The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[PaulChinetti]

So 440 is only going to get another lane in some places? Is there a map floating around out there of what is going to change, I couldn't seem to find anything definitive.  

[SoundScan]

Correct. It's already three lanes wide between I24 and I65, and in various sections between I65 and I40. This project is just filling in the gaps.

[PruneTracy]

29 minutes ago, SoundScan said:

It appears the cost/total contract is actually $223.7M:

The figure shown is an A+B cost that is used to score the time required to complete the project. "A" is the actual construction cost of the project, and "B" is a cost value assigned to the number of days the bidder quotes as needed to finish the project.

For the I-440 D/B, the time value was assigned at $100,000 per calendar day. Kiewit is proposing to finish the job in 708 calendar days, hence the $70.8 million "B" cost that is tacked on to the $152.9 million "A" cost.

The "B" cost is not paid out to the contractor, but has to be shown in the summary of bids to identify the low bidder. You can see a breakdown of the bids here:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/design-build_projects/i-440/Summary of Bids I440.pdf

And the contract books that specify the time cost (as well as costs for liquidated damages if the contractor doesn't finish on time) here:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/design-build_projects/i-440/I-440 Final RFP (Addendums Incorporated) 7-5-18.pdf

33 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

So 440 is only going to get another lane in some places? Is there a map floating around out there of what is going to change, I couldn't seem to find anything definitive.  

33 minutes ago, SoundScan said:

Correct. It's already three lanes wide between I24 and I65, and in various sections between I65 and I40. This project is just filling in the gaps.

Not exactly. The additional lane between interchanges is an auxiliary lane that is technically only used for entering/exiting traffic. Think of it as an acceleration lane you would typically see at an interchange ramp that just turns into a deceleration lane for the next ramp. It doesn't count as a travel lane.

The project adds an additional travel lane in each direction throughout the entire length (except for eastbound between Nolensville Road and Interstate 24, which was already widened a few years ago). There will be a minimum of six travel lanes, plus the auxiliary lanes that currently exist between some interchanges, so in some areas it will be "eight" lanes. This presentation from the public meeting has more info:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/region-3-documents/i-440/I-440 Public Meeting Presentation 071018.pptx

 

[SoundScan]

Thanks for the additional insight, and that deck describes the project clearly. So, $20M per-mile. However, I440 westbound from I24 to I65 is definitively three travel lanes as well, but I assume will also receive an auxiliary lane between interchanges for merging? Regardless, there is no capacity increase in that corridor so this project does little or nothing to ease congestion on the route. 

[Jamie Hall]

Well dangit, I've been enjoying the smoother ride on I-440 since TDoT repaved the worst parts a few weeks ago. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

[PruneTracy]

2 hours ago, Jamie Hall said:

Well dangit, I've been enjoying the smoother ride on I-440 since TDoT repaved the worst parts a few weeks ago. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

It wouldn't last very long on its own, probably not through the winter. TDOT simply overlaid the concrete with asphalt, the first freeze/thaw cycles should break it up.

I imagine the maintenance of the overlaid areas is going to cause issues for the contractor, especially since they probably won't really get into the resurfacing before winter hits. Hope it was accounted for in the bid.

[markhollin]

Bird Scooters may be back quicker that anyone thought.  Metro Council OK's pilot program:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/08/08/ready-for-landing-bird-clears-critical-hurdle-as.html

The full bill is here:

https://www.nashville.gov/Metro-Clerk/Legislative/Ordinances/Details/7d2cf076-b12c-4645-a118-b530577c5ee8/2015-2019/BL2018-1202.aspx

[AronG]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

Bird Scooters may be back quicker that anyone thought.  Metro Council OK's pilot program:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/08/08/ready-for-landing-bird-clears-critical-hurdle-as.html

The full bill is here:

https://www.nashville.gov/Metro-Clerk/Legislative/Ordinances/Details/7d2cf076-b12c-4645-a118-b530577c5ee8/2015-2019/BL2018-1202.aspx

The new regulation looks great IMO. It's a tough balancing act to factor in the needs of pedestrians and car traffic without squashing this thing in its infancy. They did a great job avoiding some of the knee-jerk over-regulation that some other cities have done. By all accounts, if this passes on Aug. 21 we're going to have multiple providers launching as soon as they can get a permit.

