The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[ATLBrain]

No one knows except RTA, and they'll release the information as soon as it becomes available. Its generally thought the next line will either be to Hendersonville-Gallatin or Smyrna-Murfreesboro.

If 640 riders a day are riding the Lebanon line, I'd expect it to be larger for these other routes. Lebanon is a small town of barely 15,000 residents, Mt Juliet has maybe 25,000 these days.

Murfreesboro alone has approx. 80,000 residents and Hendersonville is approx. 50,000 according to the latest estimates. Add on the other bedroom communities like Gallatin, Madison, LaVergne, Smyrna, Antioch and these other communities have such a higher population that its kind of funny they didn't persue the larger areas first.

Hendersonville even has a plan to build a little downtown shopping area if I'm not mistaking around their commuter rail stop, should it happen.

Providence is being built in Mt. Juliet, but even that community is a few blocks south of the actual stop on the rail line.

The Murfreesboro route makes a lot of sense, but so would the Hendersonville/Gallatin route.

BTW: You are correct about the Hendersonville town center. It is already well underway on both sides of the CSX line. Currently, there are two lifestyle centers under construction, a Rave 16 screen theatre like the one in Chattanooga (the best one I've ever been to by the way)...

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:udIEAF...=2&ie=UTF-8

From the above link:

Indian Lake Village, the 265-acre development by Halo Properties LLC, situated at the intersection of S.R. 386 (Vietnam Veterans) and the recently completed Indian Lake Boulevard, unanimously won its final round of approvals last week from Hendersonville Board of Mayor and Alderman. Touted by many as the new

Edited October 20, 2006 by ATLBrain

[frankliner]

Wow, this is great news. If I remember correctly, the first week's ridership was 500 daily riders so that means that they have added much more than 200 daily riders (for it to average out to 640 for the month). I think their target for the first year was 1000 a day. So, hopefully there are well over 700 daily riders now and they are well on their way!!

[QuietMike]

The Tennessean is reporting that the MCS will be offering "Game Day Express" service to the Titans vs. Ravens game on November 12. Round trip ticket is $20. Sounds like fun to me!

[rocky top buzz]

The Tennessean is reporting that the MCS will be offering "Game Day Express" service to the Titans vs. Ravens game on November 12. Round trip ticket is $20. Sounds like fun to me!

$20 a person? You can park a 7 passenger mini-van downtown for $10! That would be $140 to take the train????

[frankliner]

It does sound pricey. I hope people do ride it. I'd do it for the novelty (it'd make a special event better imo). I'll be interested to see how many people make use of it and I'm just glad that they are offering it so fast after the launch of the entire network.

[monsoon]

$20 a person? You can park a 7 passenger mini-van downtown for $10! That would be $140 to take the train????

How many people do you think will be arriving in Nashvile piled up 7 people in a mini-van? I can say that I don't even know anyone that drives one. It's an unrealistic situation for most people I would say as it would be my guess that most people come 2-3 to a vehicle.

If a couple goes to the game, it will cost them a net of $20 to ride the train and they save the wear and tear on the vehicle and the gasoline it takes to get there. I say they are getting a bargain by having a train to ride in.

[ATLBrain]

Sounds fun... I'd do it.

[rocky top buzz]

oh, don't get me wrong, I do think it would be fun to take the train; it just seems to me they are pricing out the market.

As for the minivan thing, yes, a lot of people around here drive minivans. But we could even say an SUV. Titan's games have a lot of tailgaiters like college, so yes, you typically have more people in a vehicle than perhaps at other NFL stadiums. Metro, are you in Atlanta? Because if so, tailgaiting down there is nothing like up here.

[BrandonTO416]

oh, don't get me wrong, I do think it would be fun to take the train; it just seems to me they are pricing out the market.

As for the minivan thing, yes, a lot of people around here drive minivans. But we could even say an SUV. Titan's games have a lot of tailgaiters like college, so yes, you typically have more people in a vehicle than perhaps at other NFL stadiums. Metro, are you in Atlanta? Because if so, tailgaiting down there is nothing like up here.

Have you noticed that you complain about the $5.00 fee, but you oppose public spending for rail projects?

The only way you can reduce that $5.00 is by instituting a bigger operational revenue source via taxes for the train, and that's how you lower the price.

But wait, you're opposed to that, and you think the train should fund itself.

Catch 22.

It goes to show you how some of us scratch our heads as to why you say you support rail when you have been giving contradictory information ever since the beginning of the discussion.

I think we need more infrastructure spending for both roadways and rail in America. Infrastructure doesn't fund itself, and you can't expect a user fee to maintain it whether its a toll on a highway or a passenger ticket on rail.

