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The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread


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As I suspected. Eliminate the tunnel, switch all light rail to brt, add a few more brt lines, and allow uberpool and  lyft line to lease access to the dedicated lanes. In neighborhoods concerned about gentrification, forget about brt and put in frequent traditional bus service. Plan would pass with 60-70%.

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Just now, 12Mouth said:

As I suspected. Eliminate the tunnel, switch all light rail to brt, add a few more brt lines, and allow uberpool and  lyft line to lease access to the dedicated lanes. In neighborhoods concerned about gentrification, forget about brt and put in frequent traditional bus service. Plan would pass with 60-70%.

Using lyft and uber will save a lot of money compared to metro city buses. 

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I know you emotions are high right now, but I think your blame is misdirected.

"The Nashville for Transit coalition, aided by a chamber-aligned political action committee, has vastly outspent their opponents, raising nearly $2.9 million for the campaign. It's allowed the pro-side to flex greater muscle on television with advertising over NoTax4Tracks, a transit opposition PAC, which raised about $1.2 million.

But the money from opponents has come under fire.

More than three-fourths of campaign dollars raised by NoTax4Tracks came from a single 501 (c)4 organization, Smarter Nashville Inc., which by law does not have to release its donors. Union groups that back the transit plan staged a protest last week with a giant inflatable rat outside Beaman Automotive, whose CEO Lea Beaman is tied to the opposition. "

 

3 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

You're obviously free to draw your own conclusions, but I consider a multi-million dollar dark money disinformation campaign to be far more significant than any one vote.

 

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Unfortunate! But remember... when things get bad enough you guys will find a solution. In the meantime, you're still (by far) the most fun... most interesting... least bland large city in The South!  You are like Austin in so many ways... but you're better. Keep it up! You'll find a solution.

Distant observations.

1. Pro transit should have avoided the whole tunnel segment of the plan. I think that the folks in the outlying areas of the county saw that as a waste.

2. Pro transit should have tied the argument to "if this passes, we're still in the running for Amazon et.al." vs. "if this does not pass, then we're out."  No guarantees if this had passed, but the certainty of not being chosen w/o something specified in their search criteria should have been underscored. That might have brought out more "pro" voters and may have even persuaded some people on the fence. Remember... fully 1/3 of the "no" voters were really just voting for the status quo.

3. The routes for the proposed LRT needed to be stripped down to a more central (Phase 1) location, but balanced by (an overweight) of more rapid transit BRT/interstate lanes. 

4. Someone remarked on the number of Democratic voters. Remember, Davidson County is still heavily populated by what used to be called "Yellow Dog" (aka conservative) Democrats. 

Perhaps some lessons for any future effort. But right now... the powers that be need to digest these results. 

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Briley will win a 15 month term. I don't like him but he will. I think he needs to get it on the ballot again in 1 year.   Here are the 3 options I see. 

1.  Spend 12 months explaining the plan to everyone. Vote for the exact same plan again. But with a better education campaign and adjust for 1 more year of inflation. (adjustment for inflation will show people that it gets more expensive over time) 

2. 75% plan. Scale it back a tad. Shorten each lrt line a bit, maybe eliminate one all together. But give 100% of the original plan to everything else. So people see how comprehensive it is. 

3. 50%plan. Go all in on all except light rail. Build the Gallatin Pike to TSU. With the understanding that after implementation another vote will be required to expand once the concept is proven. 

Edited by volsfanwill
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Just now, MLBrumby said:

If that was in response to me... where was the Democrat running in the transit vote? 

it was, but when you said

 

Davidson County is still heavily populated by what used to be called "Yellow Dog" (aka conservative) Democrats. 

 

it was a misuse of the term. I'm sure there's a term for conservative Democrats, but Yellow Dog isn't it.

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3 minutes ago, volsfanwill said:

Briley will win a 15 month term. I don't like him but he will. I think he needs to get it on the ballot again in 1 year.   Here are the 3 options I see. 

1.  Spend 12 months expat the plan to everyone. Vote for the exact same plan again. But with a better education campaign and a dust for 1 more year of inflation. (adjustment for inflation will show people that it gets more extrovert time) 

2. 75% plan. Scale it back a tad. Shorten each lrt line a bit, maybe eliminate one all together. But give 100% of the original plan to everything else. So people see how comprehensive it is. 

3. 50%plan. Go all in on all except light rail. Build the Gallatin Pike to TSU. With the understanding that after implementation another vote will be ret to expand once the concept is proven. 

I know Briley personally, and I've never been impressed. He's weak (and other things I won't go into). He's certainly not the right mayor for a "It City". 

Interestingly, I know David Fox too. David would have made a fantastic mayor. For those who were afraid he was conservative... he's not. He's just fiscally responsible.  He is also an honorable man. Would he have gotten behind a transit plan like this? Probably not. However, he might have supported it if the case had been made by responsible Metro Council members. 

If you live in The South... you know the Yellow Dog tag was applied to people who were "born Democrat" (as I was).  And (yes) who voted mindlessly and always for THE DEMOCRAT.  I was addressing someone who was wondering why more people didn't vote for this because Davidson is heavily Democrat. I was merely making the distinction that a Yellow Dog would have voted for a Democrat (as Davidson County Democrats do), but this was NOT a Democrat vs. Republican issue. At least on the ballot it wasn't. 