[12Mouth]

2 hours ago, AronG said:

The new regulation looks great IMO. It's a tough balancing act to factor in the needs of pedestrians and car traffic without squashing this thing in its infancy. They did a great job avoiding some of the knee-jerk over-regulation that some other cities have done. By all accounts, if this passes on Aug. 21 we're going to have multiple providers launching as soon as they can get a permit.

They removed the money going towards infrastructure from the bill, which I think is problematic. Bird has already agreed to pay $1/scooter per day for protected bike lanes in Portland. I wish we would ask the same:

https://www.oregonlive.com/roadreport/index.ssf/2018/08/bird_pledges_1_per_scooter_per.html

Unlike an administrative fee, this should theoretically be money that these companies are investing in their own future. Better infrastructure=more riders, less accidents (presumably cheaper insurance), less generally annoyed people in the city, etc. Unless I am missing something, we don't have anything like this in our bill.

Edited August 8, 2018 by 12Mouth

[PaulChinetti]

That sucks, I liked that part about them. It just makes sense, have an ongoing fund to paint more bike lines and protected lanes. Especially since these have to be on the street. 

[AronG]

1 hour ago, 12Mouth said:

They removed the money going towards infrastructure from the bill, which I think is problematic.

Totally agree that it's too bad they stripped that out. I will say that what it had before amounted to a borderline insignificant amount of money. I'm definitely hoping that once there's a dedicated constituency using these things it will open up the conversation around bike lanes. The problems to date haven't really been funding them, it's been about knee-jerk resistance to them (e.g. contentious updates to 8th S or Woodland St in East Nashville, or the rolled back bike lane on Cleveland St).

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

That sucks, I liked that part about them. It just makes sense, have an ongoing fund to paint more bike lines and protected lanes. Especially since these have to be on the street. 

FYI the regulation only prohibits riding on the sidewalks in “Business Districts”, defined as "an area of at least one full block of retail shops or offices fronting a sidewalk that has steady pedestrian traffic."

[titanhog]

Yeah...the problems with so many bike lanes around here are they are unprotected.  Heck...I was driving down Murfreesboro Rd the other day and they have a bike lane painted right against traffic going 45 mph...and grass from the curbside was growing into the bike lane and you can tell it's never been removed during mowing.  I wouldn't ride a bike in that lane and trust I'd live to tell about it.

[nashvillwill]

I left east Nashville at 5pm yesterday. Arrived in Brentwood at 6:40. All I could think about the whole time in gridlock traffic was our missed transit opportunity. 

12 miles @ 1:40= 7.2 mph.

Edited August 9, 2018 by nashvillwill

[AronG]

16 hours ago, titanhog said:

Yeah...the problems with so many bike lanes around here are they are unprotected.  Heck...I was driving down Murfreesboro Rd the other day and they have a bike lane painted right against traffic going 45 mph...and grass from the curbside was growing into the bike lane and you can tell it's never been removed during mowing.  I wouldn't ride a bike in that lane and trust I'd live to tell about it.

Totally agree that half of our bike lanes are currently just a gesture. Murf Rd, Charlotte Pike, Thomson Ln, KVB bridge... I can never decide whether they do more harm than good. On the down side, they are worthless as actual bike lanes, and people that aren't familiar with the bike network often conclude that since they never see anybody using them there's no interest in biking. On the positive side, though, they scoot traffic slightly away from the sidewalk, and they *can* serve as a gentle first step introducing biking infrastructure that can be built on later. As our development patterns get a little more dense and electric-assist bikes/scooters become more popular, it's not crazy to imagine a next step on those roads where we move both of the bike lanes to one side and do something like this:

Which is sort of "protected", doesn't require much more space, is relatively inexpensive, and is something that a few more people would feel comfortable actually using. Then, of course, the ultimate goal would be to build facilities that make biking a viable option for 90% of the population instead of 10%:

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by AronG

[markhollin]

Metro Government looking to privatize street meter parking downtown (over 2,000 spaces).  Could bing in $30 million in next 2 years plus revenue share.

