The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[franktown]

I read this and thought it was a neat promotion...rewarding their riders with coffee.

Music City Star to give away coffee to riders

Some interesting tidbits from the article to me were: rider numbers, numbers for the Titans games, and they said a sense of community is developing, which I think is really neat. I didn't know that there was a stand selling coffee and hot chocolate to people....that's really neat, kinda like a big city. Glad to see that ridership is up, too

[BrandonTO416]

The article is encouraging, and the 500 riders sounds like a good start for a commuter system in a city that has not had cohesive transit in decades.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I'm on vacation next week and I think I'm going to set aside one day to ride the train into downtown, walk over to the Frist Center and then lunch and then hop the train back to my car.

[nashvillwill]

I'm on vacation next week and I think I'm going to set aside one day to ride the train into downtown, walk over to the Frist Center and then lunch and then hop the train back to my car.

hey man, that sounds like a hell of a time. I wish I could join you. A word of advice though, I know alot of people that have been mislead by the train schedule. You have to look very closely at the mid-day trains, two of them are actually a bus (look for the astrisk *), which denotes a bus, not train. But after 4:15 or so, it's all rails. The schedule might be a little misleading, but anyone that has ever used mass transit can figure it out. Have fun, and happy holidays!

[FromParkAveToTN]

Thanks for the tip. I really appreciate that and Happy Holidays to you as well.

[ATLBrain]

Have a sprawly, jolly Christmas... So how far is this Mt. Juliet project from the train? Yuk, WalMart.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...UNTY10/61221020

[BnaBreaker]

Have a sprawly, jolly Christmas... So how far is this Mt. Juliet project from the train? Yuk, WalMart.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...UNTY10/61221020

God, that makes me sick. The same old fashioned good ole boys making the same ole outdated decisions based on outdated thinking and development strategy. What a freaking waste.

[stereoboy76]

HI, I wish the rail system would run more often. It is only good if you work downtown Nashville. It would be nice if it ran every hour from early morning to late night. It would be cool if I wanted to goto downtown to shop for a couple hours and return home I could do it via rail rather that the busy and annoying interstates.

[nashvillwill]

Well stereoboy, the solution to that problem is........(drumroll)........more people like you. It's simple, the more people willing to ride the rails. the more service provided. Tell your friends, tell your mom, tell your dog..ride the Star and it will be easier the next time and again. It might sound like a pipe-dream but most places in the country that have commuter rail, end up with all day, both way service. People just have to embrace it!

[southsideJ]

Green Hills is getting a mini-bus which will run a continuous route--I'm guessing that means a continuous route throughout Green Hills. I am wondering a couple of things here. Do they really mean ONE mini-bus? http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/uploads/emoticons/default_shades.gif' alt=':shades:'> Also if its not electric, why not--its mini, its new, it could have easily been electric. Chattanooga has the right idea.

[nashvillwill]

FYI, if anyone wants a free ride on the MCS, take the train today (monday). the MCS if promoting "friends and co-workers ride free day" today. anyone that buys a ticket and or monthly pass holders can bring someone along for free.

[jice]

Have a sprawly, jolly Christmas... So how far is this Mt. Juliet project from the train? Yuk, WalMart.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...UNTY10/61221020

It looks like walking distance to me. If you look at the address on google maps, its just a few blocks from the intersection of east division & 171, where the MCS station is.

[Wild Style]

Hey guys,

Has transit authority there said anything about what they will do for mass transit with in city limits? i.e. will the bring subway or elevated train or light rail to Nashville in the distant future?

[nashvillwill]

HA! none of the above. i believe there have been feasability studies for light rail, but they have mostly been ignored. our bus system (even with rapidly increasing ridership) is hanging on by a thread. also, any expansion of the MCS (commuter rail) is light-years away.

on a positive note, there are solid plans for a new transit (bus) hub downtown. although wholy unimpressive, it is a step forward. it moves our current hub from an outdoor facility to an indoor transfer station. it should help things.

however, any serious transit in Nashville is a loooooooong way off.

[barakat]

I just ran across this. Can anyone elaborate? Is it serious?

RESOLUTION NO. RS2006-1647

A resolution requesting the Regional Transportation Authority to take the action necessary to construct a light rail commuter line between downtown Nashville and Ashland City, Tennessee.

