were saying, like it's still a go... just with less insurance.

[nashvillwill]

This is actually old news. I believe the article is simply a case of a nay-sayer trying to convince other people that the line is already a failure before it even gets off the ground. Some people simply dont understand the benefits of mass transit and cant fathom why any of us would want to give up our H2 for a "stinky ol' train".

[nashscan]

No kidding. The media is so worried about this liability issue. what they should be worried about are illegal immigrant drivers and people driving without insurance.

[Kheldane]

I was looking at the Nashville Star website - man, this thing is going to be awsome. I'm going to have to drive out to the east side and pretend-commute in one morning just to experience it. We definitely need to have the October forum meet on the train (does it run saturdays? - I should check the site).

Of course, I question why they had to spend so much on the stations - looks like a huge waste creating so much overhead. But then again, I question a lot of things

The photo section of the site was awsome...I wish all suburbs had this!

[jice]

Interesting... they put a cost comparison on the musiccitystar.org website for driving vs riding rail. Link

<edit>

I swear... I think someone working for the Star has been monitoring UrbanPlanet lol. They have a FAQ that seems to answer quite a few of the questions we have discussed here. Notably... how to get from the downtown station to your work, what happens if you need to leave for home for an emergency, and if the train runs for special events.

Edited July 15, 2006 by jice

[cheeriokid61]

That FAQ was very helpful. I really like this project so much more now. I think they're doing it right. Like having free tickets on MTA buses and having dedicated shuttles. That's a smart move, as is the idea for the emergencies. I'm starting to have a lot more confidence in this project. And that cost comparison should really help people get over the price of the tickets.

[Kheldane]

I swear... I think someone working for the Star has been monitoring UrbanPlanet lol. They have a FAQ that seems to answer quite a few of the questions we have discussed here. Notably... how to get from the downtown station to your work, what happens if you need to leave for home for an emergency, and if the train runs for special events.

LOL, I know! I saw that FAQ. The funniest part was where it said something like "Why should government pay for rail?". I thought that was especially ironic...

[LA_TN]

<edit>

I swear... I think someone working for the Star has been monitoring UrbanPlanet lol. They have a FAQ that seems to answer quite a few of the questions we have discussed here. Notably... how to get from the downtown station to your work, what happens if you need to leave for home for an emergency, and if the train runs for special events.

Actually, although I noticed that FAQ was June 2006; these have all been listed previously for a long, long time