The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[PaulChinetti]

Scrolling through various hashtags on twitter, it seems to be about 50ish/50ish. A SURPRISING number of young looking people are against the transit plan. 

I am beyond flabbergasted at what is currently happening.

[tragenvol]

2 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

If this fails I'm putting a for sale sign in Barry's front yard. 

Need any help?

[WebberThomas4]

46 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Scrolling through various hashtags on twitter, it seems to be about 50ish/50ish. A SURPRISING number of young looking people are against the transit plan. 

I am beyond flabbergasted at what is currently happening.

It’s twitter and anyone, regardless of location, can vote, but this is encouraging.

[PaulChinetti]

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/why-nashvilles-transit-plan-relies-contentious-sales-tax-increase#stream/0

This is the best way I've heard the sales tax increase described. 

"If the referendum passes, then for the next four years, for every $100 spent on taxable goods, consumers would pay an extra 50 cents. Imagine a grocery bill ticking up from $100 to $100.50.

Starting in 2023, with a second increase, that would mean spending an extra $1 on every $100 of spending."

[volsfanwill]

55 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Scrolling through various hashtags on twitter, it seems to be about 50ish/50ish. A SURPRISING number of young looking people are against the transit plan. 

I am beyond flabbergasted at what is currently happening.

Me too. Some very intelligent people I know, some of whom have lived in cities with transit said they voted no. And I can't fathom why. 

7 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/why-nashvilles-transit-plan-relies-contentious-sales-tax-increase#stream/0

This is the best way I've heard the sales tax increase described. 

"If the referendum passes, then for the next four years, for every $100 spent on taxable goods, consumers would pay an extra 50 cents. Imagine a grocery bill ticking up from $100 to $100.50.

Starting in 2023, with a second increase, that would mean spending an extra $1 on every $100 of spending."

That is the way I have been resorting to describe  it. But people are convinced that we can just expand roads. 

[samsonh]

4 minutes ago, volsfanwill said:

Me too. Some very intelligent people I know, some of whom have lived in cities with transit said they voted no. And I can't fathom why. 

That is the way I have been resorting to describe  it. But people are convinced that we can just expand roads. 

Ask them how we pay for these road expansions? Do the automated flying taxis do all the work?

[MagicPotato]

13 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Ask them how we pay for these road expansions? Do the automated flying taxis do all the work?

Regardless, they believe that upgrading roads equates to less taxes compared to light rail. I'm not entirely sure, but having the long term construction to upgrade roads probably out weighs it a bit. At least for light rail it can be built on areas where there's no traffic going through, unlike roads.  Which I think can make the construction longer compared to light rail.  If there needs to be construction with light rail in connection with roads, it's just for intersections.  Then again for light rail I guess if houses/buildings are in the way then you'll have to demolish  them or make a path around them. That's still better than trying to do construction on an interstate/highway, because upgrading a road where there's a lot of traffic can be a pain. Like that one road in la vergne that they're still trying to upgrade. It's been like a decade or more and it's still going on. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by MagicPotato

[Pdt2f]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

Scrolling through various hashtags on twitter, it seems to be about 50ish/50ish. A SURPRISING number of young looking people are against the transit plan. 

I am beyond flabbergasted at what is currently happening.

I’ve talked to quite a few younger people who are against the plan. I’ve done my best to fix misunderstandings but most of them don’t seem to want it. Weirdly the biggest answer I’ve gotten from them as far as why they’re opposed was the logistics of the light rail construction. They weren’t looking forward to the construction headache, and that was reason enough for them to be against the entire plan. 

[MagicPotato]

2 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

I’ve talked to quite a few younger people who are against the plan. I’ve done my best to fix misunderstandings but most of them don’t seem to want it. Weirdly the biggest answer I’ve gotten from them as far as why they’re opposed was the logistics of the light rail construction. They weren’t looking forward to the construction headache, and that was reason enough for them to be against the entire plan. 

And another 5 to 10 years of highway/interstate construction is any better? 

[Pdt2f]

6 minutes ago, MagicPotato said:

And another 5 to 10 years of highway/interstate construction is any better? 

