The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Tennessine]

As far as population is concerned, I disagree with the idea it can't be clean because NYC is so crowded. Part of that may be due to its age, but there are plenty of cities in other developed countries that have much cleaner subways than NYC's. We can't make too many excuses for how filthy some of our public services are. 

[Dale]

12 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

They are considering a 40 billion upgrade to NYC subway system, but how to pay for a system thats falling apart.

And the really sobering part: 20 billion just upgrade signaling.

 

[LA_TN]

20 hours ago, timmay143 said:

Not Nashville  but transportation related.  I thought it was a fun video with a cool perspective.  I've never been to NY or Chicago except the airports.

 

Why is it so slow? I have never seen a subway that slow 

[Dale]

1 minute ago, LA_TN said:

Why is it so slow? I have never seen a subway that slow 

It’s NYC. Welcome to the Third World.

 

[Tennessine]

34 minutes ago, Dale said:

It’s NYC. Welcome to the Third World.

 

To be fair, that's probably what they say about the whole South

[Dale]

7 minutes ago, nativetenn said:

To be fair, that's probably what they say about the whole South

Of course they do ... as they continue to move South bringing their third-world mindset with them.

[Neigeville2]

39 minutes ago, Dale said:

It’s NYC. Welcome to the Third World.

 

Don't you mean welcome to the center of international capitalism?  There are over 400,000 people in NYC with incomes over $1,000,000 per year.  And about 1/2 the population lives at or near the poverty line.  It's where we're all headed.

A big part of the subway's problem is that the city doesn't control it, it is entirely under control of the state government which doesn't care and only sees NYC as a source of revenue.  

[Dale]

2 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

Don't you mean welcome to the center of international capitalism?  There are over 400,000 people in NYC with incomes over $1,000,000 per year.  And about 1/2 the population lives at or near the poverty line.  It's where we're all headed.

A big part of the subway's problem is that the city doesn't control it, it is entirely under control of the state government which doesn't care and only sees NYC as a source of revenue.  

There is great wealth and opulence in Caracas too ...

https://harpers.org/archive/2018/07/the-death-of-new-york-city-gentrification/

 

[Tennessine]

22 minutes ago, Dale said:

Of course they do ... as they continue to move South bringing their third-world mindset with them.

 wat

[Dale]

Just now, nativetenn said:

 wat

Why ask wat ? I’m talking tax/spend/infantilize/impoverish. 

[Tennessine]

[Mr_Bond]

34 minutes ago, Dale said:

Of course they do ... as they continue to move South bringing their third-world mindset with them.

So true.  So, so true.

[markhollin]

Pleeeeeeeze...back on topic.  

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Pleeeeeeeze...back on topic.  

10-4

[AronG]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:09 PM, Dale said:

As an aside: two northern neighbors of Nashville that are doing very well without rail of any sort: Indy and Columbus. Both are glowing and growing (and on Amazon’s shortlist) and are nowhere near being crippled by traffic congestion. At last check, Indy had the shortest commute time in the nation, 22 minutes during rush hour.

We certainly have plenty of peer cities in the US that treat mass transit as an afterthought (although it's worth mentioning that Indianapolis and Columbus both seem to be well along on BRT with dedicated ROW). So as long as we stop at our current size, this shows that everything will be fine. On the other hand, cities that are a decade or three ahead of us in growth (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) are all scrambling belatedly to get real mass transit in place because their interstates are hopelessly bogged down in traffic.

I get that some people aren't into rail because they're opposed to too much government. But calling people fetishists so you can write off their view isn't going to change basic geometry. Cities with millions of people don't have room for everyone to bring a car with them for every single trip around town. Cities our size that ignore that fact end up spending enormous amounts of money and wasting huge areas of land on giant road projects and enormous parking facilities, all in pursuit of a transportation network that's just going to keep bogging down worse and worse with every additional resident. And in return they end up with an urban landscape that's a lot less pleasant to actually live in. If too many people in Nashville are triggered by rail in particular, I hope we can at least get serious about some of the other options that are able to move more people around in less space.

