The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.nashvillechamber.com/blog/2017/even-with-new-transit-surcharge-nashvilles-total-tax-burden-among-the-lowest

Just saw this. Not too shabby. 

[volsfanwill]

13 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

I’m not sure how many times I’ve sent these links to people. More roads equals more traffic. They aren’t the answer, I’ve made maybe 2 people think differently, BEGRUDGINGLY about transit haha.

thanks Paul

[volsfanwill]

I spoke to a friend today, whom I took for granted as a yes vote, told me that she is leaning no.

her neighbor told her that because they live next to charlotte pike(sylvan heights), that their property taxes will increase. And that her parent's (west end) will not.  when I told her it is a sales tax and not a property tax, she looked at me like I had 3 heads. 

 

On the upside, she asked me to come to her house and explain this  to her and her neighbors.  so I'm contacting transit for Nashville monday to get as much proper documentation as I can to do this. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by volsfanwill

[timmay143]

Well, technically, it COULD raise property taxes...by bringing a more desire to live there and positive development in the area.

BTW, if I were living there now, I would be more than likely to vote YES.  However, I can appreciate some of the opposition, especially in regards to being fiscally conservative.  I lean more on the left side of things, but try to keep an independent and middle-of-the-road view, especially being conscientious of spending.  However, I do not see transportation getting better for Nashville, especially if it remains on the current status quo.  Roads are, and always will be a complete money pit.  In fact, all transport is to some extent.

So the proposed plan is not perfect, but there is no perfect plan.  It does provide a funding source for future projects and improvements regarding transit.  The 0.5% sales tax increase seems to be "the best" approach, especially since we have such a high tourism industry.  Not an income tax, not a gas tax, not a property tax.

It also provides another option for many Nashvillians.  Right-of-way mass transport.  I absolutely ABHOR driving.  It amazes me how many people are illiterate.  I am all for autonomous vehicles or, if I had the option, a well rounded transport system.

If my parents just didn't sell their house of 35 years to move to Huntsville to be closer to me, I would have the opportunity in the future to be a short walk from the Nolensville Rd line.  I would have loved to see that transpire.  Of course there will be construction headaches, and we need a WELL-ROUNDED system, including sidewalks, driver AND pedestrian education, and affordable housing.

That is one of my biggest fears for this city, is the crazy hike in affordability.  It was one of the reasons why we became the "IT" city.  I get the economics of supply and demand.  Bottom line for everyone is $$$, especially developers.  It is only going to go up if you desire this type of growth, but there has to be some middle ground.  I believe the transit lines could help provide and alleviate some housing woes.  Look at Charlotte, SLC, to name a few, for encouraging developments around transit lines.  I get, that people enjoy having their own yards in traditional single family homes, which is why the well-rounded comes into play with available commuter options, such as rail.  For me, and probably a majority of my generation, it comes down to what is more important to you.  I would love to have a house and a yard, but I HATE, HATE, commuting!!  I would rather sacrifice a house and yard and having to purchase multiple vehicles if I could avoid driving to work everyday.  Of course, one option could be, telecommuting more often.  However, I would rather be able to WALK or bicycle most places if given the option.

I get this is not for everyone.  We are all different, and we do what we have to do to survive.  Just my random rambling 2-cents.

[smeagolsfree]

I am not seeing Mayor Briley taking the lead on the transit issue. For the most part he is a quiet church mouse cowering the corner. He needs to lead and get out and rally the voters and I am not seeing this. 

He may be fine to finish out Berry's term, but I do not see him winning the next election unless he changes his ways. The transit referendum may fail as well if the council people and the mayor get out this last month or so and push like they have never pushed for something before.

 

 

[nashwatcher]

6 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I am not seeing Mayor Briley taking the lead on the transit issue. For the most part he is a quiet church mouse cowering the corner. He needs to lead and get out and rally the voters and I am not seeing this. 