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4 minutes ago, e-dub said:

it was, but when you said

 

 

 

 

it was a misuse of the term. I'm sure there's a term for conservative Democrats, but Yellow Dog isn't it.

Blue dog democrats. Clinton and Gore were blue dogs in the ‘90s, Jim Cooper still technically is (on fiscal matters, not obviously social matters).  

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I will not belabor the point, however I think we will find it was not blue dog democrats who scuttled this plan (not many left in Nashville) ...it was the black vote.

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Blue Dog is the term used by national media... but Blue Dog = Yellow Dog.  Yellow was the color used in The South because a yellow dog is a real thing. The Blue Dog name arose later. First used in the 1990s. I'm a traditionalist... I say "Yellow". 

Trust me folks. I am very involved in state politics. I have Democrat (Yellow Dog) clients... and Republican clients. 

Just now, nashville_bound said:

I will not belabor the point, however I think we will find it was not blue dog democrats who scuttled this plan (not many left in Nashville) ...it was the black vote.

Don't know that to be the case... but I suspected it was. My father in law is black. And while he's from Houston, he votes on very similar lines. I asked him a few weeks ago what he thought about the transit vote in Nashville. He didn't know much, but he asked... "What will my people get in the deal?" 

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I did enjoy this plan but I feel the next draft or plan should be less ambitious (meaning just create the first step of a larger transit plan). So basically that could be building two or three light rail lines in the next 7 years and then heavily investing in bus routes or BRT, or maybe investing in the Music city Star heavy rail instead of light rail. Basically a 'one step at a time' strategy when introducing plans I feel would be more welcoming to people, as taxes would be lower temporarily at least amongst other things that could be attractive to even conservative voters.

 

However I am dissapointed by the short-sightedness of those who voted against this plan. Although I couldn't care less whether or not Amazon comes to town (because Nashville seems to be doing perfectly fine without them already, especially now with Alliance Bernstein), a light rail line to the airport and at least within downtown would be very convenient and useful. Oh well, guess I won't take the transit in London for granted anymore lol  

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Everyone will now be looking for the next plan. They will look to new tech such as self driving cars as a solution. That does nothing to take the cars off the streets. 

As I said before the blame is partly on Barry for screwing up, and Briley for not using the Bully pulpit he had. But the real reason it failed was it was a bad plan. It never came out and smacked of something that was great, but the killer was the tunnel. That price tag for a mile and a half was not thought through and I never liked it.

The other thing that hurt it was it was set in stone. No changes could be made. The last thing that hurt it was what I told folks at the start. Too much. It needed to start with one section and get that done and learn from your failures and improve the next segment.

Just tell the folks that voted against to sit in traffic and roast in the sun.

The heads are saying there needs to be a regional plan and others say it needs to concentrate on the neighborhoods to help everyone. Well a regional plan is not going to work without heavy involvment from the state. Thats not going to happen because of the bumpkins from Ripley and Blountville, cause its fur the big citi. (Said In a country accent). I can make fun of them because I use to live in the back woods of Tennessee.

Every neighborhood in Nashville neither needs nor wants mass transit. Buses would be a waste of money in many areas of town as there would be no ridership because they are slow and cumbersome. You have to do the work on the core first. The public is ignorant as to how mass transt works and is supposed to work and Metro didnt do much to help things .

By the way, whatever chance that Amazon was going to move the H2Q here is dead as a ghost in a cemetary. Like we had a shot to start with. Just glad we were on the list.

Ill just shut up and concentrate on the next thing that comes along but it will not be transit for a while.

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39 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

Hold my beer. :tw_glasses:
 

 

Yeah I mean we knew you felt that way but it’s good to see it. Government is about doing what’s best for the whole. It exists for a reason. I hope you help with the dialogue moving forward.

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It is a joke...you know levity?

Your statement on what government is for is far too ambiguous for me to get onboard. Define 'doing', define 'best', define 'whole'. Lots of interpretations...may of them controversial.

As one of the original UP posters on the board I do not need to defend my contributions.... my opinions are well-informed and I would say very prescient. Feel free to agree or disagree. 

 

9 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Yeah I mean we knew you felt that way but it’s good to see it. Government is about doing what’s best for the whole. It exists for a reason. I hope you help with the dialogue moving forward.

 

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Folks, I've told you before and I'll say it again. You cannot use existing connector streets to "plop down" light rail as that's how it would be seen by those who use those streets to commute in/out of downtown.  You have to have a phased in plan (not a bite too big to chew).. that includes LRT along unconnected (i.e. less used) streets, such as Grundy (or Hayes) Street from downtown to Midtown. Stay the heck off Charlotte and Broadway. Why? Because people will see that as disrupting their daily drive. Yes... I know! It's very short-sighted, but Davidson County voters are skeptics at heart. They really don't trust government. So bottom line: the plan must be reasonable (even gradual); affordable; and maybe (just maybe) involve a "reasonable" tax hike on someone (the other). As many here have said, this thing went down when its chief proponent Mayor Barry was suddenly deemed to be untrustworthy. Would it have passed if she had not been consumed by scandal?  We don't know for sure, but the chances of its passing were much greater before that happened. 

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