WHEREAS, on September 18, 2006, the Regional Transportation Authority commenced service of the Music City Star commuter rail line running from Lebanon to downtown Nashville, with stops in Mt. Juliet, Hermitage and Donelson; and

WHEREAS, after figuring in the price of gasoline, as well as wear and tear on automobiles, light rail is an economical means of commuting from suburban areas to and from work; and

WHEREAS, light rail offers many benefits to the environment by reducing traffic congestion and improving air quality; and

WHEREAS, light rail further offers passengers an opportunity to relax while commuting without facing the stress of battling traffic; and

WHEREAS, the Regional Transportation Authority has plans to expand commuter light rail service to a transit network connecting downtown Nashville with other areas in the region, including northern Cheatham County; and

WHEREAS, citizens within the northwest area of Middle Tennessee would greatly benefit from light rail service; and

WHEREAS, it is fitting and proper that the Regional Transportation Authority take steps toward securing funding for a light rail extension from Nashville to northern Cheatham County.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE METROPOLITAN GOVERNMENT OF NASHVILLE AND DAVIDSON COUNTY:

Section 1. That the Metropolitan County Council hereby goes on record as requesting the Regional Transportation Authority to take the action necessary to construct a light rail commuter line between downtown Nashville and Ashland City, Tennessee.

Section 2. The Metropolitan Clerk is directed to send a copy of this Resolution to the Regional Transportation Authority.

Section 3. That this Resolution shall take effect from and after its adoption, the welfare of The Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County requiring it.

Sponsored by: Jamie Isabel

[QuietMike]

According to the Metro Council website, that resolution was adopted on December 5, 2006 but "returned unsigned by mayor" on December 11, 2006. I doubt the Ashland City leg will be the next one to get going, absent a champion on the local, state, and federal level pushing hard. Perhaps Councilman Isabel is the man on a local level. I suppose another way Ashland City could jump in line would be if there was a breakthrough on track availability or some other compelling reason, on an expense basis, to get it going.

[southsideJ]

I just ran across this. Can anyone elaborate? Is it serious?

RESOLUTION NO. RS2006-1647

A resolution requesting the Regional Transportation Authority to take the action necessary to construct a light rail commuter line between downtown Nashville and Ashland City, Tennessee.

WHEREAS, on September 18, 2006, the Regional Transportation Authority commenced service of the Music City Star commuter rail line running from Lebanon to downtown Nashville, with stops in Mt. Juliet, Hermitage and Donelson; and

WHEREAS, after figuring in the price of gasoline, as well as wear and tear on automobiles, light rail is an economical means of commuting from suburban areas to and from work; and

WHEREAS, light rail offers many benefits to the environment by reducing traffic congestion and improving air quality; and

WHEREAS, light rail further offers passengers an opportunity to relax while commuting without facing the stress of battling traffic; and

WHEREAS, the Regional Transportation Authority has plans to expand commuter light rail service to a transit network connecting downtown Nashville with other areas in the region, including northern Cheatham County; and

WHEREAS, citizens within the northwest area of Middle Tennessee would greatly benefit from light rail service; and

WHEREAS, it is fitting and proper that the Regional Transportation Authority take steps toward securing funding for a light rail extension from Nashville to northern Cheatham County.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE METROPOLITAN GOVERNMENT OF NASHVILLE AND DAVIDSON COUNTY:

Section 1. That the Metropolitan County Council hereby goes on record as requesting the Regional Transportation Authority to take the action necessary to construct a light rail commuter line between downtown Nashville and Ashland City, Tennessee.

Section 2. The Metropolitan Clerk is directed to send a copy of this Resolution to the Regional Transportation Authority.

Section 3. That this Resolution shall take effect from and after its adoption, the welfare of The Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County requiring it.

Sponsored by: Jamie Isabel

sounds like an attempt at getting the wheels moving on the Northwest line to Northern Cheatam County including Ashland City, as put by the Music City Star.

I would be surprised if this line got going before the Southeast line--but then again who thought the line to Lebanon would be built first?

BTW, barakat, can you provide a link to that resolution? thx

Edited February 5, 2007 by southsideJ

[franktown]

Yeah, didn't see that coming....I would have put the Rutherford, Wilco line, Hendersonville line, and even the Bellevue line above that one in probability of happening, but I guess it's just a councilmember. Why would a Metro councilperson push for them to build it to AC? It seems they would be more interested in them building to a more popular place in Davidson Cty.

[nashvillwill]

maybe that council person lives in Ashland city. i'm guessing the bill would include a lifetime pass for said council person.

[MidTenn1]

maybe that council person lives in Ashland city. i'm guessing the bill would include a lifetime pass for said council person.