[nashvillwill]

Personally, i don't think the price is steep. No, i wouldn't pay the $20 roundtrip to go to work an back. However, I would love the chance to effortlessly go to a Titans game with a group of friends. Instead of my typical "i'll pick you up, then you, then you, and we'll meet them after we find parking, wherever that is". It would be more of a "be at the station at this time. we'll all ride together, talk football, get excited, and all be together". By the way, we can all drink and no one has to worry! That is what i would pay the 20 spot for. That would be a dream come true!

Unfortunately, I dont live anywhere near the rails.

[nashvillwill]

^^^to elaborate on my last post....

This should not (although it could be) seen as a cost savings measure. Certain people will save money, some won't. It is more of a comfort for game goers. I remember my days in NYC going to Yankees games. Riding the subway to the bronx with hundreds of strangers wearing Yankees appearal, would often break out in spontanious chants of "here we go Yankees, here we go, clap, clap!" There is something surreal about it that you can't get on the roads in gridlock, yelling out car windows at other fans. And as i said before the comfort of being able to drink responsibly is a huge plus!

This is a great service to the fans of the game, AND more importantly a GREAT recruiting tool. Some people that might not ride The Star otherwise, could take it to the game and back, decide they like it, and begin using The Star on a daily basis. It's win-win.

[frankliner]

Two interesting articles today.

The one from the Tennessean doesn't really say anything new other than if they get enough people for the first Titans game they might lower the cost for subsequent games on the Star.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../610270401/1001

The one in the city paper is intriguing because this is the first I have heard about reutilising the Demonbreun Landport. I am glad that MTA is starting to think about that more (instead of just letting it sit around). It will be a good resource if (and hopefully when) the other rail spokes start coming online.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...p;news_id=52958

[Kheldane]

The one in the city paper is intriguing because this is the first I have heard about reutilising the Demonbreun Landport. I am glad that MTA is starting to think about that more (instead of just letting it sit around). It will be a good resource if (and hopefully when) the other rail spokes start coming online.

Agreed, that landport is the obvious choice for a gulch station because it's already built and because it's on the downtown side of the tracks and relatively close to the greyhound bus station.

By the way, I still haven't heard any indication of how they plan to convince CSX to let them use their track space. Maybe leasing the right-of-ways is what they have in mind. I really hope they don't do BRT, that would just be retarded. I think they would have huge ridership if they did a commuter line similar to the lebanon line on the southeast (m-boro to nashville with airport stop) and south (columbia to nashville) sides of town. Oh, and the northeast (gallatin to nashville) side would also probably be very successful.

[nashvillwill]

Agreed, that landport is the obvious choice for a gulch station because it's already built and because it's on the downtown side of the tracks and relatively close to the greyhound bus station.

By the way, I still haven't heard any indication of how they plan to convince CSX to let them use their track space. Maybe leasing the right-of-ways is what they have in mind. I really hope they don't do BRT, that would just be retarded. I think they would have huge ridership if they did a commuter line similar to the lebanon line on the southeast (m-boro to nashville with airport stop) and south (columbia to nashville) sides of town. Oh, and the northeast (gallatin to nashville) side would also probably be very successful.

I hate to burst your bubble Kheldane, but I went to a RTA Southeastern Alignment Planning Commission meeting a few months ago, and they seemed to favor BRT. They have considered everything from LRT, BRT, heavy/light rail, and commuter rail, and as a cost measure they seem set on BRT straight down I-24 HOV lanes. Cheapest option? Yes. Worthwhile? doubt it.

Earliest implimentation....5-7 years.

Edited October 27, 2006 by nashvillwill

[frankliner]

I hate to burst your bubble Kheldane, but I went to a RTA Southeastern Alignment Planning Commission meeting a few months ago, and they seemed to favor BRT. They have considered everything from LRT, BRT, heavy/light rail, and commuter rail, and as a cost measure they seem set on BRT straight down I-24 HOV lanes. Cheapest option? Yes. Worthwhile? doubt it.

Earliest implimentation....5-7 years.

Your report makes my head hurt, lol. Certainly not what I wanted to hear for that leg.

[Kheldane]

I hate to burst your bubble Kheldane, but I went to a RTA Southeastern Alignment Planning Commission meeting a few months ago, and they seemed to favor BRT. They have considered everything from LRT, BRT, heavy/light rail, and commuter rail, and as a cost measure they seem set on BRT straight down I-24 HOV lanes. Cheapest option? Yes. Worthwhile? doubt it.

Earliest implimentation....5-7 years.