He may be fine to finish out Berry's term, but I do not see him winning the next election unless he changes his ways. The transit referendum may fail as well if the council people and the mayor get out this last month or so and push like they have never pushed for something before.

 

 

Agree. The need to get vocal and educate the public! Don’t just sit on the sidelines

[markhollin]

Debunking the Top 5 Nashville Transit Myths. New piece by the Chamber of Commerce:

https://www.nashvillechamber.com/blog/2018/debunking-the-top-5-nashville-transit-myths

[WebberThomas4]

 

[BnaBreaker]

18 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Debunking the Top 5 Nashville Transit Myths. New piece by the Chamber of Commerce:

https://www.nashvillechamber.com/blog/2018/debunking-the-top-5-nashville-transit-myths

This needs to be spread far amd wide.

[CenterHill]

7 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I am not seeing Mayor Briley taking the lead on the transit issue. For the most part he is a quiet church mouse cowering the corner. He needs to lead and get out and rally the voters and I am not seeing this. 

He may be fine to finish out Berry's term, but I do not see him winning the next election unless he changes his ways. The transit referendum may fail as well if the council people and the mayor get out this last month or so and push like they have never pushed for something before.

 

 

He's been a very vocal supporter on social media (ie, twitter) and at community meetings.     

[Guest]

The talking points from the Chamber would be more impressive if the document cited the sources for the numbers used.

Let's take just one of the 'facts' listed in the document.

"Light rail in Salt Lake City reduced daily vehicle traffic by 50% on a specific corridor. Vehicle traffic was reduced from 44,000 to 22,3000."

I read this to say that the daily vehicle count on the specific corridor was 44,000 prior to mass transit and today (after mass transit) the daily vehicle count is 22,300.

Sounds impressive, yet no source is cited. I googled the exact phrase quoted and linked to a Planetizine article. This gives some clarification, "It estimates that a LRT line reduces daily from 44,000 (if it did not exist) to 22,300 (what actually occurs) on one arterial." So now we see the 44,000 number is not an actual daily vehicle count prior to mass transit, it is the ESTIMATED numbers if vehicles they believe would be utilizing the specific corridor in today ...17 years removed. Some of the bloom of the rose, but maybe still an impressive statistic if the original study has merit. Luckily a link to the original study is included in the Planetizine article ... but the link is dead. 

https://www.planetizen.com/node/69998

There are two articles I came across claiming mass transit does not relieve congestion and that high-rail just grabs riders off busses.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/02/27/do-light-rail-systems-help-cut-down-on-traffic-perhaps-not/?utm_term=.7c3950e4d781
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2013/02/does-light-rail-encourage-people-stop-driving/4800/

 

2 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

This needs to be spread far amd wide.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Guest

[markhollin]

Recieved this e-mail from Tranist for Nashville today:

Why is a tunnel the best option for Nashville?

• Any above ground options would have involved shutting down 4th or 5th avenues to other traffic, only to still have service interruptions during special events. 
• Experts agree that the most effective and efficient way to move people through downtown is a tunnel that leaves Lower Broadway untouched and open for business. 
• The tunnel will allow for passengers to get from one part of the city faster without transfers, and without slowing down any of the activities that make Nashville, Nashville. Whether you're headed to the Preds game or on your way home from work — a tunnel means transit can get you there faster.

Critics of the transit plan say that the limestone under downtown makes a tunnel unfeasible. But it’s just another false transit myth they’re pushing. The reality is that there are already tunnels downtown!
 

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/04/02/nashville-councilman-unveil-his-own-transit-plan-eve-early-voting-referendum/473017002/

 

[Neigeville2]

12 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/04/02/nashville-councilman-unveil-his-own-transit-plan-eve-early-voting-referendum/473017002/

 

It really hacks me off when these people that are just against something come popping out of the woodwork at the last minute like whatever they just thought of is a reason to abandon what has been  planned.  Where were they last year?  Why are they so convinced that whatever they just dreamed up is better than a plan carefully worked out over months and years?  The arrogance is dumbfounding. 