More info at Nashville Post here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/metro-government/article/21017967/metro-seeks-to-privatize-parking

[12Mouth]

4 hours ago, markhollin said:

Metro Government looking to privatize street meter parking downtown (over 2,000 spaces).  Could bing in $30 million in next 2 years plus revenue share.

More info at Nashville Post here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/metro-government/article/21017967/metro-seeks-to-privatize-parking

Good news. They should do this throughout the entire USD.  I have seen cars sit in meters by Vanderbilt for literally months without being ticketed. Let's just end free parking everywhere is the USD and let the company put in meters (at their expense) on every street.

[donNdonelson2]

The city needs a plan to address street parking issues and this could be a good first step. But this move alone will not correct some serious problems with the current situation.

[claya91]

Utility aside. really looking forward to improvements in the overall visual aesthetics of 440.  Currently lots of overgrown  brush on the  sound barriers, rusty light poles, graffiti, center median landscaping is almost nill.  Really notice these things when you're only going 10  mph.

Edited August 16, 2018 by claya91

[donNdonelson2]

I think the rusted poles are by design

[donNdonelson2]

I think the rusted poles are by design

this explains the concept:

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/just-ask-us-why-do-power-poles-on-fish-hatch/article_e779cd7e-4610-5a2f-bea7-6e9835679115.html

[markhollin]

The Music City Star will open its 7th station at 1000 Gaston Park Dr. in Lebanon on Aug. 27th, with grand opening on Sept. 6th. 

Hamilton Springs has 396 apartments completed with about 35 more single-family homes and commercial space. Excavation work to build 260 apartment units for ages 55 and older is also underway, said Jack Bell of Horn Springs Development.

More at TheTennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/wilson/2018/08/15/music-city-star-station-open-aug-27-schedules-change/1000544002/

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.nashville.gov/Planning-Department/Transportation/Sidewalks.aspx

 

 

[PruneTracy]

12 hours ago, claya91 said:

Utility aside. really looking forward to improvements in the overall visual aesthetics of 440.  Currently lots of overgrown  brush on the  sound barriers, rusty light poles, graffiti, center median landscaping is almost nill.  Really notice these things when you're only going 10  mph.

 

11 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

I think the rusted poles are by design

this explains the concept:

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/just-ask-us-why-do-power-poles-on-fish-hatch/article_e779cd7e-4610-5a2f-bea7-6e9835679115.html

The poop brown lighting/ITS poles, guardrail, sign gantries, etc. are powder-coated (painted to be that color).

This was one of the stipulations in the environmental phase during the initial construction to make I-440 look more like a parkway. (You may notice the same on actual parkways, like Natchez Trace or roadways in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.)

The RFP for the design/build called for replacing all of the guardrail and lighting poles with galvanized steel (the gray color that you normally see on roadways). The sign gantries should be replaced as I think the remaining brown ones are all cantilever anyway. The RFP did not call for replacing the ITS poles but I would bet this is an oversight and will be done via change order during construction.

[timmay143]

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/08/13/sorry-bus-stops-round-1-matchup-nashville-vs-houston/

Pathetic.  Need to encourage more pedestrian and bike friendly structure and safety.  Would like to see heavy investment in these areas.

Edited August 17, 2018 by timmay143
Never happy with first release... :)

[LA_TN]

10 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

 

The poop brown lighting/ITS poles, guardrail, sign gantries, etc. are powder-coated (painted to be that color).

This was one of the stipulations in the environmental phase during the initial construction to make I-440 look more like a parkway. (You may notice the same on actual parkways, like Natchez Trace or roadways in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.)

The RFP for the design/build called for replacing all of the guardrail and lighting poles with galvanized steel (the gray color that you normally see on roadways). The sign gantries should be replaced as I think the remaining brown ones are all cantilever anyway. The RFP did not call for replacing the ITS poles but I would bet this is an oversight and will be done via change order during construction.

Boo. They should keep the brown and keep it the "Four Forty Parkway". That makes it unique