They probably think commuter rail is too expensive because they're trying to fund it like the lebanon line - that is; fully with government funds. What they should be doing is strong-arming CSX into funding and operating it, and just paying them some kind of "inconvenience fee" , and maybe covering their liability insurance. Plus they don't need to build the elaborate stations that were constructed on the lebanon line.

So sure, maybe commuter rail is too expensive the way they want it to be, but the way they want it to be is retarded and overly extravagant. I'm talking gravel or grass parking lots, cheap press-board construction platforms, tents instead of awnings. A plastic sign that says "Smyrna Station" or whatever. I guarantee I could build each station for less than $5000 - well, maybe . I guarantee a Kheldane-quality station would be way cheaper than the station those arrogant urban planners are talking about. And the trains - we should seek out some more of those $1 per car deals around the country. And we should turn our local youth loose on the trains and let them spray-paint them with the Music City Star logo - and other logos they see fit to paint...

[ATLBrain]

What they should be doing is strong-arming CSX into funding and operating it, and just paying them some kind of "inconvenience fee" , and maybe covering their liability insurance.

So how would you propose strong-arming CSX? Don't they own all the rights of way for the other routes?

In the absence of an agreement with CSX, the RTA obviously needs a backup plan. Hasn't the point been made that they won't be able to build all the other lines as economically as the Lebanon route?

[frankliner]

And we should turn our local youth loose on the trains and let them spray-paint them with the Music City Star logo - and other logos they see fit to paint...

I shuddered when I saw this statement. Shuddered...lol

[nashvillwill]

Just to elaborate on my previous post, there are still 3 probable options.

Heavy Rail, High speed Rail, LRT-- all deemed too expensive and irrational

3 remaining options:

1- BRT M'boro Rd--430 million (I'm not sure what kind of right-of-ways this would entail)

2- BRT I-24--220 million-- This alternative (the cheapest, and most probable, would use I-24 HOV lanes and normal off-ramps along with other traffic until it reaches dedicated lanes north of Briley Pkwy.

3-CSX Commuter Rail. This layout has three options as follows

option A; existing single track-230 million

option B; Double track north of Bell Rd.- 245 million

option C; Full double track- 330 million

all of these facts can be found at; download-"July Meetings-slideshow presentation"

I personally don't understand how the Commuter Rail option would cost so much while the Nashville-Eastern RR allowed the current MCS to be constructed for only 40 million. Is the CSX that important or influential? What is their objection to being paid more? I have heard that their lines are used to capacity, but this seems like bad business. First of all, The N-E RR got a sweet deal w/the MCS. The RTA got the funding to totally rebuild their line to a smoother more high-speed track AND the RR will be paid rent per use. What a freaking steal!!

CSX...hmm? If I own a profitable barber shop with 1 chair, I don't tell those in line "sorry, I dont have room for you", I go an get a 2nd chair!!!! If one of the RTA's options is to build a full double track all the way to the 'boro, obviously it can be done. So why doesn't CSX do it? I suppose they want the same sweet deal that the N-E RR got. Is this typical around the country?

I personally am outraged by the way our city/state/country doesn't give a hoot about mass transit, yet I also understand that I am in a major minority. Until something happens I guess I have no choice but to pay two-whatever per gallon, drive on our roads and watch trillions of dollars be paved, torn up, and paved all over again.

sorry for the rant

P.S.-- I suddenly realize how sad it is that I have just done this on a friday night. Cheers!

Edited October 28, 2006 by nashvillwill

[ATLBrain]

I suddenly realize how sad it is that I have just done this on a friday night. Cheers!

LOL... At least you can watch the World Series. I've got it on and this forum (and my other favorite one) up and a four year old "winding up" next to me at every pitch.

Edited October 28, 2006 by ATLBrain

[nashvillwill]

LOL... At least you can watch the World Series. I've got it on and this forum (and my other favorite one) up and a four year old "winding up" next to me at every pitch.

Yeah, that's true. Go Mets!! oh...no, wait?! (more crying)

[jice]

The one in the city paper is intriguing because this is the first I have heard about reutilising the Demonbreun Landport. I am glad that MTA is starting to think about that more (instead of just letting it sit around). It will be a good resource if (and hopefully when) the other rail spokes start coming online.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...p;news_id=52958

It has to be used for transportation purposes... but yet they are trying to find new uses for it, and decide if buses should even stop there again? What else could they use it for, related to transportation, if not for bus stops?

[Jonny11788]

Does anyone know how successful the train for the Titans game was; if it had good crowds?

[nashscan]

Does anyone know how successful the train for the Titans game was; if it had good crowds?

The train doesn't run on Sundays.

[ATLBrain]

They did announce that it was going to make Titans runs. Did they do it last home game?