Like the line to Lebanon, there is an existing shortline railroad right-of-way. However, the line is in terrible shape and would require much more repair than the Lebanon line did. And that would include the bridge over the Cumberland at Bordeaux. Cheatham County has been trying every way possible to get that line back in operation to serve the industrial park just east of Ashland City including having it belatedly put on the list of future commuter lines.

I don't know where the commuter demand would come from either. Ashland City has just under 5,000 residents and there are no population centers between AC and Bordeaux. I doubt commuters from Clarksville would park and ride. Its easier to go on and drive to Nashville.

There may still be right-of-way available between AC and Clarksville, but there are no rails. So completing that connection would be extremely costly also.

So I guess the point I am making is that there are some things in place to help move such a project along, but I think there are still huge obstacles to overcome.

[nashvillwill]

It seems that right-of-way has such a pivital role in these decisions. Yet it also seems that it is dictating which lines are built. It also seems that the right-of-ways that are easy to obtain lead to areas less "in need" of commuter rail. I'm sure the reason is as simple as it seems. However, is there no such thing as eminent domain for rail lines? I'm not suggesting that we take over private rails on the congested lines, just suggesting building beside current rails. I know that government has the right to 8 feet or so of my front yard for roadway expansion. Does this not apply to railroads?

Now, before someone ridicules me, I do realize the technical challenges. Obviously, bridges would need to be wider, and maybe huge areas of below-grade bedrock. But is it impossible, to make these commuter and commercial lines coexist? Can't we serve industry, and it's workers/customers at the same time?

I dunno....just a thought.

Edited February 6, 2007 by nashvillwill

[monsoon]

..... However, is there no such thing as eminent domain for rail lines? ....

If you mean, can local governments use their power of eminent domain to seize control of a railroad, then the answer is pretty much no in most cases. Railroad ROWs were granted sometimes more than 100 years ago by the Federal and State governments. This was done so the rail companies would build rails to new cities. In return the railroads get exclusive rights to those ROWs and there is very little that can be done to change that. Furthermore in many cases, the ROWs stipulate that if the line is abandoned by the railroads, then the land is returned to the original owners of that land. (or their heirs as now is the case) The specifics of any RR ROW would have to be examined but it is unlikely that a municipality will have the legal authority to take over RR from an operating RR company.

If you mean can local governments use their power of eminent domain to take someone's land to build a RR, then yes that is possible. But given the today's subdivisions it can require taking small pieces of land from 100s of land owners. It's an expensive and difficult process and the courts have ruled that governments have to pay market prices for the land.

Because of this, most commuter rail is being built on active freight lines and some agreement is reached with the RR company for compensation for use. In many cases the RR company is happy to get into these agreements as the upgrades to the tracks (often neglected) required for passenger safety is something they want. However in some cases it goes bad as it did in Raleigh were CSX (I believe it was that one) placed so many conditions on the use of their tracks that it pushed up costs too high for that line to be built. it's currently on permanent hold.

[smeagolsfree]

This certainly is interesting to me because I live in Ashland City. There are two 10 story condo towers going up not to mention two good sized sub-divisions that I know about. There is a lot of potential in this area and very little growth has taken place yet. Cheatham County is known as the last frontier for development in the Metro area. What better way to get people use to riding the rail before they start using their cars into town. As far as my work I would not be able to use it because I am all over the place, but I would use it if I had a trip to go into town for the day. Most of the route on along Hwy 12 is in Davidson County. Much of that land will be more difficult to develop but it can be done if the developers want to spend the money for the infrastructure. Many areas in S.Davidson close to Brentwood have the same type of terrain. There have been plans for the Bells Bend area that have been put on hold, but I think you will see something happen there before long. A rail station @ Old Hickory would be one of the stops I would imagine, along with Bordeaux and Metro Center.

To answer the question about the rail line to Ashland City now. Well the line is back open and has been for two years. It serves all of the industrial and mfg plants that are along the river here. Also Metro worked out an agreement with CSX or whatever rail runs to Lebanon to use those lines. I think this is a BNO/Nashville line. Not sure about that. I do know there is a lot of work going on the tracks along Hwy 12 right now.

[smeagolsfree]

Look closely at this and notice this says Light Rail, not heavy rail. So, would they use exsisting heavy rail lines for a light rail system?

[monsoon]

Look closely at this and notice this says Light Rail, not heavy rail. So, would they use exsisting heavy rail lines for a light rail system?

The quick answer to your question is No. Light Rail can not share tracks with freight traffic for safety reasons. I saw they had mentioned light rail in the resolution and I assumed that was simply a mistake on the part of the author. Given the description they most likely mean commuter rail.