The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashvillwill]

I talked with Mayor Dean....he also thinks that we're going to have to have some form of dedicated revenue stream approved by a referendum...

Is he just saying that as a pipe-dream, or is proposing such a vote something that is actually on his agenda?

The FTA also doesn't like to fund street cars...

What do they have against street cars?

[monsoon]

What do they have against street cars?

They don't consider them to be cost effective over the standard city bus.

[franktown]

Is he just saying that as a pipe-dream, or is proposing such a vote something that is actually on his agenda?

It's on the table for the future; he wants Mass Transit, and he know that for it to be viable it needs to have a dedicated revenue stream. What he/I meant by the Federal funding was that if we don't fund its shortfall the Feds won't fund projects with us in the future... not them funding everything.

[jice]

I noticed on the way home from work today... the signs above the interstate that show traffic warnings and such... usually when there is an "air quality alert" they will say somethin like.. "air quality alert tomorrow, consider car pooling" or "air quality alert, make less trips"

But today... it said... "air quality alert, use public transit"

Interesting...

[jice]

TDOT offers to contribute $1 million toward Music City Star

... with some conditions, including management changes. Hopefully this will keep it running and improving in the future!

[uptownliving]

I'm curious to know if there are any actions being taken to increase ridership?

Such as advertising?

Adding additional frequency?

Are there any plans for TOD around the stations?

Or are they just trying to hang on at this point?

[ariesjow]

While I'm happy Nashville did something on the mass transit front, I think Music City Star was a short-sighted and misguided mess from the beginning. Almost as if TDOT and the RTA said "okay, we gave this mass transit thing a try. Maybe people will shut up about it." WRONG! They should have known that most people in places like Lebanon and Mt. Juliet wouldn't find it appealing to give up their gas guzzlers for a slow ride into town with no way to get around once there. The commute from that part of the metro isn't a challenge anyway. Again, short-sightedness run amuck. The easy and cheap way out rarely works. I don't see MCS getting much better.

Quite honestly, I would have MUCH preferred if TDOT and RTA would have had the commitment that Charlotte had a while ago starting out a LRT line from downtown through Midtown or through East Nashville to Madison as (1) the density to make such a line a success is already present in these areas and (2) the people in those areas are of the mindset to actually utilized an efficient mass transit system if available. The approach should have been to get the ball rolling by improving (not slashing) the bus system, starting a LRT or BRT line in the core where it's more likely to be utilized from the start, then expanding out to the satelite towns once mass transit became established in the city. I don't think the federal funds are there to implement a plan like that at the moment so we may have missed our window for a while barring some upswing in the next few years.

I don't expect us to turn into a strong civic-minded, urban city like Portland overnight but I would love if we quit half-assing major civic projects just to show "we're on the move." People already know Nashville is on the move; we need to make commitment statements. The Schermerhorn was a commitment statement. The Gulch is a commitment statement. The Music City Center should be a commitment statement. Burying our hideous power lines would be a commitment statement. Redeveloping the East Bank and riverfront could be a commitment statement. Music City Star is a mere whimper of appeasement.

Edited July 17, 2008 by ariesjow

[nashvylle]

Couldn't agree with you more Ariesjow. According to Franktown, it seems like Karl Dean is committed to public transportation, and would be open to having a referendum for a .5 cent tax increase set up for public transportation.

Honestly, we need to focus on transportation in the built environment of Nashville, and I think a streetcar system within downtown, SOBRO, and midtown would work and catalyze even more residential and commercial development.

[jice]

Couldn't agree with you more Ariesjow. According to Franktown, it seems like Karl Dean is committed to public transportation, and would be open to having a referendum for a .5 cent tax increase set up for public transportation.

Honestly, we need to focus on transportation in the built environment of Nashville, and I think a streetcar system within downtown, SOBRO, and midtown would work and catalyze even more residential and commercial development.

I agree with Ariesjow as well.. but we can't really do much about it now other than look to the future.

As for Mayor Dean.. I saw a blurb last night on Fox17's news about Mayor Dean "trading in" his suv for a MTA bus ticket.. anyone catch that? I didn't see the full story. I suppose he's planning to ride the bus to work now.. which makes sense, if he is serious about his support of public transit.

[franktown]

Yeah... he told me that they're about to announce that all Metro employees are getting bus cards that allow them to ride to work for free, and to show his support he's going to ride the bus for a little bit (I think he said a week).

[nashvillwill]

Yeah... he told me that they're about to announce that all Metro employees are getting bus cards that allow them to ride to work for free, and to show his support he's going to ride the bus for a little bit (I think he said a week).

A little weak, if you ask me, on Dean's part. I think a bigger statement(instead of riding for one week straight), would be for him to commit to riding MTA at least 1 day EVERY week.

Couldn't agree with you more Ariesjow. According to Franktown, it seems like Karl Dean is committed to public transportation, and would be open to having a referendum for a .5 cent tax increase set up for public transportation.

Just to clarify, i don't think he ever mentioned any specific revenue source. No offense nashvylle, but i think you pieced together earlier posts. Indeed, Dean was quoted to say he is considering a referendum, but the .5 cent sales tax figure was from another post about North Carolina. Again, just trying to clarify, no offense intended.