[nashvillwill]

16 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/04/02/nashville-councilman-unveil-his-own-transit-plan-eve-early-voting-referendum/473017002/

 

Sounds to me like his “plan” will be a grandiose idea of something, that could never feasibly be implemented, who’s only purpose is to split the “yes” camp in two. 

[Neigeville2]

Also Diane Black has an editorial in the Tennessean and is predictably ignorant and ill-informed.  She warns the transit plan will wreck the economy of the whole state (actually I think she's arguing that investing in infrastructure damages the economy).  No surprise, but if she becomes governor this will provide her an avenue to try to interfere in Nashville's business in ways that damage the city.  

[markhollin]

Mayor David Briley unveiled and signed the "Declaration of Transportation Independence" last night.  You can read it and add your name to it as well here:

https://transitindependence.com/

[jmtunafish]

9 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Mayor David Briley unveiled and signed the "Declaration of Transportation Independence" last night.  You can read it and add your name to it as well here:

https://transitindependence.com/

That makes a heck of a lot of sense.  I wonder how many more people could afford to live in Nashville if they didn't also have the financial burden of owning and maintaining a car.

[Guest]

^^ how many more people could live anywhere if they did not have the financial burden of 'X'? What is the logical conclusion of that thought? Should we also subsidize close in housing so more people can live in Nashville and on the new transit routes?
As we are voting on in May transit is not free. As we see annually when we pay property taxes, education is not free, healthcare is not free, ...nothing is free. 




 

[Tennessine]

18 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

^^ how many more people could live anywhere if they did not have the financial burden of 'X'? What is the logical conclusion of that thought? Should we also subsidize close in housing so more people can live in Nashville and on the new transit routes?
As we are voting on in May transit is not free. As we see annually when we pay property taxes, education is not free, healthcare is not free, ...nothing is free. 




 

Of course not, but these are things that make life better for ourselves. Like healthcare and education, it is in the best interest of the city to pay for viable transit alternatives.

[Guest]

Again, I am not in disagreement with JMtunafish nor your thoughts in theory. However, in practice we have all seen both unexpected, negative consequences from such thoughts brought to fruition.  

Not to prolong the post, but I just read multiple articles proclaiming  'equality equals equity' in one form or another.... a proposition against which I register the utmost contempt.

 

1 hour ago, nativetenn said:

Of course not, but these are things that make life better for ourselves. Like healthcare and education, it is in the best interest of the city to pay for viable transit alternatives.

 

[PaulChinetti]

I finally got a hold of someone with the For Transit crowd. If you want a sign try 

[email protected]

She said they got some more in today. 

[PaulChinetti]

 Transit for Nashville has started tweeting out these today I think they’re pretty helpful, short and to the point. 

[jmtunafish]

6 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

 Transit for Nashville has started tweeting out these today I think they’re pretty helpful, short and to the point. 

Ugh.  Here we go again.  Why bring "Koch brothers" into this?  Or "leaders in fake news"?  One of the reasons I like David Briley's thing is that he didn't make this into a left vs. right issue.  I'm a conservative who believes in the freedom of choice and the evils of a bloated and overreaching federal government.  If I weren't already a supporter of this, I'd look at the above posters and would be against it just to spite their cavalier use of "Koch brothers" and "fake news" as if the Koch brothers are the only ones out there making fake news.  Transit for Nashville is clearly not interested in gaining support from conservatives.  Besides, "Highways are controlled by the federal government" isn't entirely true, either. 

[MidTenn1]

Yeah....even though I don't live in Metro Nashville, I think the transit plan is important and deserves support and the tax plan should be passed. Having said that, the above tweet doesn't help the cause at all.  Just a few highways are built and maintained with Federal monies as most highways in Nashville are either State highways or locally 'controlled'.

They need to stick to providing accurate positive information that counters the misinformation being presented by the opposition and not turn this into a shouting match of political invectives.