[samsonh]

33 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

Don't you mean welcome to the center of international capitalism?  There are over 400,000 people in NYC with incomes over $1,000,000 per year.  And about 1/2 the population lives at or near the poverty line.  It's where we're all headed.

A big part of the subway's problem is that the city doesn't control it, it is entirely under control of the state government which doesn't care and only sees NYC as a source of revenue.  

Yeah Dale claiming NYC is third world mind set is lol. NYC is dog eat dog, the very essence of capitalism. Political filters make some people see exactly what they want. 

[GreenHillsBoy]

32 minutes ago, Dale said:

Why ask wat ? I’m talking tax/spend/infantilize/impoverish. 

I can't even.....

[timmay143]

Oops...sorry...my bad!

[Mr_Bond]

1 hour ago, markhollin said:

Pleeeeeeeze...back on topic.  

[Dale]

1 hour ago, samsonh said:

Yeah Dale claiming NYC is third world mind set is lol. NYC is dog eat dog, the very essence of capitalism. Political filters make some people see exactly what they want. 

 

1 hour ago, GreenHillsBoy said:

I can't even.....

Apparently, you can’t. 

2 hours ago, samsonh said:

Yeah Dale claiming NYC is third world mind set is lol. NYC is dog eat dog, the very essence of capitalism. Political filters make some people see exactly what they want. 

I hear that they’re eating dogs in Venezuela.

[Dale]

2 hours ago, AronG said:

We certainly have plenty of peer cities in the US that treat mass transit as an afterthought (although it's worth mentioning that Indianapolis and Columbus both seem to be well along on BRT with dedicated ROW). So as long as we stop at our current size, this shows that everything will be fine. On the other hand, cities that are a decade or three ahead of us in growth (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) are all scrambling belatedly to get real mass transit in place because their interstates are hopelessly bogged down in traffic.

I get that some people aren't into rail because they're opposed to too much government. But calling people fetishists so you can write off their view isn't going to change basic geometry. Cities with millions of people don't have room for everyone to bring a car with them for every single trip around town. Cities our size that ignore that fact end up spending enormous amounts of money and wasting huge areas of land on giant road projects and enormous parking facilities, all in pursuit of a transportation network that's just going to keep bogging down worse and worse with every additional resident. And in return they end up with an urban landscape that's a lot less pleasant to actually live in. If too many people in Nashville are triggered by rail in particular, I hope we can at least get serious about some of the other options that are able to move more people around in less space.

Interestingly, light rail advocates typically backtrack and concede that light rail does not reduce congestion, but that it does achieve the two-fold objective of providing alternative transit and also stimulating development. 

Columbus’ BRT is not strictly BRT. It looks like BRT, but only has dedicated lanes in the CBD. I don’t think Houston-like congestion there is inevitable because it is constantly striving to improve what it already has - a flexible bus system. 

[samsonh]

21 minutes ago, Dale said:

 

Apparently, you can’t. 

I hear that they’re eating dogs in Venezuela.

Yet another effective Dale argument. 

[PruneTracy]

2 hours ago, nativetenn said:

I approve of this reference.

Also, this is me every time one of these threads goes political.

[titanhog]

Just now, PruneTracy said:

I approve of this reference.

Also, this is me every time one of these threads goes political.

Me too.  Political talk on any site other than a pure political site is a waste of typing.

[DJIII]

@nativetenn You're absolutely correct NYC's subway system is filthy.    Although it is highly functional and allows the city to have the signature characteristics that make people love it.   I think for tourists the filth translates into thinking it's more dangerous than it really is.  No fault of your own though.  I love NYC, lived there 7 years & moved to Nash from there 2y ago.  The subway system hasn't kept up with the general improvement in the city itself.  I used to ride at all hours of the night and never was really afraid.  Every so often you'd get a real lunatic with a knife or someone yelling hateful stuff, but even with that there's usually strength in numbers with the other riders.  I don't have the answers but you're correct that system needs a lot of help.      

Edited November 1, 2018 by DJIII