[monsoon]

.... I don't think the federal funds are there to implement a plan like that at the moment so we may have missed our window for a while barring some upswing in the next few years. ....

This situation may be changing somewhat. See this article. I don't expect anything to happen this year on this because Bush has said that he would veto such bills but a new administration might be more accepting of the need for mass transit in American cities.

from that article

[jice]

This situation may be changing somewhat. See this article. I don't expect anything to happen this year on this because Bush has said that he would veto such bills but a new administration might be more accepting of the need for mass transit in American cities.

Sounds VERY promising.. hopefully a new administration would support it!

[bigcitymike]

I don't feel the MCS is a failure. Something had to start somewhere. Ya gotta have spark to have fire. It was created within a fairly tight budget and really in terms of rail, It was done on the cheap.

IMO the bigger issue is not getting the suburbs into town, (yeah that is a issue) but rather how you get around once your here. LTR not BRT is what's needed. Yeah it $$$. Lots of $$$. But guess what? It gets more costly as time goes on. It isn't going getting any cheaper and current projections show Middle TN and TN in general gaining in population.

I haven't read of any LTR failures. Are there any?

While it's a bit out of my way, I could take the MCS in to work. But I still need to get to work. Being on lower braodway is only 3/4 of the way for me. I couldn't tell you for the life of me how to get to music row once i'm in town. I looked around at a few sites, tried the route planner. After spending about 15 minutes I gave up. So that is my other point, they have failed to market the existing system. Then again maybe it sucks so bad, they haven't failed marketing it, it's just that bad. (bus system)

[jice]

While it's a bit out of my way, I could take the MCS in to work. But I still need to get to work. Being on lower braodway is only 3/4 of the way for me. I couldn't tell you for the life of me how to get to music row once i'm in town. I looked around at a few sites, tried the route planner. After spending about 15 minutes I gave up. So that is my other point, they have failed to market the existing system. Then again maybe it sucks so bad, they haven't failed marketing it, it's just that bad. (bus system)

In your case.. you may be able to use the connecting route that goes to the West End area, and at least get close to where you need to be..

http://www.musiccitystar.org/connectingbuses.html

But overall, totally agree with you about finding your way around once you get here.. its sad.

[nashvylle]

I would love for Nashville to be very innovative and (once the light-rail/streetcar system is set up within Davidson County) be one of the first in the country to build this.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...EWS01/808120361

[jice]

I would love for Nashville to be very innovative and (once the light-rail/streetcar system is set up within Davidson County) be one of the first in the country to build this.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...EWS01/808120361

No doubt, that would be awesome..

I especially like the vision of expanding it up to Chicago! Could you imagine.. this would probably pass through my hometown in IL

[satalac]

the high speed rail would be great, but only IF it had light rail connected to it so to get around middle tn easier. if not, nashville would just be a stopover. i realize that this would cost even more, but hey, if you're going to do it, might at well go all out.

[jice]

^ I agree..

and also.. the proposal of this high speed rail line kindof shows that a less expensive option such as BRT would be better for the commuter line to M'boro at this time, IMO

Edited August 13, 2008 by jice

[FriendlyFlier]

This is such a pipedream...don't get me wrong I'd love to see it, but will it ever realistically happen? No one rides the star for $8 why would anyone pay $75 to get to Chattanooga?

[monsoon]

..... No one rides the star for $8 ...

I was under the impression they had a ridership around 1,000/day.

[FriendlyFlier]

Actually, monsoon, a June article about the Star's failing income and ridership showed that the latest ridership numbers were 788 in May 2008 and 983 in June 2008, http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/806260348, Be sure and check out the PDF that shows budgeted vs. actual figures. Dean wants to keep the Star running so Nashville doesn't have to write a bad check for 30 million dollars of federal investment to be paid back. I honestly believe that people think that Nashville is a lot bigger than it actually is. There is a lack of density and the Star is not feasible yet.

[monsoon]

^I have seen that article before. While I don't dispute the ridership numbers the article as written suggests the train should be a profit making enterprise, which of course, it isn't. And because it has jumped to those conclusions it can then imply the train is a failure. BTW, this is the same paper that also did an article on maglev (posted above) and didn't question the million dollars wasted on that study when the only tangible result was "well we cant build it because it cost too much". It's a lack of proper and consistent journalism that shouldn't be used as the judge for good transit policy.

Now one could argue the merits of spending $30M to provide a transit system that has a ridership of slightly less than a $1000/day, but which has the potential to grow.

[satalac]

I honestly believe that people think that Nashville is a lot bigger than it actually is. There is a lack of density and the Star is not feasible yet.

if nashville was dense, then the need for the music city star wouldn't be there. the point of this train is to move people from the outlying areas into town. just take a look at the massive amounts of traffic on I24 during rush hour. it's the dependence of personal transportation that has made the Star not as successful as it should be. look at how ridership jumped 200 riders in one month due to gas prices. it's not from lack of density, it's from lack of people wanting to park their cars.

[FriendlyFlier]

So Nashville's population density has nothing to do with the problem? Cities like Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta have expanding transit systems due to volume. Nashville doesn't have the volume of people to use the rail (in my opinion). I agree that people are too dependent on their cars in this city and would like to see that change, but I also believe that a gradual population increase in general will do the most for public transportation in Nashville.