Believe me, I’ve talked myself hoarse trying to explain that, along with the expense and socially catestrophic outcome of just adding endless lanes to roads. I honestly think they’d want roads like Franklin pike and Gallatin to have like 10 lanes. 

[henburg]

12 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

I’ve talked to quite a few younger people who are against the plan. I’ve done my best to fix misunderstandings but most of them don’t seem to want it. Weirdly the biggest answer I’ve gotten from them as far as why they’re opposed was the logistics of the light rail construction. They weren’t looking forward to the construction headache, and that was reason enough for them to be against the entire plan. 

This whole process has really bummed me out as a resident of this city. Whenever I talk to my friends and tell them why I think they should vote yes, I hear very similar answers. People want traffic to be fixed instantly, yet clearly aren't willing to be patient and take the steps necessary to do so. I hope I am proven wrong, but I can't help but feel very pessimistic about Nashville's transit future. 

[MagicPotato]

 

[Dale]

1 hour ago, samsonh said:

Well that is a reason. Also they have one major road and they keep expanding further and further out. It is a disaster and literally worse every time I go there, which is about once a month. 

All true, I suppose. I merely meant to point out that young people are clearly not repelled by the thought of moving to a car-dependent and increasingly congested metropolis ... provided jobs and perhaps culture. Neither are they smitten with things like light rail as urban purists are. They are not, in fact, urban purists. They're your Dad and Mom with Apple 8's.

I would hope that my Nashville friends here would take solace, in the Austin experience, should the referendum fail. Should the referendum fail, almost nobody considering a move to Nashville will pull the plug. Nashville will continue to be an "It City" and, more than likely, some transit improvements will materialize.

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

All true, I suppose. I merely meant to point out that young people are clearly not repelled by the thought of moving to a car-dependent and increasingly congested metropolis ... provided jobs and perhaps culture. Neither are they smitten with things like light rail as urban purists are. They are not, in fact, urban purists. They're your Dad and Mom with Apple 8's.

I would hope that my Nashville friends here would take solace, in the Austin experience, should the referendum fail. Should the referendum fail, almost nobody considering a move to Nashville will pull the plug. Nashville will continue to be an "It City" and, more than likely, some transit improvements will materialize.

My experience is different. People in Austin would love to be in downtown or close to it(Mueller) but it is too expensive. So they move to Round Rock or near the Domain (which is simply attempt at urban-ism) and come in town less frequently.  They are most certainly not your mom and dad with iPhone 8s (Apple has many different products). But they live where they can afford. They move to Austin because it is a city with jobs, great food, and a welcoming vibe. 

 

Dale, I have to ask. How old are you and have you ever been to Austin?

[Dale]

5 minutes ago, samsonh said:

My experience is different. People in Austin would love to be in downtown or close to it(Mueller) but it is too expensive. So they move to Round Rock or near the Domain (which is simply attempt at urban-ism) and come in town less frequently.  They are most certainly not your mom and dad with iPhone 8s (Apple has many different products). But they live where they can afford. They move to Austin because it is a city with jobs, great food, and a welcoming vibe. 

 

Dale, I have to ask. How old are you and have you ever been to Austin?

Again, my principal aim here is to encourage. Yes, I have been to Austin. Yes, I am an older guy, an older guy who thinks it would be cool to live downtown, but live where I can afford to live. And like my similarly situated, younger counterparts, are not unhappy about it.

[samsonh]

Just now, Dale said:

Again, my principal aim here is to encourage. Yes, I have been to Austin. Yes, I am an older guy, an older guy who thinks it would be cool to live downtown, but live where I can afford to live. And like my similarly situated, younger counterparts, are not unhappy about it.

I understand, I was trying to emphasize that a much larger part of the younger generation does seek to live in an urban environment, they would like to avoid the isolation that much of suburbia brings. Agreed that the death of this bill is not the end of Nashville, it will just make it tougher for those in the outlying areas to get around the city as quickly as they otherwise would with the transit bill.

 

The gentrification of many older neighborhoods in town is driven by the desires of millennials to be closer to restaurants/entertainment/neighbors etc.  A lot of these millennials make a lot of money and that trend will continue. 

 

Here is an interesting citylab article on this topic from 2017:

"With each passing year, 25- to 34-year-olds, especially those with a four-year college degree or more education, are more likely to live in close-in urban neighborhoods than other Americans."

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/01/flood-tide-not-ebb-tide-for-young-adults-in-cities/514283/

[Dale]

I can believe that younger adults prefer to live closer, whereas many older adults often prefer to live farther out.

Interestingly, here in Charlotte we have two light rail lines and two streetcar lines to serve the closer-in populace. We have our Urbanist's feathers-in-the-cap.

And arguably, closer-in traffic is more of a headache than suburban traffic. It's almost as if clamor and congestion are the prices younger adults are willing to pay to live closer to each other.

 

 

[Rockatansky]

15 hours ago, Buildtall said:

 I just wonder if the northern half will ever happen.

No. Improvements to SR109 have taken the place of 840 N.

13 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

build something in between 440 and 840 eventually.

I think WillCo has too much political clout for this to ever happen. $.02.

[bigeasy]

2 hours ago, volsfanwill said:

Me too. Some very intelligent people I know, some of whom have lived in cities with transit said they voted no. And I can't fathom why. 

I have also talked to some people who I would consider intelligent and about half of them said they were going to vote no because it wouldn't help them. I HATE hearing that as a justification. I have a feeling lots of people are thinking this way.

I don't think I know of one person in my family/friend group that is pro-transit, which is sad. One person even brought up the soil issue, so clearly the fear technique by using the Corvette museum has worked on some.

[samsonh]

8 minutes ago, Dale said:

I can believe that younger adults prefer to live closer, whereas many older adults often prefer to live farther out.

Interestingly, here in Charlotte we have two light rail lines and two streetcar lines to serve the closer-in populace. We have our Urbanist's feathers-in-the-cap.

And arguably, closer-in traffic is more of a headache than suburban traffic. It's almost as if clamor and congestion are the prices younger adults are willing to pay to live closer to each other.

 

 

I would say you are right that traffic is worse closer in to the core. But those living close to the core don't have to travel far. Whereas those in far out suburbs often to travel to the core for their jobs and deal with traffic in the core and the interstate crawl on the way home. 

[smeagolsfree]

6 hours ago, Dale said:

The reason Austin traffic is going from bad to worse is that the whole world wants to move to Austin regardless the traffic.

It looks as if the same will be happening here but not quiet as many people.

[BnaBreaker]

I was hopeful in the beginning that this would pass, but I think Nashville right now is still just too culturally conservative to fully embrace it's new status as a large metropolis.  I have no doubt that the city will pass a mass transit plan sooner or later.  I just hope the people don't come around so late that they'll have shot themselves in their own foot at that point and killed Nashville's momentum through inaction.  Nashville will be okay.  For now.  It still isn't quite urban or dense enough to the point that it will be crippled without adequate transportation alternatives.  But that day is coming, and we had better hope that when it does, we will have gotten out in front of it rather than desperately trying to play catch-up.

Am I trying to brace myself for disappointment later this evening?  You bet your ass I am, but it seems all the signs are pointing to the forces of dishonest out-of-town fossil fuel billionaires winning out once again.  When are we going to stop listening to these people?  

Edited May 1, 2018 by BnaBreaker

[Dale]

15 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

It looks as if the same will be happening here but not quiet as many people.

Interestingly, Austin has just been named U.S. News and World Reports "Most Livable City" two years running. And believe it or not, Austin ranked higher in "work-life balance" than in jobs.

[smeagolsfree]

I've been to Austin and it is great and there are so many similarities between Austin and Nashville its sort of WEIRD. oh that's  Austin Weird. Traffic is similar. the downtowns are similar as far as the country music aspect. State Capitols, SOCO and Main street in East Nashville very similar.

[samsonh]

16 minutes ago, Dale said:

Interestingly, Austin has just been named U.S. News and World Reports "Most Livable City" two years running. And believe it or not, Austin ranked higher in "work-life balance" than in jobs.

No one is saying it is not a great place! Just that it requires a lot of money to live in an area you would want to be.  Downtown and surrounding areas are much more expensive their because of tech money.